13.5 class ESC

[Gary]

What is the 2010 ruling for the 13.5 class. Before anyone quotes the rules I have read them. My question is this any changes as far as the new ESC's. Like the Mamba Max. I see they are singled out in the Mod class.

Electric Class Ruleshttp://www.dirtoval.com/images/dotted600.gif

Motors & Batteries

13.5 Spec: DirtOval.com SPEC 13.5 MOTORS and DirtOval.com SPEC Li-Po 3200mah batteries are the only motors and batteries legal for this class. Sensored speed controls only. Spec motors and batteries will be available for purchase by November 1, 2008.

Modified: All motor systems must meet ROAR Brushless specification with the exception of the MAMBA MAX system from Caslte Creations which will also be legal for modified. Sensored or sensorless speed controls are allowed in modified only. Race organizers may impose a minimum turn limit at their discretion. Any 7.4V LiPo battery will be legal for modified but batteries must use a quick release hobby grade connector for connection to the ESC ie:sermos, deans, traxxas.

[staatsbmxkid]

all speedos EXCEPT the AE black diamond are legal. in all classes of competition the mamba max is only allowed in mod because that is the sensorless version of their speed controls. the mamba max pro is the sensored version so it is legal in 13.5

[ROCKET283]

What is the rule for speedo at The Freeze? There is no Ban list in effect so does that me there is no speedo rule?

[signman501]

Freeze rules are same as DODC. Only banned esc is the AE in 13.5 spec classes. This is dirt racing. We ain't worried about going to fast like the Pan Car racers are. Faster is better if your out here racing.

[WYD]

All the speedos will be legal except as mentioned the Black Diamond. While other speedos caught up to the Black Diamond non of them cost over near as much.

The Tekin, Castle, LRP, and Novaks are probably the speedos that 99% of the racers will be using with the Tekin RS/RS PRo and Castle MMP being the two dominant escs at this time.

[ed gaines]

none of those are legal at maryville il, for 13.5 classes.

[curtisp]

none of those are legal at maryville il, for 13.5 classes.


If none of those are legal...what is legal...the good old mechanical speed control? :D

just curious...it's always interesting to compare rules...

[ed gaines]

If none of those are legal...what is legal...the good old mechanical speed control? :D

just curious...it's always interesting to compare rules...


lrp sphere/comp and novak. All I know its a joke.

[ed gaines]

I just seen where you said to (compare rules),and that should not be happening if the tracks use dodc rules.

[curtisp]

lrp sphere/comp and novak. All I know its a joke.


ahhhhh...I thought your reply was to the post above yours...
...The Tekin, Castle, LRP, and Novaks are probably the speedos that 99% of the racers will be using...

...so I was wondering what was left. :D

[Hitman35]

my opinion; novak esc's (execpt the kinetic) should be the only ones allowed for the spec class.

[DQbeck63]

Thats the reason why its a spec class though i thought was to make it a cost effective class where everyone was on an even playing field with the same equipment where it comes down to driver and setup..not lets see who has the deepest wallet and can throw the most money at it to win or run up front like the mod classes are:confused:....Just my opinion

[BigT]

Thats the reason why its a spec class though i thought was to make it a cost effective class where everyone was on an even playing field with the same equipment where it comes down to driver and setup..not lets see who has the deepest wallet and can throw the most money at it to win or run up front like the mod classes are:confused:....Just my opinion


Cost affective 159.00 for a Tekin RS esc is not a lot of money!! If they wanted to make it simple limit what software that goes in it.. ONLY allow the 200 software that away it limits some of the bells and whistles that comes with the 203 software..

[peanutsprint9]

What is the 2010 ruling for the 13.5 class. Before anyone quotes the rules I have read them. My question is this any changes as far as the new ESC's. Like the Mamba Max. I see they are singled out in the Mod class.

Electric Class Ruleshttp://www.dirtoval.com/images/dotted600.gif

Motors & Batteries

13.5 Spec: DirtOval.com SPEC 13.5 MOTORS and DirtOval.com SPEC Li-Po 3200mah batteries are the only motors and batteries legal for this class. Sensored speed controls only. Spec motors and batteries will be available for purchase by November 1, 2008.
Modified: All motor systems must meet ROAR Brushless specification with the exception of the MAMBA MAX system from Caslte Creations which will also be legal for modified. Sensored or sensorless speed controls are allowed in modified only. Race organizers may impose a minimum turn limit at their discretion. Any 7.4V LiPo battery will be legal for modified but batteries must use a quick release hobby grade connector for connection to the ESC ie:sermos, deans, traxxas.




Still kinda trying to get caught up with the whole 13.5 electric deal. Perhaps someone can tell me how the Mamba Max Pro is legal in 13.5 classes when it says in the rules above that the ESC can be "sensored" only.

I was just on Castle's website, and they claim that the MM Pro, is both sensored and sensorless. I believe it states above that these are only legal in MOD.

Am I reading this wrong, or just not understanding.

Thanks

[DQbeck63]

Cost affective 159.00 for a Tekin RS esc is not a lot of money!! If they wanted to make it simple limit what software that goes in it.. ONLY allow the 200 software that away it limits some of the bells and whistles that comes with the 203 software..

All i am saying is I have seen what some of the esc's do to these cars, and you might as well not make it a spec class then because some of the esc's can make that 13.5 motor run more like a 7.5 or 8.5 than a 13.5

[curtisp]

Still kinda trying to get caught up with the whole 13.5 electric deal. Perhaps someone can tell me how the Mamba Max Pro is legal in 13.5 classes when it says in the rules above that the ESC can be "sensored" only.

I was just on Castle's website, and they claim that the MM Pro, is both sensored and sensorless. I believe it states above that these are only legal in MOD.

Am I reading this wrong, or just not understanding.

Thanks

You are reading it wrong.

"Sensored speed controls only" - The Mamba Max Pro and Tekin RS are both sensored AND sensorless speed controls. To be legal in the 13.5 Spec class you MUST run the sensor wire...which you can do with the MMP & the RS. You could NOT run the MMP or RS in sonsorless mode in a Spec class.

The Mod classes allow "sensored or sensorless speed controls." Again...the MMP & the RS are both sensored AND sensorless...therefore they could be used in sonsored OR sensorless mode in a Mod class.

Does that help?

[CShearburn]

Freeze rules are same as DODC. Only banned esc is the AE in 13.5 spec classes. This is dirt racing. We ain't worried about going to fast like the Pan Car racers are. Faster is better if your out here racing.


Doesn't this line seem like a contradiction in a 13.5 class thread? If faster is better, then why have a class restricted by motor in the first place? I'm not disagreeing with your opinion nor do I mean to single you out. This quote gets used a lot, but I hardly think it applies in a restricted or SPEC class.

The motor, battery, and ESC manufacturers have done a lot of cool things over the last few years. Unfortunately, they keep putting track owners / race promoters in a tough spot trying to keep things affordable while catering to the different types of racers. You have those who like SPEC racing with everyone on the same equipment and not having to buy something new every week to keep up, and you have those who want to go as fast as possible with as little restriction/rules as possible and don't mind that someone found the latest and greatest to get a leg up on a particular week. These two groups will never agree on a set of rules.

The new ESC technology, that unfortunately probably isn't done evolving yet, has messed up current SPEC/Stock class racing. Not long ago 13.5 motors (when they first came out) were considered 27 turn brushed equivalent. Now, because of the technology, 13.5 isn't far off from mod speeds. So either track owners / promoters either go a few steps up on motor wind to keep the speeds where they were intended in the 13.5 and 17.5 classes; or they freeze the technology and not allow the new stuff in these classes while things settle down. Again, a tough place to be in if you are in charge of making rules for your racers.

[peanutsprint9]

You are reading it wrong.

"Sensored speed controls only" - The Mamba Max Pro and Tekin RS are both sensored AND sensorless speed controls. To be legal in the 13.5 Spec class you MUST run the sensor wire...which you can do with the MMP & the RS. You could NOT run the MMP or RS in sonsorless mode in a Spec class.

The Mod classes allow "sensored or sensorless speed controls." Again...the MMP & the RS are both sensored AND sensorless...therefore they could be used in sonsored OR sensorless mode in a Mod class.

Does that help?


Perfect, Thanks

[BigT]

All i am saying is I have seen what some of the esc's do to these cars, and you might as well not make it a spec class then because some of the esc's can make that 13.5 motor run more like a 7.5 or 8.5 than a 13.5


I understand what you are saying, one question first are they allowing only dodc motor/batt or same thing with out dodc stickers.

Limiting the software will help on the tuning of the esc .. All of them can be tweaked one way or another by limiting the software that can be used that will put it in a more even field if that. also it depends on if you gear the car correctly, set up, and so on.

[CShearburn]

Cost affective 159.00 for a Tekin RS esc is not a lot of money!! If they wanted to make it simple limit what software that goes in it.. ONLY allow the 200 software that away it limits some of the bells and whistles that comes with the 203 software..

Its not really as simple as limiting what software goes in it. That stops the Tekin issue, but what about the other programmable ESC's, or the ESC's that do the same thing but aren't programmable? You're just making tech more complicated by limiting software/firmware versions. Tech is already too much of a pain in the @$$ in most classes as it is. If you are going to limit software/firmware versions anyway, why not just go ahead and not allow those types of speed controls to begin with.

Nothing wrong with wanting to get more speed out of the motor with the ESC and a laptop, but thats what mod classes are for. This defeats the purpose of a motor/battery restriction. :(

And where are Tekin RS' available for $159? Thats a pretty good deal!

[ed gaines]

Money is a lame excuse to be using,when a kit may cost you over $300.00. :)

[BigT]

Chris, I understand where you are coming from with the tech of the car and I did think about that as well. It boils down if you trust your racers TRUST being the key word and how loose the rule are interpreted. I see no problem with the way the Dodc does this in there series and the big races if it ok with them then it should be fine for everyone or tracks that use them.

Laptops are not the only way to program them.

stromerhobbies 159.95 thats not the Pro it 209.95...

[ed gaines]

I goggle tekin rs theres a couple of places that sell it for 159.00

[Hitman35]

I totally agree with Chris, what we needs to be done in my opinion is that only one company's esc is allowed only in the spec/stock class with no dymatic timeing(Novak esc and motors) and any thing goes in all the mod classes. The cost for a Rebuilt Novak GTB Spread Spectrum esc is 94.99 from novak's website. even the rebuilt havoc 2s sport is 59.99. These two esc's would be consistered in my opinion to be legal in spec/stock classes. But why is it that everybody want to ruin a good thing with the spec/stock class with these new and "favor of the month" esc, or battery, or even motor, lets just keep the spec/stock class the way it is, if we start to let all these new advancements into the spec/stock class, I fear that this would kill all rc dirt oval racing on a national level.:checkeredflag:

[curtisp]

Perfect, Thanks

glad to help. :thumbsup:

[latemodel13]

Speedpassion is coming out with a esc to address the problem with spec racing. It's cheap and non adjustable.

[Eugene Ryder]

Everyone who ran 13.5 LM by last years rules now have to purchase a new ESC? If it was legal last year....how is it not this year? Aren't Tekin and Castle esc's DODC legal? Not trying to be negative or anything, just wonder how rules can change one year to the next.....glad I only run MOD! Spec racing is to expensive for my blood. Why don't tracks that are DODC track, just run DODC rules? That way everyone knows the rules and anyone who has a DODC legal car can race at any DODC track? Wasn't that the point? :confused:

[Hitman35]

I am running the same esc in the 13.5 lm class as last year: Novak GTB and a Novak/DODC 13.5 motor and it is still legal for this season.

[curtisp]

Everyone who ran 13.5 LM by last years rules now have to purchase a new ESC? If it was legal last year....how is it not this year? Aren't Tekin and Castle esc's DODC legal? Not trying to be negative or anything, just wonder how rules can change one year to the next.....glad I only run MOD! Spec racing is to expensive for my blood. Why don't tracks that are DODC track, just run DODC rules? That way everyone knows the rules and anyone who has a DODC legal car can race at any DODC track? Wasn't that the point? :confused:

hey...is that why your Limited Sprint was so fast all weekend at Tea's?!?!? :ha:

by the way...good run...it was fun chasing you! :)

[Eugene Ryder]

hey...is that why your Limited Sprint was so fast all weekend at Tea's?!?!? :ha:

by the way...good run...it was fun chasing you! :)

LOL....I was conned into running that class....I was handed a motor and was told how to gear it......it just happened to be strapped into one of the best handling cars I have ever owned......not to mention it was a 13 yr old car......but the esc I ran was also ran last year in the 13.5 class.....

And thanks for chasing me.....it was a good weekend for the old man.....just wish my tranny in the mod car would have stayed together all weekend......:thumbsup:

[jenzorace]

do.com rules plain and simple. Let us spread our wings and fly! Spec class,, dont make us all run the same car too.

[staatsbmxkid]

what i dont get is that when i got my stuff to get into racing a year ago i looked at what was out asked questions and bought a tekin then. i spent the extra 30 bucks. call me crazy but i thought it was worth the investment. and well i have yet to move it from my car. have yet to need to buy a new speedo of the week as its called or anything else. i waited for my update plugged it in and then we were back on par.

i honestly feel NOT having a updateable speedo is just financially a bad desicion. i would honestly looking at whats out now. black diamond (350 un programable/updateable) tekin (160-180 updateable and programable) or mamba (130 and updateable and programable) now why would u walk into hobby store and drop 180 on an lrp thats not or a novak (whatever it costs), which i dont thinks been competitive at all in past year or more.

as far as cost i like the way things are. think about it tekin has had what 7 or 8 versions of software in the past year and half. at 180 a rip thats alot of money. if u went with the novak/lrp mindset and didnt allow them to be updated for free and made them buy new speedo with that software in it.

at the end of the day you guys felt lrp had advantage or the novak did so u bought that a year+ ago and then when they fell behind. you at that point had to buy new speedos and have come up with this conspeiracy theory against tekin,mamba and the new novak kinetic is even programable..... (slow right now) but still its onboard with rest and hopefully get an update that makes it competitive. lets embrace this updateable thing instead of pushing it away and making us pay 180 for every software update that these manufactures come up with.

[Madball]

The new ESC technology, that unfortunately probably isn't done evolving yet, has messed up current SPEC/Stock class racing. Not long ago 13.5 motors (when they first came out) were considered 27 turn brushed equivalent. Now, because of the technology, 13.5 isn't far off from mod speeds. So either track owners / promoters either go a few steps up on motor wind to keep the speeds where they were intended in the 13.5 and 17.5 classes; or they freeze the technology and not allow the new stuff in these classes while things settle down. Again, a tough place to be in if you are in charge of making rules for your racers.

The equivalent to a 27t motor is a 17.5 and a 19t is same as 13.5 semi mod. The word Spec was to get the Pro's out. If you want limit speedos do it in 17.5. 13.5 is Spec Mod.

[Gary]

I was asking about the DODC Ruling only, I Know how the Il Series guys fell about this one. If I decide to run in any series I follow the rules of that series. All my stuff that I ran last year as far as I know will be legal this year. If the Newer speed controls are allowed I will get one. I know if I have the best stuff out there I will be handicapped by my driving skills. I did not mean to start a new Mid West tread here. I can go to two or three other threads to see what all you all think LOL "You All" Like that Cliff" .
You all is one and all you all is more than one. The things I learn in the Mid West
:greenflag::greenflag::greenflag::yellowflag::yell owflag::yellowflag::yellowflag::yellowflag::yellow flag::checkeredflag::trophy:

[irocz69]

Doesn't this line seem like a contradiction in a 13.5 class thread? If faster is better, then why have a class restricted by motor in the first place? I'm not disagreeing with your opinion nor do I mean to single you out. This quote gets used a lot, but I hardly think it applies in a restricted or SPEC class.

The motor, battery, and ESC manufacturers have done a lot of cool things over the last few years. Unfortunately, they keep putting track owners / race promoters in a tough spot trying to keep things affordable while catering to the different types of racers. You have those who like SPEC racing with everyone on the same equipment and not having to buy something new every week to keep up, and you have those who want to go as fast as possible with as little restriction/rules as possible and don't mind that someone found the latest and greatest to get a leg up on a particular week. These two groups will never agree on a set of rules.

The new ESC technology, that unfortunately probably isn't done evolving yet, has messed up current SPEC/Stock class racing. Not long ago 13.5 motors (when they first came out) were considered 27 turn brushed equivalent. Now, because of the technology, 13.5 isn't far off from mod speeds. So either track owners / promoters either go a few steps up on motor wind to keep the speeds where they were intended in the 13.5 and 17.5 classes; or they freeze the technology and not allow the new stuff in these classes while things settle down. Again, a tough place to be in if you are in charge of making rules for your racers.

Ok Chris, after reading all the post on this thread, yours was the most intriging to me. I do agree w/you that the Mfg's have done a fabulous job w/the programable ESC's. This technology has been long overdue & for the most part, has saved racers alot of $$$. This concept, far outweighs the notion of having to buy a new speedo every few months & that's what was happening the last 2 yrs.

Now, for the Spec/DODC 13.5 concept ! First of all, it is my understanding that the 17.5 motors were intended to be the equivalent to the old stock 27turns & the 13.5 motors were closer to the 19 turns of old. Maybe someone like Cutman or Putnam can elaborate on that issue. I believe the 13.5 DODC Spec class was intended to cut the cost of racing down in the 2 areas that racers were spending there money the most on a weekly & monthly basis. Motors & batteries ! Being the "HARD CORE" racer that I am, I have mostly been a so called "stock" racer, but to be competive in that class, you needed to have fresh batteries & motors, @ the least, every month, to even keep up.

Now w/the brushless & lipos, that need isn't there anymore, so now racers can upgrade other components on there cars, like the formentioned ESC's. This investment, far outweighs the climbing cost of the older, motors,batteries, & ESC's of the month ! No matter how you look @ this class the technology is not going to stop & racers are always looking to go faster. That is the overall concept of racing in general, to "GO FAST" !

As far as this class being intended to keep the "BIG DOGS" out. I disagree ! Although there is a Pro Driver list of racers that can't race this class,@ National events, that doesn't mean that they don't run it @ there local tracks. Plus, there are some racers that are very good wheel men that run in the 13.5 ranks. It is, & will always be, in my book, the most competive class in the country. I know alot of my friends, that are on the Pro list, that would still enjoy running a class like the 13.5.

In conclusion, there is no way to keep someone from spending money where they see fit. This is an expensive hobby & we all know this going into it. I think the "powers to be" have done the best thing that could be done to have a class like 13.5 to keep things on a more even keel & put the drivers & setups back into the racing. Running or moving up to "MOD" is not always the answer either, trust me. I have seen it all in my 25yrs in the hobby & after running Dirt Oval, Pancar, & Offroad all those years, I feel the DODC has, by far, made @ least DO racing more affordable & enjoyable.

Just my :twocents:

GO FAST TURN LEFT ! Keith S.

[jenzorace]

Oh its true! I really dont understand WHY allen and chris want to SLOW DOWN the 13.5 lm class. We went by do.com rules last year, lets not change anything. If anything im goin WAY FASTER than i did last year! Cuz i got skilz!!!!!

[CShearburn]

Laptops are not the only way to program them.

What ESC has the ability to program the timing and rpm values to the depth that Tekin and Castle does without plugging it into a computer?


Money is a lame excuse to be using,when a kit may cost you over $300.00. :)

Using the cost of the kit is a lame excuse to spend more than you have to on the rest of the car. :p


Speedpassion is coming out with a esc to address the problem with spec racing. It's cheap and non adjustable.

I think you are going to see more and more companies get on board with this within this next year or two. This is why its important for sanctioning bodies, track owners, and race promoters to keep things in check as much as possible while the speed control things sorts itself out.

If anyone thinks they are safe from having to buy a new speed control in the next year or two to keep up with technology because they have a Tekin or Mamba then they are delusional. NOTHING guarantees that someone won't come out with something new this year that forces even Tekin to build a completely new ESC to stay competitive.



Everyone who ran 13.5 LM by last years rules now have to purchase a new ESC?

No, because you are assuming two things: FIRST, that the track owners didn't consult the drivers who supported the class last year before making their decision. SECOND, that everyone went out and bought Tekin's and no one in the class ran Novak's or LRP's. I think you should give the track owners a little more credit than that.




.....glad I only run MOD! Spec racing is to expensive for my blood. Why don't tracks that are DODC track, just run DODC rules? That way everyone knows the rules and anyone who has a DODC legal car can race at any DODC track? Wasn't that the point? :confused:

This is exactly my point. The class would be more expensive for someone like you or me because we run mod and have the equipment to do so. The class would NOT be more expensive for someone new who can buy a $300 CW Rocket kit that comes with legal tires & wheels and a legal body and a $140 Novak Havoc 13.5 Brushless system and have fun and gain experience in the hobby before diving into the technology wars in mod. In addition to the ESC, you need a hotwire/link plus a laptop to dive into the full potential of the ESC. It all adds up and all to run a SPEC class. Just doesn't make sense.


Now, for the Spec/DODC 13.5 concept ! First of all, it is my understanding that the 17.5 motors were intended to be the equivalent to the old stock 27turns & the 13.5 motors were closer to the 19 turns of old. Maybe someone like Cutman or Putnam can elaborate on that issue. I believe the 13.5 DODC Spec class was intended to cut the cost of racing down in the 2 areas that racers were spending there money the most on a weekly & monthly basis. Motors & batteries ! Being the "HARD CORE" racer that I am, I have mostly been a so called "stock" racer, but to be competive in that class, you needed to have fresh batteries & motors, @ the least, every month, to even keep up.

I am not disagreeing that 13.5 is more like 19t and 17.5 is (was) now the 27t equivalent. What I said was when the 13.5 WAS FIRST INTRODUCED (several years ago) it was intended to be the 27t equivalent and at the time, FOR THE MOST PART, it was. As things evolved it has got to the point 13.5 became a 19t and 17.5 was introduced and became the 27t. As it stands now, the ESC technology is already blowing that class structure out of the water by blurring the lines between 13.5 and mod and making 17.5 more what 13.5 was. I wouldn't even begin to think that the ESC companies are done improving on the technology either, so I fully expect to see speeds in these classes increase even more over the next year or two.


No matter how you look @ this class the technology is not going to stop & racers are always looking to go faster. That is the overall concept of racing in general, to "GO FAST" !

True to a point, but there always need to be a class that isn't so fast and out of control that someone new can come in, get his feet wet and not get scared off immediately by speeds and technology. Most organiztions tried to keep a stock (27t/17.5) around with this intent. Most of us on these forums have been around long enough and don't see the need for a class that doesn't scare new people out of the hobby right away. Track owners do though.


As far as this class being intended to keep the "BIG DOGS" out. I disagree ! Although there is a Pro Driver list of racers that can't race this class,@ National events, that doesn't mean that they don't run it @ there local tracks. Plus, there are some racers that are very good wheel men that run in the 13.5 ranks. It is, & will always be, in my book, the most competive class in the country. I know alot of my friends, that are on the Pro list, that would still enjoy running a class like the 13.5.

And I agree. I have never been a fan of not allowing experienced/pro racers to "race down" in a slower or more economical class just because they are experienced. I am a fan of three classes (on a local level): Mod, Stock (Spec), and Sportsman with the Sportsman class using the same rules as Stock/Spec but being for beginners or less experienced/skilled drivers.



Oh its true! I really dont understand WHY allen and chris want to SLOW DOWN the 13.5 lm class.


Oh give me a break Jenzo. Don't even try to blame me and Allen for doing anything to the 13.5 class. First of all there are FOUR track owners that decide and agree on the rules for any class in the series. For what its worth I proposed allowing the newer ESC's in the class but not allowing the dynamic timing like the BRL does with the Tekin. The track owners rejected it because no one wants to add to an already large list of things to tech which I can sympathize with. The class is not going any slower than it did last year. In fact it will be the same speed. If you don't like SPEC racing and want to go faster then stick with MOD.

The WCI series is unique in that it is not one person or group with their own set of rules just hitting four different tracks thoughout the year. It is FOUR TRACK OWNERS within roughly 100 miles of each other that get together and set a class structure that they feel will work the best for both their local racing and the series. To them there is more to it than just blindly using a national set of rules just for the sake of using a national set of rules. The series 13.5 LM class is as much a DODC class as the Nitro Truck/EDM class.

And for the record I personally prefer mod racing especially in dirt oval racing. I like having to work the throttle more and I don't see the need to restrict battery, motor, ESC's since we can only put so much power down to the track anyway. But that doesn't mean I can't view things from a different perspective, and I can sympathize with track owners/series promoters feeling the need to pull the reigns on the technology issue before it gets out of control. We did it with batteries and motors and bodies, why stop with the ESC.

Whats the harm is holding back on ESC's for a year while the dust settles and re-evaluate the situation again next year? Everyone who ran the series last year can run the same equipment and if someone wants to join in whether they are new or already racing can do it pretty cheap. I'm pretty sure you will see 20+ cars in this class in the series this year reguardless.

[Gary]

Oh its true! I really dont understand WHY allen and chris want to SLOW DOWN the 13.5 lm class. We went by do.com rules last year, lets not change anything. If anything im goin WAY FASTER than i did last year! Cuz i got skilz!!!!!

We did not run DODC rules last year. We ran Mid West Rules. Did you have a DODC Stckered Battery and Motor Jenso?
I had one in my box but did not run it, had it just in case but I did not run DODC approved Motor. Just saying If the class is not fast enough for you or you can run DODC races only. Then there is nothing to Bitch about. :o

[jenzorace]

As a matter of fact i broke bills track record with a stickered motor and battery early in the year.They let us run non stickered motors and batteries. So basicly we were running by do.com rules. As for the multipostin double talkin shearburn, Dont lie to us. We all know your allens mouthpiece. And i STILL run slovak equipment.

[Sprocket]

Oh its true! I really dont understand WHY allen and chris want to SLOW DOWN the 13.5 lm class. We went by do.com rules last year, lets not change anything. If anything im goin WAY FASTER than i did last year! Cuz i got skilz!!!!! I agree with Chris ,don't be singling him and Allen out, all decisions are agreed upon by all four track owners . Do we have short memories because I remember most people that ran the 13.5 class last year loved it just the way it was and I am sure the new people coming in will enjoy it's same appeal .Remember guys we are out to have fun and this class is a blast and will continue to be as long as its integrity stays intact .

[jenzorace]

Hey thanks for flaming me on facebook.. My turn.. You dont know any better and just shake your head YES!!!!!

[CShearburn]

As a matter of fact i broke bills track record with a stickered motor and battery early in the year.They let us run non stickered motors and batteries. So basicly we were running by do.com rules. As for the multipostin double talkin shearburn, Dont lie to us. We all know your allens mouthpiece. And i STILL run slovak equipment.


Jenzo you have a pm

[rj14]

Here is something for you guys to ponder.....Since the DODC 13.5 classes aren't a full blown spec class....shouldn't you be able to spend your hard earned $$ on whatever you wish? If an ESC came out that was $500 and you wanted to buy it, should you be allowed to run it?

The AE speedo didn't have anything on the rug in FL for the Mamba and Tekin, so really this should be moot. It should be allowed.

Next I really think to keep everyone from crying...just spec 1 speedo. If you spend $130-180 for a speedo that you can adjust however you want, only for someone to say you have to run these paramiters w/ this software version....well wouldn't it be chaper still just to run a fixed non-adjustable esc that cosats $80? Eneryone is the same rght? This is turning into a situation where you can't have it both ways....

What happens when Speed Passion comes out w/ their new fully adjustable/upgradable unit? What happens if it comes out costing $190-200 bucks? Does it get shunned just because it costs more? What if it is faster than everyone elses?

What, what if? See where this is heading...

The rules are real simple....HOWEVER, we seem to be making them more complicated.

DODC Motor, DODC Battery, DODC....no wait. Any esc, any software. I really don't see the need for exceptions anymore.

[curtisp]

Did I miss something...did this take a weird turn somewhere? :confused:

[Sprocket]

Hey thanks for flaming me on facebook.. My turn.. You dont know any better and just shake your head YES!!!!! Sorry about FB Jenzo I thought we were just having fun . I do know better, I know better than to let you blame just Allen and Chris when ever there was four minds at work sorry if that disrupted your fun .And as for just shaking my head YES!!!! you would have to ask the other three track owners I know they would tell you different that is a Fact.:D

[rj14]

Did I miss something...did this take a weird turn somewhere? :confused:


think so.....my post was aimed at the 1st 2....which is what this thread was to be about. But I was basically ignoring the other stuff about the midwest guys fighting about the rules amongst 4 tracks. Not my fight.

[curtisp]

think so.....my post was aimed at the 1st 2....which is what this thread was to be about. But I was basically ignoring the other stuff about the midwest guys fighting about the rules amongst 4 tracks. Not my fight.


yeah...I wasn't referring to your post...but I think you got that. ;)

Not my fight either. :D

[JasonAB25]

Yeeahh, i thoght this was a general discussion about the 13.5 class on a national level, not for the Illinois series deal. Thread should probably be moved. It appears that only the IL series has an issue with the speedo topic.

[rj14]

Yeeahh, i thoght this was a general discussion about the 13.5 class on a national level, not for the Illinois series deal. Thread should probably be moved. It appears that only the IL series has an issue with the speedo topic.

not true....there are others that have issues w/ esc topics....some of us don't want certain ideas to gain traction with other series.

[CShearburn]

Yeeahh, i thoght this was a general discussion about the 13.5 class on a national level, not for the Illinois series deal. Thread should probably be moved. It appears that only the IL series has an issue with the speedo topic.

Well for the most part I was trying to address the ESC topic as a general dirt oval issue and not just an Illinois thing. It just slowly steered that way. Like most threads clearly this one is struggling to stay on topic, sorry.

Unlike some people in addition to my local/regional racing I am also worried about what will happen in what was suppose to be the slower stock classes across the country with the new ESC technology blurring the lines between 13.5 and mod and making 17.5 more like 13.5. I am in favor a national set of rules that all tracks can adhere to so its easier to travel to different areas with the same equipment. However unless DODC actually addresses the ESC issue, I don't see whats wrong with tracks wanting to put a non-DODC class in that caters to their local racing.

[curtisp]

Well for the most part I was trying to address the ESC topic as a general dirt oval issue and not just an Illinois thing. It just slowly steered that way. Like most threads clearly this one is struggling to stay on topic, sorry.

Unlike some people in addition to my local/regional racing I am also worried about what will happen in what was suppose to be the slower stock classes across the country with the new ESC technology blurring the lines between 13.5 and mod and making 17.5 more like 13.5. I am in favor a national set of rules that all tracks can adhere to so its easier to travel to different areas with the same equipment. However unless DODC actually addresses the ESC issue, I don't see whats wrong with tracks wanting to put a non-DODC class in that caters to their local racing.

I am pretty sure that is allowed. At least that's how I understood it when I talked to Rob about it. :thumbsup:

[JasonAB25]

Well for the most part I was trying to address the ESC topic as a general dirt oval issue and not just an Illinois thing. It just slowly steered that way. Like most threads clearly this one is struggling to stay on topic, sorry.

Unlike some people in addition to my local/regional racing I am also worried about what will happen in what was suppose to be the slower stock classes across the country with the new ESC technology blurring the lines between 13.5 and mod and making 17.5 more like 13.5. I am in favor a national set of rules that all tracks can adhere to so its easier to travel to different areas with the same equipment. However unless DODC actually addresses the ESC issue, I don't see whats wrong with tracks wanting to put a non-DODC class in that caters to their local racing.

Chris, I know you are just trying to help. I don't read these topics looking for a resolution to an issue in most cases:) I too would like to see a decision made on the ESC issue, but it's snowing outside so i'm not in too big of a hurry

[Gary]

Thanks guys for the answer to my Question. Race on. Jenso I enjoy runing with you and all the others last year. Chris does a lot for Allen here In Springfield and for RC racing in the area. For that I thank him. This class was a blast last year which is showned by the numbers that have showed a interest this year. I think Chris speaks for himself. If Allen was to speak up it would not be good. I enjoy RC racing and this class works for me. Like I said before Just wanted to know what DODC rules where on the ESC.

:blackflag::blackflag::blackflag::blackflag::black flag::blackflag::blueflag::blueflag::blueflag::blu eflag::blueflag::blueflag::blueflag::blackflag::bl ackflag::blackflag::blackflag::blackflag::blackfla g::blackflag::blueflag::blueflag::blueflag::bluefl ag::blueflag::blueflag::blueflag::checkeredflag::b eer::beer::beer:

[irocz69]

Well for the most part I was trying to address the ESC topic as a general dirt oval issue and not just an Illinois thing. It just slowly steered that way. Like most threads clearly this one is struggling to stay on topic, sorry.

Unlike some people in addition to my local/regional racing I am also worried about what will happen in what was suppose to be the slower stock classes across the country with the new ESC technology blurring the lines between 13.5 and mod and making 17.5 more like 13.5. I am in favor a national set of rules that all tracks can adhere to so its easier to travel to different areas with the same equipment. However unless DODC actually addresses the ESC issue, I don't see whats wrong with tracks wanting to put a non-DODC class in that caters to their local racing.

Chris, like RJ & Curtis have said, this isn't my fight either, but to think the 13.5 motors were intended to be compairable to the brushed 27 turns is just incorrect ! I just recently had this conversation w/some people that were in on the initial inception of the brushless motors. 17.5 was always intended to be the equivilent to 27 turns.

Now w/that being said, I do however agree w/you on there should be a novice or sportsman class available for the newbees & even for some racers that are just not up to speed in the 13.5 classes. The 17.5 motor would be a very good starting point for such a class, & probably should have a so called "spec" ESC, but I think limiting the speedo would only incure more cost for the racer when wanting to move up to 13.5. Why not just limit the program the 17.5 class can run. It's pretty simple or easy to detect when someone is running much faster than the others.

I think the above mentioned ,could be a pretty viable solution to some of the issues we are facing w/the on going technology in this hobby. I don't think restricting the current 13.5 class is the answer. It is already restricted enough & probably the most popular class to come along in years. Im not delutional, to the fact that the Mfg's could come out w/something tomorrow, that is better & faster, but I do know after talking to some people about the Castle Mamba Max Pro, it has plenty of room for updates w/out having to buy something new for a long time. Guess only time will tell !

To conclude, I think in general, all over the country, the novice classes have been "Majorly" overlooked for many years now & the technology is partly to blame, but in reality, it is each & every one of us racers, that need to try, on our local levels, to change that , if we want the hobby to continue to grow :thumbsup:

GO FAST TURN LEFT ! Keith S.

[CShearburn]

Chris, like RJ & Curtis have said, this isn't my fight either, but to think the 13.5 motors were intended to be compairable to the brushed 27 turns is just incorrect ! I just recently had this conversation w/some people that were in on the initial inception of the brushless motors. 17.5 was always intended to be the equivilent to 27 turns.


Well I don't know what to tell you then. I just remember when the Novak 4300 (what is now a 10.5) came out we were using it in on-road and it ran laps within a lap of 19 turn. Some tracks eventually allowed both to run together. Then the 13.5 came out, and again, was really close to 27t... so close that some tracks started allowing them to run together. Since then, things kept evolving to where tracks started separating brushed and brushless back to their own class again because what was originally thought to be the brushed equivalent could no longer keep up and it was unfair. 13.5 got to the point for a while where some tracks even started allowing 19turns in the brushless 13.5 classes since they were starting to get close in lap times and some guys still wanted to hang on to the old brushed technology (transition period).

We have finally progressed to the point that 13.5 is considered a mid range class (19t) and 17.5 is considered stock (27t). Unfortunately, as we all know, the new ESC technology is changing that once again. Track owners are going to start having to re-align the class structure again, or pull the reigns in on the allowed technology in some classes until it all settles down before making a decision.

[Hitman35]

Gary, chris and a lot of other drivers are thinking the same way that their is a issue with the new esc comming out every few months, i think and alot of other drivers would agree with me that their should be a limit on what esc's should be ran in SPEC/STOCK classes, I see that these "FAVOR OF THE MONTH" esc's, will ruin the spec/stock divisions because a majority of the racers that run in these classes are budget racers.

[BigT]

You know I have add my opinion on this subject and the reason is that over the fall/winter I bought two new ESC's and they are the Tekin Rs. I was planning on running the 13.5 class but now I won't simply because I am not buying something because wcil series rules say so. I think that everything was fine before the rule change but I know nothing...


Have a nice day... :mad:

[Stetler17]

Still not getting the point.

I have the very same TEKIN that I ran at the 2008 USOWC in 13.5 and it will run with any speed control on the market.

I have been through three LRP's (newer versions out with better performance) and have witnessd or read of multiple Novaks going up in flames since then. :thumbsdown:

I fully understand the concern with all of the turmoil in Carpet racing right now..but this is Dirt Oval, and the whole point in DODC rules is to let the powers that be decide what the rules should be for the masses and EVERYONE follow them.

I have faith that Rob Cutman and whoever else he picks to be a part of the decision making process is working through these issues and watching what other organizations are doing to address them.

Why can't everyone just follow them and give racers everywhere a consistent set of rules? Why should someone from Indiana have to change speedos to run in Illinois?
Why should we have to change wings to run in Illinois?
See a pattern here?

[brhodes]

Still not getting the point.

I have the very same TEKIN that I ran at the 2008 USOWC in 13.5 and it will run with any speed control on the market.

I have been through three LRP's (newer versions out with better performance) and have witnessd or read of multiple Novaks going up in flames since then. :thumbsdown:

I fully understand the concern with all of the turmoil in Carpet racing right now..but this is Dirt Oval, and the whole point in DODC rules is to let the powers that be decide what the rules should be for the masses and EVERYONE follow them.

I have faith that Rob Cutman and whoever else he picks to be a part of the decision making process is working through these issues and watching what other organizations are doing to address them.

Why can't everyone just follow them and give racers everywhere a consistent set of rules? Why should someone from Indiana have to change speedos to run in Illinois?
Why should we have to change wings to run in Illinois?
See a pattern here?

Great post! :thumbsup:

[Sonny B]

I think some of you guys are really getting bent out of shape over nothing. As Rob has stated many times DODC rules are a set of guidelines that tracks can choose to follow. Local deviations have always been allowed.

The speed control technology issue in spec motor classes has been a significant challenge for every form of electric racing (off-road, on-road, oval) this season. Every track owner or series promoter has been challenged with how to best officiate this rapidly changing technology. Quite honestly nobody really has a good handle on it yet including the DODC. The last update was made 2 months ago and its now out of date.

Some embrace the technology and that’s fine I think some of it is cool myself. But there is also several that can’t afford to keep up with the rapid changes, can’t handle the faster speeds, or don’t have a degree in rocket science to maximize the performance of their complex new ESC. You don’t hear much form the second group on this board because they don’t race anymore. They quit!

I would suggest if a track owner or local series chooses to put a rule in place to control some of the technology then they are probably doing it for a good reason. They’re not trying to set a trend for the nation they are simply looking out for what’s best for their local racers. You may not agree, but until you own a track and are responsible for paying the bills that keep the doors open, you as a racer really should not bitch about how they choose to run their business.

[staatsbmxkid]

im with stetler.

and as far as someone quitting for not understanding rpm ranages and timing curves when they are tuning a RACE CAR (for lack of better term) i think they honestly got into wrong sport. and as far as adjusting any of these speed controls anyone at the track that has figured it out is more than willing to help out anyone who isnt understanding. ive personally spent alot of time with a few guys exsplaining each setting how it works what it does and helping them set it up to way they drive.

id say putting a freeze on speedos right now wouldnt be a bad solution as the mamba and tekin are fairly even. problem with dropping to lower version of tekin to match the lrp sadly just means the mamba will run away again since i believe that the mambas out of box trim is at current speeds. that is where this becomes really iffy as far as limiting speedos in my opinion. putting a freeze on the current speedo settings will do 2 things, 1 keep the speedo thing even and 2 allow the novak and lrp guys to get their development programs in order to catch up.

as far as tekin and castle needing something new soon because software is maxed out for the products hardware.... not happening anytime to soon. the tekin has along way to go and the mamba is also. castle may want to look into introducing one thats little more lightweight compact and reliable but as far as reaching max limit on internal parts neither one are close.

[Hitman35]

I think the technology is good overall for the hobby, but certain people out there wand the "FAVOR OF THE MONTH" HIGH END,SUPPER FAST AND HIGH DOLLAR esc's so the vast majority will have to buy these new esc's so they can just be compeditive. But this will inturn force out many if not all the BUDGET RACERS and make spec/stock classes into a high dollar division like mod divisions. This is a hobby, but all of you have forgetten that and want to turn this into a NASCAR type of racing that the lowest level of racer has to invest thousands of dollars to race and be compeditive for only a month or two. This is just a hobby for people to have fun at but some people want this to be a business.

[WYD]

im with stetler.

and as far as someone quitting for not understanding rpm ranages and timing curves when they are tuning a RACE CAR (for lack of better term) i think they honestly got into wrong sport. and as far as adjusting any of these speed controls anyone at the track that has figured it out is more than willing to help out anyone who isnt understanding. ive personally spent alot of time with a few guys exsplaining each setting how it works what it does and helping them set it up to way they drive.

id say putting a freeze on speedos right now wouldnt be a bad solution as the mamba and tekin are fairly even. problem with dropping to lower version of tekin to match the lrp sadly just means the mamba will run away again since i believe that the mambas out of box trim is at current speeds. that is where this becomes really iffy as far as limiting speedos in my opinion. putting a freeze on the current speedo settings will do 2 things, 1 keep the speedo thing even and 2 allow the novak and lrp guys to get their development programs in order to catch up.

as far as tekin and castle needing something new soon because software is maxed out for the products hardware.... not happening anytime to soon. the tekin has along way to go and the mamba is also. castle may want to look into introducing one thats little more lightweight compact and reliable but as far as reaching max limit on internal parts neither one are close.All I will say is the Castle software is far from maxed out. As for a smaller speedo from Castleyou will just have to wait and see.;)

[jenzorace]

I think the technology is good overall for the hobby, but certain people out there wand the "FAVOR OF THE MONTH" HIGH END,SUPPER FAST AND HIGH DOLLAR esc's so the vast majority will have to buy these new esc's so they can just be compeditive. But this will inturn force out many if not all the BUDGET RACERS and make spec/stock classes into a high dollar division like mod divisions. This is a hobby, but all of you have forgetten that and want to turn this into a NASCAR type of racing that the lowest level of racer has to invest thousands of dollars to race and be compeditive for only a month or two. This is just a hobby for people to have fun at but some people want this to be a business.
That would be flavor brian, and maybe you should use spellcheck.

[jenzorace]

Still not getting the point.

Why can't everyone just follow them and give racers everywhere a consistent set of rules? Why should someone from Indiana have to change speedos to run in Illinois?
Why should we have to change wings to run in Illinois?
See a pattern here?
This is what im complaining about. maybe stetler and the boyz would visit illinois more often. And i wouldnt have to have so much equipment.

[curtisp]

I think the technology is good overall for the hobby, but certain people out there wand the "FAVOR OF THE MONTH" HIGH END,SUPPER FAST AND HIGH DOLLAR esc's so the vast majority will have to buy these new esc's so they can just be compeditive. But this will inturn force out many if not all the BUDGET RACERS and make spec/stock classes into a high dollar division like mod divisions. This is a hobby, but all of you have forgetten that and want to turn this into a NASCAR type of racing that the lowest level of racer has to invest thousands of dollars to race and be compeditive for only a month or two. This is just a hobby for people to have fun at but some people want this to be a business.

Which speed controls are the "flavor of the month"? I certainly would not put the Mamba Max Pro or the RS (RS Pro) into that catagory. If the RS is a "flavor of the month" type of speed control...it's been a loooooong month...'cause it's been out for over a year and is still competitive. The orange & blue speed controls...you know...the ones that can NOT be upgraded...fit into the "flavor or the month" category better...'cause they come out with a whole new esc for you to buy...instead of releasing a free update for the esc that's in your car.

And...if you are comparing this to NASCAR...it sounds to me that you want this to be like NASCAR...you want EVERYONE to have the same equipment...but then when the guy next to you on the drivers stand is still beating you...what are you going to complain about next...the charger that he is using...maybe he beat you because he has a better radio...

[Stetler17]

I would suggest if a track owner or local series chooses to put a rule in place to control some of the technology then they are probably doing it for a good reason. They’re not trying to set a trend for the nation they are simply looking out for what’s best for their local racers. You may not agree, but until you own a track and are responsible for paying the bills that keep the doors open, you as a racer really should not bitch about how they choose to run their business.


Sonny,

I'm all for a track owner doing what they feel they need to do for their business to keep it viable. You make it pretty clear that your opinion is that since I, and others, do not own racetracks our opinion is not relevant. I'll leave that one alone. ;)

Enjoy your summer.

[rj14]

All I will say is the Castle software is far from maxed out. As for a smaller speedo from Castleyou will just have to wait and see.;)


People wonder why I am hard on Castle..... Not a knock on you personally Brian.

If Castle was such the customer friendly gem everyone wants to play them out to be that is fine...I don't want to hear you guys crying that you got played by Castle. First everyone ran out to get the MMP, then the pan car guys begged and got a special order one-off single cell...now they will release a NEW SMALLER MMP....hmm wow a price point speedo of $129 will now be what, $250 before it is all said and done. RANT OVER!!

Whatever......Here is the bottom line. If you are a DODC track and you sell DODC equipment...you better be running by DODC rules, which states the only banned (should be lifted) ESC currently is the AE Black Diamond. If you run at a track that bans or or emposes limits to esc's. They should not be listed as DODC tracks and no longer sold equipment. They are not keeping within the spirit of the DODC.

[rj14]

Whatever......Here is the bottom line. If you are a DODC track and you sell DODC equipment...you better be running by DODC rules, which states the only banned (should be lifted) ESC currently is the AE Black Diamond. If you run at a track that bans or or emposes limits to esc's. They should not be listed as DODC tracks and no longer sold equipment. They are not keeping within the spirit of the DODC.


Wanted you guys to see this again.......


Why? Because I may be wrong, but the spirit of the DODC is to promote and unify dirt oval racing based on a set of universal rules that allows one racer from anywhere in the country go to a participating trac and race with confidence that his car will be legal and competetive based on a unified rules package. Plus the sale of DODC equipment will help put back into the pockets of the track owners who provide facilities to us racers.

If I am wrong on the intent here please let me know.

[irocz69]

Wanted you guys to see this again.......


Why? Because I may be wrong, but the spirit of the DODC is to promote and unify dirt oval racing based on a set of universal rules that allows one racer from anywhere in the country go to a participating trac and race with confidence that his car will be legal and competetive based on a unified rules package. Plus the sale of DODC equipment will help put back into the pockets of the track owners who provide facilities to us racers.

If I am wrong on the intent here please let me know.

Now, I think that pretty much sums it up, Well said RJ :thumbsup:

GO FAST TURN LEFT ! Keith S.

[CShearburn]

Whatever......Here is the bottom line. If you are a DODC track and you sell DODC equipment...you better be running by DODC rules, which states the only banned (should be lifted) ESC currently is the AE Black Diamond. If you run at a track that bans or or emposes limits to esc's. They should not be listed as DODC tracks and no longer sold equipment. They are not keeping within the spirit of the DODC.

Well obviously you are under the opinion that "official" DODC tracks (if there even is such a thing) are only allowed to run DODC classes and nothing else. And since Mr. Cutman himself has stated several times that the DODC rules were intended to be guidelines while allowing leway in the class structure and DODC rules that the track decided to use; it leads me to believe even an "official" DODC track would be allowed to run a non-DODC class even if it used some of the DODC rules.

I am also having a hard time finding anywhere in the current DODC rulebook about the banning of the AE Black Diamond speed control in any classes. The only time I ever recall such a rule was the announcement about it being banned for the Open Wheel. If it is still banned, then why hasn't the rulebook been updated to reflect this change considering there are some who live or die by the DODC rulebook as if it were the 10 Commandments.

I hope some people see where I am going with this.

[FULLT1LT]

Well obviously you are under the opinion that "official" DODC tracks (if there even is such a thing) are only allowed to run DODC classes and nothing else. And since Mr. Cutman himself has stated several times that the DODC rules were intended to be guidelines while allowing leway in the class structure and DODC rules that the track decided to use; it leads me to believe even an "official" DODC track would be allowed to run a non-DODC class even if it used some of the DODC rules.

I am also having a hard time finding anywhere in the current DODC rulebook about the banning of the AE Black Diamond speed control in any classes. The only time I ever recall such a rule was the announcement about it being banned for the Open Wheel. If it is still banned, then why hasn't the rulebook been updated to reflect this change considering there are some who live or die by the DODC rulebook as if it were the 10 Commandments.

I hope some people see where I am going with this.


If you are listed as a DODC track you should run by DODC rules period.If your track cannot follow those rules in my opinion you should get your forum pulled and your national rules race pulled.How is it fair for someone who gets these benefits versus a track that does follow the rules?????This is the entire point here.The other classes truck /edm ,1/8th are left to be governed by the tracks.The reason people are so upset is because you guys are changing a national rules package that has been proven,effective and competitive. I was 1 of the first guys to race this class and have not had to buy a new speed control yet.Thanks TEKIN and thanks ROB CUTMAN for having the insight to create something that everyone could COMPETE together without making it a MONEY game.And whether or not you guys realize it,people are going to buy multiple brands of esc's to get the 1 that works the best and your still going to be chasing the esc of the week.Why would you not want the WCIS to be included as a national rules series?The possibility of more entries,food sales and hobby shop sales.I guess I'm missing the point of a national rules package:confused::confused::confused::confused::co nfused::confused:

[CShearburn]

If you are listed as a DODC track you should run by DODC rules period.If your track cannot follow those rules in my opinion you should get your forum pulled and your national rules race pulled.How is it fair for someone who gets these benefits versus a track that does follow the rules?????

To my knowledge a track does not have to sign any sort of legal agreement with DODC to be listed in the forums. There is no benefit for being a DODC track other than having a forum. It is entirely up to Rob which tracks he puts a forum up for and which he doesn't.


This is the entire point here.The other classes truck /edm ,1/8th are left to be governed by the tracks.

So by your own admission you agree a DODC track is allowed to have non-DODC classes and govern those classes themselves. What YOU FAIL TO UNDERSTAND is that the WCIS Late Model class (we will use this as an example since people continue to bring it up) is currently, and has always been, a NON-DODC class just as much so as an 1/8 LM class or the Truck/EDM class. The FOUR, count them FOUR DIFFERENT TRACK OWNERS all see the need for a non-DODC specific Late Model class to support not only the series, but their local racing. In the end they are responsible for not only keeping racers at their tracks, but acquiring new racers to their tracks. They, AS A GROUP, have come up with what they feel is best for them.


The reason people are so upset is because you guys are changing a national rules package that has been proven,effective and competition

Wrong. No one changed any national set of rules because it was never a national set of rules. It was a regional or better yet local set of rules. See above.



Thanks TEKIN and thanks ROB CUTMAN for having the insight to create something that everyone could COMPETE together without making it a MONEY game.

This is where we just simply have a clear different of opinion, and I'll leave it at that because this thread is going in circles and accomplishing nothing anyway.


And whether or not you guys realize it,people are going to buy multiple brands of esc's to get the 1 that works the best and your still going to be chasing the esc of the week.

Here is the second area I think it causing your problems. By your statement here it is obvious you don't even know what the rules will be. You (and others) are bitching about rules that haven't even been published yet. Have you even tried to PERSONALLY/PRIVATELY contact one or more of the track owners to voice your concerns or discuss the matter before bitching about it in public? You obviously don't care to listen to my reasoning, so try listening to their reasoning especially considering it is THEIR SERIES and THEIR RULES. You ran ZERO races in that class in the series last year. So unless you ran the class last year or you take some initiative and discuss your concerns with the track owners privately as a possibly entry for the class this year, how do they know what YOU want until after they make their decisions and see you bitching about it publicly afterwards?


Why would you not want the WCIS to be included as a national rules series?The possibility of more entries,food sales and hobby shop sales.I guess I'm missing the point of a national rules package:confused::confused::confused::confused::co nfused::confused:

The series does offer DODC classes. And yes I do think you are missing the point of a national set of rules. You are also missing the point of the series and some of the classes it has. And as Sonny said previously, until you walk in one of the track owner's shoes you have no idea all the factors they must consider when trying to bring in more entries and food and hobby shop sales. Things seem much more simple when viewing from one perspective, not always when viewing from the other. Since the Tekin and Mamba speed controls Bill, Allen, and Marryville has in stock didn't factor into their decisions, they must realize something else you don't. To find out what that is, try asking them.

[signman501]

I am sort of confused by the argument here about esc's. If a group of tracks that are within 100mi of each other run a series and their requirment is a non-adjustable esc is all that's necessary then that is not a problem. I'm not going there to race. As for DODC specing a single esc, thats not going to happen. The only reason the AE was banned was mainly the price and everyone thought it was going to be faster, it wasn't. Should be allowed if your dumb enough to pay that much for it. It is all a moot point because there won't be such any rule changes until July or Jan. That's when DODC makes rule changes.

[Rob Cutman]

Guys,
I will address this topic in more detail when I have more time but wanted to make these few points. The AE Speed control was banned temporarily due to price and availability. That status has not changed but could at some time. We are as a group looking at the current state of the ESC's and will likely have some clarification in the near future. As far as the Tekin and Mamba ESC's I can almost assure you that they will remain legal for all existing classes as so many racers already own them and they are easily upgradable. I see no reason to ask a large group of racers that have already purchased a speed control to now go out and buy one that is less capable. In my mind there does not seem to have been a flavor of the month with the ESC's. Yes the mamba may have been an advantage for a short period of time but others have already countered it with free upgrades to existing equipment. I really dont see it as a major issue.

Now everything that I just said above is in the context of the DODC and the current rules situation.

Regarding the West Central Il Series you guys need to take chill pill! The dedicated forums are for tracks and series that have agreed to use the DODC rules for all applicable classes. Last time I looked there is not even a dedicated forum for the West Central IL series so I dont know what some of you (who have no dog in the fight) are even complaining about.

Rob

[staatsbmxkid]

All I will say is the Castle software is far from maxed out. As for a smaller speedo from Castleyou will just have to wait and see.;)

thats what i said :thumbsup:

and well said rob

[FULLT1LT]

To my knowledge a track does not have to sign any sort of legal agreement with DODC to be listed in the forums. There is no benefit for being a DODC track other than having a forum. It is entirely up to Rob which tracks he puts a forum up for and which he doesn't.



You're right there is no legal agreement to sign,but the requirements to have a forum is that you run DODC rules.Rob puts tracks that are DODC compliant a forum up.Its not just a decision of whether he wants to or not.




So by your own admission you agree a DODC track is allowed to have non-DODC classes and govern those classes themselves. What YOU FAIL TO UNDERSTAND is that the WCIS Late Model class (we will use this as an example since people continue to bring it up) is currently, and has always been, a NON-DODC class just as much so as an 1/8 LM class or the Truck/EDM class. The FOUR, count them FOUR DIFFERENT TRACK OWNERS all see the need for a non-DODC specific Late Model class to support not only the series, but their local racing. In the end they are responsible for not only keeping racers at their tracks, but acquiring new racers to their tracks. They, AS A GROUP, have come up with what they feel is best for them.



Yes I agree that tracks can run non-DODC classes,but why would you create a class so similar and make people use the same motors,batteries and body rules and then require an obselete esc??Kinda sounds like some of those guys should quit spending money on gyros trying to cheat and fancy body wraps and buy new equipment instead of keeping anyone at THEIR personal level of speed and skill.




Wrong. No one changed any national set of rules because it was never a national set of rules. It was a regional or better yet local set of rules. See above.



You're wrong,the class was based off the national rules and adapted.





This is where we just simply have a clear different of opinion, and I'll leave it at that because this thread is going in circles and accomplishing nothing anyway.



You're right we do have a definite difference of opinion,I want whats best for everyone,not just myself or my buddies.




Here is the second area I think it causing your problems. By your statement here it is obvious you don't even know what the rules will be. You (and others) are bitching about rules that haven't even been published yet. Have you even tried to PERSONALLY/PRIVATELY contact one or more of the track owners to voice your concerns or discuss the matter before bitching about it in public? You obviously don't care to listen to my reasoning, so try listening to their reasoning especially considering it is THEIR SERIES and THEIR RULES. You ran ZERO races in that class in the series last year. So unless you ran the class last year or you take some initiative and discuss your concerns with the track owners privately as a possibly entry for the class this year, how do they know what YOU want until after they make their decisions and see you bitching about it publicly afterwards?




I do know what the rules will be,I have talked to people about it.I was considering running this series this summer but why waste my money.I did try to run a couple series races last year but logistics made it impossible because I was running my own track.I'm not bitching I'm asking why,there is a difference.If you are the man why dont you tell people the ignorant thought process behind it.



The series does offer DODC classes. And yes I do think you are missing the point of a national set of rules. You are also missing the point of the series and some of the classes it has. And as Sonny said previously, until you walk in one of the track owner's shoes you have no idea all the factors they must consider when trying to bring in more entries and food and hobby shop sales. Things seem much more simple when viewing from one perspective, not always when viewing from the other. Since the Tekin and Mamba speed controls Bill, Allen, and Marryville has in stock didn't factor into their decisions, they must realize something else you don't. To find out what that is, try asking them.




You are missing the point of a national rules package,to get everyone on the same page so that we dont have to have a different car and setup for each track in each state.The point is why would'nt you want to move forward instead of backward.I do know both sides and have owned a track and its not easy,but I guarantee you telling my racers that they couldn't run the same esc they did last year would run them off in droves.




I am done posting about this subject as Rob has given his thoughts.Chris you really need to consider who you are a keyboard kowboy to,they may show up at a local track near you and want to discuss it FACE TO FACE, ARE YOU GOING TO HIDE BEHIND YOUR LAPTOP THEN?????

[Team GFRP]

Wow, my head hurts.

[kbr]

if you have a max pro , you better hope you do not have problems with it, they have had mine for 1 month. every time you call them they put you off with some excuse.it is have or have not situation.i am looking to buy 2 more but i will be lucky to get my repaired one back

[Doug D]

Personally, I'd love to see a cheap brushless speed control that is non-programmable that puts out a set continuous current making it a true spec speed control. While I understand a lot of people ran out and bought MMPs, it would be a tough pill to swallow to expect everyone to buy a spec speed control. But lets be honest, there will be another latest and greatest brushless speed control hitting the market, heck, Brian has already said Mamba is coming out with something smaller and better.....it gets old!

It would be soooo nice to just concentrate on chassis set-up and driving and not what the hottest speed control is and then what software version to download into it.

[latemodel13]

I think a rule change should be made. The boosted speedo should have to run a 17.5 while the non boosted runs a 13.5. Sound fair?

[staatsbmxkid]

i didnt get to run in the brushed days. but isnt the reality that back then you had motor of the week battery of the week and speedo of the month? i mean they had all the same advancements then but none the bitching. now rob takes out the battery and motor issue and we have 3 speedos (tekin mmp and novak) that have FREE updates to make them faster at less money than what the brushed high end speedos were and everyones whineing they dont want to buy one.

eaither way spec speedo or current one with new FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! updates you WILL have to buy one of the 2. i say let us play with our speedo and if your whineing that its not fast enough just wait few weeks for the manufacture to get on it and come up with thier update.

i got bombarded by EVERYONE at local track saying when u selling ur tekin for a mamba. like it was the holy grail. but i simply said im gonna just wait few weeks they will have new update and ill be back to normal again and not spend a thing. so to date ive owned ONE brushless speedo since i bought the dodc setup with 1 dodc battery and well motors ive successfully misgeared so thats diff story.

point being ive spent my money this year on new tires new gofast trick looking or otherwise "nifty" parts for my ride. everyone is going way overboard with this thread. buy a tekin or mamba now. or a novak and wait for them to get a competitive program for it and just enjoy racing again. atlealst its not $250 + keyance speedos and 5 dollar packages of bushes by the box

[ROCKET283]

I know the Advanced Electronic Black Diamond was banned at the Open Wheel because of price and availability but has it proven to be a threat on dirt?

[Sonny B]

I know the Advanced Electronic Black Diamond was banned at the Open Wheel because of price and availability but has it proven to be a threat on dirt?




With the DO ban it's probably hard for anyone to say. For what it's worth they did win a class or two at the Bird's and had several in the A's. My guess is they would be on-par with a Tekin or Mamba. LRP will also be in the mix soon.

It was interesting to note in the Touring classes the 13.5 times were only a tenth or two off the open mod cars.

[GoobyDoo]

The whining will never stop...everyone wanted the faster stuff to be available to the general public,it is,they wanted it to be affordable,it is(aside from the AE Black Diamond),and theyre still whining.Everyone uses the GTB for a comparison,it costs $149 from tower,and the MMP is $128 from tower.One you can update so you DONT have to buy a new ESC(which just so happens to be the cheapest of the two),and the other you cant.If you want true spec racing,then complain about everyone running the same tires,chassis,and body as well(with no modifications allowed),if you want true spec racing,go buy a legends car.When the whiners eventually go out and buy a "high dollar speedo of the month",thats about $50 cheaper when you consider the price of programming links if you consider the MMP,thats available to the public,and they still suck...whats to complain about next???I was going to get back into dirt oval racing,but not only has nothing changed,the same people are still throwing/breaking their cars like babies, the technology is good and the options for making competitive racing affordable and equal are available more now than ever,and everyone still whines...the point of RACING is to see who is fastest...Im glad I decided not to run dirt oval anymore...

[Doug D]

The whining will never stop...everyone wanted the faster stuff to be available to the general public,it is,they wanted it to be affordable,it is(aside from the AE Black Diamond),and theyre still whining.Everyone uses the GTB for a comparison,it costs $149 from tower,and the MMP is $128 from tower.One you can update so you DONT have to buy a new ESC(which just so happens to be the cheapest of the two),and the other you cant.If you want true spec racing,then complain about everyone running the same tires,chassis,and body as well(with no modifications allowed),if you want true spec racing,go buy a legends car.When the whiners eventually go out and buy a "high dollar speedo of the month",thats about $50 cheaper when you consider the price of programming links if you consider the MMP,thats available to the public,and they still suck...whats to complain about next???I was going to get back into dirt oval racing,but not only has nothing changed,the same people are still throwing/breaking their cars like babies, the technology is good and the options for making competitive racing affordable and equal are available more now than ever,and everyone still whines...the point of RACING is to see who is fastest...Im glad I decided not to run dirt oval anymore...


"GoobyDoo" - Sounds great! But the reality of the current state of affairs is I don't see this hobby growing and another hobby shop closed up here locally. Aren't you being somewhat hypocritical, what do you think the whole DODC attempt is with DODC motors and batteries????? Ahhhhh a spec class. I don't care how much you argue about how cheap the MMP is, there will be something better coming out, which I'm sure will make your MMP obsolete. Spec speed control or not or maybe a referendum on only allowing a few certain brands of speed controls to run spec for 1-2 years, I don't know what the answer is......but check out Off-Road the Stock SC Truck Class, stock/spec rules in full effect and one of most popular classes to race. Opinion or as you put it "Whining" over!:D

[latemodel13]

Great post Doug. I agree . I think the 13.5 is too fast for a spec motor class. I know for a fact that on a small track the 13.5 will compete with mod with the new speedo tech. I think the motor rule needs to change to 17.5 and 21.5 . I allways prefered running mod but most local tracks have gone to a spec motor of some sort and it is hurting the racing. If you don't have a Tekin or Mamba you are not going to be fast. I have tried to think of what I would do if I was a track owner and the only thing I could think of is either eliminate the class and only run mod or ban the mamba ,tekin or any other speedo that boosts the timing.

[staatsbmxkid]

it is NOT a spec class it is strictly a spec motor and battery to end the motor of week and battery of the week issues. and help the drivers put a few bucks in thier pocket not chaseing motors and batterys. and the other main thing is what was quoted before, it is to be sold at hobbyshops that support the sport. at a set price so that u cant have tower and horizon undercutting hobbyshops and putting them out of business. this way the hobbyshop knows exactly the parts to stock, they dont need to keep up with the motor and battery of the week aswell and they can make a profit by not having to sell it at cost to compete with tower and horizon. you guys missed the point of dodc entirely. and your trying to turn it into something it is not. enjoy the extra cash you have in your pocket and move on.

[GoobyDoo]

Thats my point,if it was an entirely spec class,where are the spec tires,chassis and bodies?I dont have everything to go racing pan cars yet,but I do have a Mamba for it.Is it going to put me at the top?No,because I wont have my setup right.It isnt the speedo of the month that you guys think it is.The RS has been out for quite a while now,and due to Tekin making it updatable,racers didnt have to go out and buy a new one when they had to do something to keep up with Mamba or AE,it was a free update.I know racers who went out and bought Mamba speedos and when its all said and done,they still didnt blow the field away.

[Doug D]

they dont need to keep up with the motor and battery of the week aswell and they can make a profit by not having to sell it at cost to compete with tower and horizon. you guys missed the point of dodc entirely. and your trying to turn it into something it is not. enjoy the extra cash you have in your pocket and move on.

I know its turning into the speed control of the week...;) I get the DODC, trust me;) and its a great thing! If instilling a spec motor and spec battery is NOT a spec class then what is it exactly....LOL Anywho, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Doug D]

Thats my point,if it was an entirely spec class,where are the spec tires,chassis and bodies?I dont have everything to go racing pan cars yet,but I do have a Mamba for it.Is it going to put me at the top?No,because I wont have my setup right.It isnt the speedo of the month that you guys think it is.The RS has been out for quite a while now,and due to Tekin making it updatable,racers didnt have to go out and buy a new one when they had to do something to keep up with Mamba or AE,it was a free update.I know racers who went out and bought Mamba speedos and when its all said and done,they still didnt blow the field away.

Goo - At national level competition it makes a difference. Look at what happened at the Cleveland Indoor Champs last November, those with the AE WHERE ridiculously faster in 1 cell GT and only a few had them. Heck look at the intro of the MMP, that or the Tekin was the speed control to have at the USOWC for 13.5. Never said the MMP was the speed control of the month, by the standard this hobby has taken the MMP is old news..LOL Novak and LRP WILL have something new coming out I assure you;)....just gets old.

Call me crazy.....BUT spec tires would be awesome as well...LOL Allow approved production chassis', no prototypes and approved bodies like the DODC has.

[staatsbmxkid]

makes it more of a STRUCTURED class. helps put cash in pockets of hobbyshops not online wholesalers or ebay stores and keeps our tracks open. and it keeps things even on the major exspenses. like gooby said if u have tekin or mamba then u can sit back and say ok im not gonna win the next few weeks maybe but my update will be out and for FREE i can get back in the game. i feel bad for those with the novak gtb and lrp spheres but end of the day they spent just as much on that as they would ont a tekin or more than they would on mamba and they are the ones whineing. sorry lost my sympathy.

[Doug D]

makes it more of a STRUCTURED class. helps put cash in pockets of hobbyshops not online wholesalers or ebay stores and keeps our tracks open. and it keeps things even on the major exspenses. like gooby said if u have tekin or mamba then u can sit back and say ok im not gonna win the next few weeks maybe but my update will be out and for FREE i can get back in the game. i feel bad for those with the novak gtb and lrp spheres but end of the day they spent just as much on that as they would ont a tekin or more than they would on mamba and they are the ones whineing. sorry lost my sympathy.


Doesn't a SPEC Speed Control support your argument of STRUCTURED racing?!?!?!?...LOL Wouldn't it make it more structured???? But then you call the guys with GTBs and LRPs whiners....LOL

I don't think anyone on here is whining, or looking for your sympathy, I know I'll personally buy whatever I need to when it comes to National Level competition as will most on this thread, but the big picture is growing and sustaining this hobby, and the constant bombardment of the latest greatest speed control or latest software version (even though its free) gets old!

[staatsbmxkid]

Doesn't a SPEC Speed Control support your argument of STRUCTURED racing?!?!?!?...LOL Wouldn't it make it more structured???? But then you call the guys with GTBs and LRPs whiners....LOL

I don't think anyone on here is whining, or looking for your sympathy, I know I'll personally buy whatever I need to when it comes to National Level competition as will most on this thread, but the big picture is growing and sustaining this hobby, and the constant bombardment of the latest greatest speed control or latest software version (even though its free) gets old!

no that makes it a full spec class like the cot that no one wants to watch race or even drive. this is something that helps cut the cost for us to race weekly plain and simple. and yes they are whiney. alot of people thought the lrp's had a TOUCH more bottom end than tekin this summer. so instead of buying tekins they bought an lrp. now they are laps behind. and those with gtbs did the same thing. spec to me means this is what u got nothing more nothing less. pick ur car up at the counter when u show up and leave it there when u leave. i can go race gokarts at local track if i want that.

[Doug D]

no that makes it a full spec class like the cot that no one wants to watch race or even drive.

????Ooooookay, COT is currently the most popular class in PAN oval, it was easily the largest class at the Birds' by a large margin including touring classes. Look at the qual times for COT, the A-Main was separated by 1 second, and the main was a super close race. So I think spec is working, just think more may be needed, i.e. maybe a spec speed control.

2010 will be interesting...LOL:D

[GoobyDoo]

Im running the 13.5 COT class....it is far from a "spec" class...the only thing thats the same from one car to the next is the motor limit and body,you dont have to buy the same make/type of motor as long as its ROAR approved,no speedo limitation outside of the BRL rules,and the same battery limitation as open mod(5000mah 50c 1S,again,not limited to ONE battery).In the 13.5 COT class at the birds,there were racers from top to bottom running every type of ESC,Sean Cochran Was in the show (7.5 and open mod,finished 2nd in open mod)with an LRP SXX Stock Spec. ESC that costs $200(non-programmable).There were GTB's scattered through the snowbirds,as well as LRP's that finished higher than some with Tekin V203 and MMP speedos...Must be those cars with LRP's and GTB's just got lucky....

[Doug D]

Goo - We'll have to agree to disagree.....How many LRPs and GTBs were in the 13.5 COT main???........LOL

Movin on....this horse has been beat into Oblivion

[staatsbmxkid]

i ment the real cot car. manufactures wanting to pull out since there is no real car involved anymore their motors arent used anymore its just what sticker is on the front.

[dirtsprinter]

Just to jump in it's been fun and frustrating with 4 pages of opinions on how or what should be allowed for limited/spec racing. Opinions need to be expressed but after putting them out there sit back and consider other point of views and how between all of them they could make racing funner for all. First is this spec class intended for lesser skill leveled racers so they have a place to start or a class where a pro racer can try to get the most out of every aspect of there equipment regardless of cost. To make it closer racing and level the field from pro to entry level racers a simple scoring system change that sets a predetermined fastest lap allowed (breakout lap time) that will allow anyone to use any ESC LIPO or motor (would be nice to have some motor limit) but if they run faster then the set time they don't get counted. Then everyone is happy that they can choose the equipment they want to purchase or the cost they are willing to spend. Time would be set by a race director for each spec/limited class. Racers capable of running faster then the set time would just tune back throttle end point or turn down boost on ESC and those that usually are run a 1/2 second slower then the set time should then be right in the mix of racing closing the gap from the fast guys and the entry/newer racers. I would not recommend this format for national events but more for local series to keep competition levels high and people coming back.

[curtisp]

Just to jump in it's been fun and frustrating with 4 pages of opinions on how or what should be allowed for limited/spec racing. Opinions need to be expressed but after putting them out there sit back and consider other point of views and how between all of them they could make racing funner for all. First is this spec class intended for lesser skill leveled racers so they have a place to start or a class where a pro racer can try to get the most out of every aspect of there equipment regardless of cost. To make it closer racing and level the field from pro to entry level racers a simple scoring system change that sets a predetermined fastest lap allowed (breakout lap time) that will allow anyone to use any ESC LIPO or motor (would be nice to have some motor limit) but if they run faster then the set time they don't get counted. Then everyone is happy that they can choose the equipment they want to purchase or the cost they are willing to spend. Time would be set by a race director for each spec/limited class. Racers capable of running faster then the set time would just tune back throttle end point or turn down boost on ESC and those that usually are run a 1/2 second slower then the set time should then be right in the mix of racing closing the gap from the fast guys and the entry/newer racers. I would not recommend this format for national events but more for local series to keep competition levels high and people coming back.


Is this something that we are going to see next seson?

[Anytime72]

battery limitation as open mod(5000mah 50c 1S,again,not limited to ONE battery).In the 13.5 COT class at the birds,there were racers from top to bottom running every type of ESC,Sean Cochran Was in the show (7.5 and open mod,finished 2nd in open mod)with an LRP SXX Stock Spec. ESC that costs $200(non-programmable).There were GTB's scattered through the snowbirds,as well as LRP's that finished higher than some with Tekin V203 and MMP speedos...Must be those cars with LRP's and GTB's just got lucky....

I ran COT for the first time and made the B at the birds. COT is alot harder than it looks. Although the cars are all different along with the motors and batteries the class was super tight which made it a tough competitve class. Not sure if the bodies are the reason why but everyone had to run them. I don't think 50C packs made a difference either but some ran them. Don't be so sure that Sean Cochran ran an LRP either, at one time there was something else in the car. He bumped his way into the A from the B in 7.5 and it was a late race incident that gave him the win or at least made it easier for him to win. As for Open Mod is basically turns into who can survive 4 mins. and not the fastest lap.

I will agree the speedo thing has made a mess of everything but can you tell me one thing you have ever bought that has gave you 2 laps? Forget every tire, shock, spring and motor you have ever purchased which in the end cost more than a new MMP speed control does. I don't think there was any way for an organization to see this coming and prevent it from happening.

[dirtsprinter]

Is this something that we are going to see next seson?

Some serious talk about here from racers that are newer, less skill leveled or budget minded in classes that we feel are for entry level or a place for people to start dirt oval racing. At this time the only two are stock truck and LLM. With me not wanting to head toward banning specific ESC, limiting a person's $$$$$ interest in the sport or me being the guy who kicks someone out of a class because they are too good and then have to buy a whole new car. The easiest way this the clock. Then only a few guys bitch (and just take some boost out or set the hipoint back a little) and the newer or less skilled racers will then feel like they are in the race again.

No changes till the next series.

[curtisp]

Some serious talk about here from racers that are newer, less skill leveled or budget minded in classes that we feel are for entry level or a place for people to start dirt oval racing. At this time the only two are stock truck and LLM. With me not wanting to head toward banning specific ESC, limiting a person's $$$$$ interest in the sport or me being the guy who kicks someone out of a class because they are too good and then have to buy a whole new car. The easiest way this the clock. Then only a few guys bitch (and just take some boost out or set the hipoint back a little) and the newer or less skilled racers will then feel like they are in the race again.

No changes till the next series.


Makes sense. :thumbsup:

[spdrcer1]

ok so why hasnt anyone just put out a list of whats legal to run?

[WADE ROWLEY]

ok so why hasnt anyone just put out a list of whats legal to run?

because, for now, everything is legal except the black diamond.


:checkeredflag:

[spdrcer1]

thanks wade..thats what i was looking for..

[WADE ROWLEY]

thanks wade..thats what i was looking for..

that is for the national DODC, local tracks and series may have different restrictions.

:checkeredflag:

[latemod29]

Didn't Bolink and Trinity try doing this back 10 or so years ago with the Street Spec and Legend classes? You had a motor , battey, chassis, and in Trinity's case tires, all mapped out to make an affordable class that would be universal everywhere you went? The street spec didn't last long and legends are still around. The classes were good in thought, but they never blackballed any electronics, even when a guy had a zillion dollar speedo. I never noticed a speedo making a difference wheter it was a 40 Futaba or 250 LRP, the guys that won on a regular basis were the ones who practiced and worked on setup. If somebody thinks a 400 speedo will make them a better driver than let them do it, I'll buy it from them for a quarter of that when they get mad about not winning and quit. I have been there thinking money buys wins, but I know after almost 20 years in and out of the hobby, it never does. You can take the best driver in any form of this sport and give him something new and better he will still win, whether the speedo has an advantage or not. Do i think banning something new is right? No I don't, temporarily dissallowing it from competition, yes, but only if it has been seen in use or tested out by several top drivers to see if it really does have an advantage.

[Doug D]

latemod29 - Brushless speed controls make a huge difference with advanced timing features, and if your runnning a brushless speed control that does not have the advanced timing features YOU WILL be left in the dust by those that do .....:o

[latemod29]

I understand that, but in the hands of a local racer or hobbyracer, the gains are of the high end stuff is moot, but in the hands of a good wheel man it can be seen. Driver skill level has more to do with how equipment works that how much it costs.

[latemodel13]

I think what Doug is telling you is that with the new Speedo tech a 17.5 will be as fast as a 13.5 and a 13.5 will be as fast as a 10.5 without the timing boosted Speedo. It is a well known fact that driving and setup makes a big difference but if they are equal you had better have the boosted speedo or your gonna loose for sure!

[Doug D]

I think what Doug is telling you is that with the new Speedo tech a 17.5 will be as fast as a 13.5 and a 13.5 will be as fast as a 10.5 without the timing boosted Speedo. It is a well known fact that driving and setup makes a big difference but if they are equal you had better have the boosted speedo or your gonna loose for sure!


Stan - Exactly...:thumbsup: You still running the ole DD Sprinter in 13.5? Still remember that car at the 08' USOWC's....;)

[aconsola]

but they never blackballed any electronics, even when a guy had a zillion dollar speedo. I never noticed a speedo making a difference wheter it was a 40 Futaba or 250 LRP, the guys that won on a regular basis were the ones who practiced and worked on setup.

I agree with you that time spent getting a good setup is more important than money spent on the electronics, but the original bolink rules did say:

"We recommend a ceiling price on radios and electronic speed controls of $150.00 each (suggested retail)."

This would have limited the class to the "sport" level esc's

(from http://web.archive.org/web/19990204004401/bolink.com/legend_rule.html )

[racerjmh]

Is it just me or don't all the new speedo's being bandied about start off in sensored mode and then SWITCH to sensorless to get the "boost" they get? Doesn't that alone make them illegal for 13.5? i don't have a dog in this fight but was just curious?

jim

[latemodel13]

No the new Speedos use the sensors all the time . Doug I do still run it some:D. I do wish the OW would be back at C&S though. The rubbered down track is too much like carpet racing for me.

[WYD]

Is it just me or don't all the new speedo's being bandied about start off in sensored mode and then SWITCH to sensorless to get the "boost" they get? Doesn't that alone make them illegal for 13.5? i don't have a dog in this fight but was just curious?

jimThe newer speedos can start off in sensored til the car gets moving and switch to sensorless. Really helps if your sensor wire just happens to get damaged.

They can also run in full sensored mode as well where the sensor wire is needed the all the time during start up and as well as full throttle.

You can get big timing in either mode on some speedos and in sensored only in other brand speedos. Just depends on how that company sets up their programming.

[JohnBoy72]

Anyone know of any online universities offering esc engineering degrees? All this gripes and complaining (not to mention how much technology has evolved) makes has me wonder if I can make a return to competitive dirt oval racing. LOL

[Gary]

Anyone know of any online universities offering esc engineering degrees? All this gripes and complaining (not to mention how much technology has evolved) makes has me wonder if I can make a return to competitive dirt oval racing. LOL

This is funny, why would you bring back post from a year ago.
Stay in today man!!!!
LOL

[signman501]

Anyone know of any online universities offering esc engineering degrees? All this gripes and complaining (not to mention how much technology has evolved) makes has me wonder if I can make a return to competitive dirt oval racing. LOL

It's really not that hard. Find someone who will help you and stay with that guy till you feel comfortable on your own. I'm 60 years old and have been through some serious brain injury problems, only been doing RC stuff for about 5 or 6 years and I can keep up so it can't be too bad. I can't drive a lick and I'm still learning chassis, but I got the electronics down good.

[gordie b]

Street Spec had a $129.00 retail cost for ESCs if your track ran the rules package as Trinity wrote it.

[JohnBoy72]

This is funny, why would you bring back post from a year ago.
Stay in today man!!!!
LOL

Cause I'm searching the forum for an esc for my Havoc. Duh! Lol, actually researching to see if I can find a Novak esc to hang in small block class. I've had the Tekin RS recommended to me. But I've run Novak for years.

[Gary]

I went with the Teken RS Pro, in my Mod Sprint, Love it. Updates are great don't have to go out and buy new to keep up with new and improved. Guys that run them will help with settings.
We run the Novak GTB ESC in our 13.5 Late Mods here. Wish we would switch to spec mode ESC but o well it is what it is.
Life is Good when it is fun

[JohnBoy72]

Yeah, I hear good things about the RS. Think I'm gonna read up on the Kinetics. About these upgrades, did I read right where it costs a pretty penny?

[staatsbmxkid]

hate to say it but dont believe there is a novak thats in the hunt if u want to becompetitive unless your running roar spec mode stuff. if u plan to run small block in the wdra races this summer now that ur back in ny then that should be competitive. there is list of legal speedos there. but anything in 13.5 dodc or outlaw 17.5 class the tekin is about the only option.

[JohnBoy72]

Well I'm constantly bugging the crap out of Shanzilla so worst case, I'll follow his lead. He's already suggested RS, Havoc and passport charger. But from the sounds of it, all spare money is going into karts this year. But I'm hoping to wheel some RC stuff in the near future without getting a divorce.

[staatsbmxkid]

ill go with rs a apex an pulsar charger ;-)