Rubber Tires

[RacerX11]

There has been some talk and there is interest. After the last track Points race, gas truck class will switch over to Rubber tires for the outdoor season. any thoughts about this?

[JohnnyO]

FORGET IT!!!!!!!!!!!........... Maybe you guys forgot how evil a truck can be........ if you don't know what to do with the rubber tires they're JUNK!!!!!!!!!........... It will be worst then ever, I hate to admit this, but I might be the King of VooDoo on rubber truck tires....... it AIN'T EASY.......... Special foam inside each corner, special VooDoo for each tire, special break in etc etc............ Don't go there!!!!!!!!.......... If Joe average can't get his truck working on foam, rubber tires will make it worst, Trust Me, as Lou would say "True Story"

[ctsieber]

there has been some talk and there is interest. After the last track points race, gas truck class will switch over to rubber tires for the outdoor season. Any thoughts about this?


lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Animal]

There has been some talk and there is interest. After the last track Points race, gas truck class will switch over to Rubber tires for the outdoor season. any thoughts about this?


is this at Bumps and Jumps out door track? or which track were you referencing ?

[RacerX11]

is this at Bumps and Jumps out door track? or which track were you referencing ?

I was talking about Bumps and jumps.

[RacerX11]

FORGET IT!!!!!!!!!!!........... Maybe you guys forgot how evil a truck can be........ if you don't know what to do with the rubber tires they're JUNK!!!!!!!!!........... It will be worst then ever, I hate to admit this, but I might be the King of VooDoo on rubber truck tires....... it AIN'T EASY.......... Special foam inside each corner, special VooDoo for each tire, special break in etc etc............ Don't go there!!!!!!!!.......... If Joe average can't get his truck working on foam, rubber tires will make it worst, Trust Me, as Lou would say "True Story"

I thought racing was better on the Rubber street tire. A lot closer racing as far as lap and times. With the foams it your setup is off just a little, your done. Also dealing with traction compounds and tire chunking can happen first time you use them. With the rubber tire, it was more forgiving, they last longer, and are cheaper in the long run. When I look back at 2008 when we were still running rubber tires, there were more people racing. From a competition stand point. Going back to rubber tires sounds like a good thing to me.

[rj14]

I thought racing was better on the Rubber street tire. A lot closer racing as far as lap and times. With the foams it your setup is off just a little, your done. Also dealing with traction compounds and tire chunking can happen first time you use them. With the rubber tire, it was more forgiving, they last longer, and are cheaper in the long run. When I look back at 2008 when we were still running rubber tires, there were more people racing. From a competition stand point. Going back to rubber tires sounds like a good thing to me.

That's funny......went through more rubbers than I have foams. Guess I was racing in a different PA than you were.

If you look at the rules....most tracks have an open tire policy, so nobody is really stopping you from going back to rubbers. We fought hard for an open tire rule. Bumps is open to either, so nobody is stopping you from running them.

[RacerX11]

That's funny......went through more rubbers than I have foams. Guess I was racing in a different PA than you were.

If you look at the rules....most tracks have an open tire policy, so nobody is really stopping you from going back to rubbers. We fought hard for an open tire rule. Bumps is open to either, so nobody is stopping you from running them.

If you read earlier that the talk was for the trucks to switch back to rubber tires for the summer. which means no foam tires allowed. Chris knows about this and is planning to talk to other local truck racers about it.

Nothing against you rj, I do respect your opinion about this

[kerstetter]

My thought's exactly you want to run rubber tires run them no 1 is stopping you but dont try to enforce every1 to run a rubber tires and as far as better racing the comes down to the people in the race and understanding what your car can and cant do

[JAC9]

i think the limited classes need put on rubber tires as well.

[siggy99x]

i think the limited classes need put on rubber tires as well.


Rubber tires are a joke for dirt oval racing go offroad racing if you want to run rubber tires. And who is going to police it anyway? Basically its a run whatever you feel since there is no tech.

[sprinter117]

i think the limited classes need put on rubber tires as well.


LOL , Even I don't think rubber tires are a good idea and we all know how I feel about rubber and foam! The way everyone is racing now and used to foam going back to rubber would create ALOT of broken parts and destroyed cars. I love racing on rubber but foam is more forgiving and "allows" the average Joe to go wide open without having a "great" setup now put him back on rubber and he will destroy his car and not beable to figure out why.(trust me I tried it) As far as cost goes we are racing and racing is not cheap however if you really look at it foam or rubber you probably equal out on cost. Foam cost more, rubber wears out quick on hard packed surfaces.

just my :twocents:

[kerstetter]

lol yeah me 2i think the limited classes need put on rubber tires as well.

[BOOSIER RACING TIRES]

I plan on running the truck class again this summer on Wednesday nights at Bumps and I can reassure you it won't be on rubber tires. Open tire rule means just that but if you want to run rubber no one is stopping you.

Why is it some are trying to slow things down, isn't racing about going fast, not only racing the competition but also the clock and the track ? For those that want to do this, buy a Slash and race it in the Slash class where rubber tires are mandatory......

[ctsieber]

I think his pit crew told him to run rubber tires


I plan on running the truck class again this summer on Wednesday nights at Bumps and I can reassure you it won't be on rubber tires. Open tire rule means just that but if you want to run rubber no one is stopping you.

Why is it some are trying to slow things down, isn't racing about going fast, not only racing the competition but also the clock and the track ? For those that want to do this, buy a Slash and race it in the Slash class where rubber tires are mandatory......

[JohnnyO]

I thought racing was better on the Rubber street tire. A lot closer racing as far as lap and times. With the foams it your setup is off just a little, your done. Also dealing with traction compounds and tire chunking can happen first time you use them. With the rubber tire, it was more forgiving, they last longer, and are cheaper in the long run. When I look back at 2008 when we were still running rubber tires, there were more people racing. From a competition stand point. Going back to rubber tires sounds like a good thing to me.

Chris,
Wake Up!! and Smell the Traction Compound!!!!!! I'd tell you, you were out to lunch, but you're not even at the lunch table!!!!!........ When you look back at 08?!?!?!? What about 07?, 06?, 05? (oh that's right you weren't racing then)......... Heck what about 1998?....... or 1988?..... I don't mean to bust your bubble out here in a public forum, but you're dead wrong about everything on this topic......... slap some rubber junk on your truck and see if you're as fast and if the truck is easier to drive!!!....... You gotta be kidding!!!!!!! As for competition being closer, NOTHING could be further from the truth......... You must not know anything about the rubber tire VooDoo dance!!........ I've had tires so soft I burned up a right rear in one run!! (Yes One 4 minute heat @ Newville)........... so please stop this silliness about rubber tire, and please don't tell us that you think we should go back to side exhaust engines, and crystals in our radios too............

Hope there's no hard feeling,

johnO

[kerstetter]

great post chris keep them coming

[brockh]

rubbers are good for one thing and it ain't racin...;)

[siggy99x]

rubbers are good for one thing and it ain't racin...;)


Best thing i seen on this topic!!!:thumbsup::beer:

[mike]

Now this topic is funny!!!!!!!

[Todd Putnam]

rubbers are good for one thing and it ain't racin...;)

Me Tonto - Tonto ride bareback.

[rj14]

If you read earlier that the talk was for the trucks to switch back to rubber tires for the summer. which means no foam tires allowed. Chris knows about this and is planning to talk to other local truck racers about it.

Nothing against you rj, I do respect your opinion about this


If you look back at the records, I have run a truck on the PA Tour while it wasn't a barn burner, when I ran it, I found it much easier to drive on foams. In fact the very same truck I ran will be hitting the track again this summer. Only this time it will be my 9 yr old son driving it. It will be on foams as well. I think you would find it a hard sell on a weekend program to get trucks back on rubbers. It may be one thing on a Wednesday night at Bumps, BUT in general I don't see the trucks outdoors at the other tracks going to rubber tires.

Maybe this is a situation of some of the more experienced drivers taking the time to sit down with some of the newer guys and help them fine tune their equipment and set-ups for the way you guys are driving and not necessarily the way they drive them.

I personally don't see how making the limited cars go to rubber would be adventageous. The transition to the open classes would be much easier with more constants involved.

Do you really want guys transitioning from limited to open and getting frustrated by getting used to both more power and tire combinations?

Lets not reinvent the wheel here.

just my humble :twocents:

[RacerX11]

I think there are times that I am as bad as Brian Reigle when it comes to causing mayhem on these forums.

Johnny, none taken. When I said 2008, that was when I got back into racing. I raced in 2004 at Bumps with a losi truck. Had to go out for work and relationship reasons (the woman I was dating at the time thought this was stupid.:thumbsdown: Had started a new job at the time too.)

I guess I shouldn't say that Chris said something about limited sprints only allowed to run rubber tires at the Freeze huh....

Also. Knock it off with the pit crew thing. I heard enough of it

I'm surprised that Reigle hasn't posted on this yet.

[Rcer19]

Here we go again with this stupid chit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
using rubbers is like taking a shower with your cloths on

[RacerX11]

using rubbers is like taking a shower with your cloths on

Are you talking about your personal life here?

[rj14]

I guess I shouldn't say that Chris said something about limited sprints only allowed to run rubber tires at the Freeze huh....



Search your feelings...you know this won't happen.

He was just saying it to get a rise out of people in the room.

[bumps and jumps rc]

Me Tonto - Tonto ride bareback.

Wow I missed this whole thread!

Maybe TP is right we should just run them bareback - for all future racing
No Covering at all, of course the more goo the better :D

That's it I found a way to knock down traction - no foams or rubbers - plastic only!

[races65]

I thought racing was better on the Rubber street tire. A lot closer racing as far as lap and times. With the foams it your setup is off just a little, your done. Also dealing with traction compounds and tire chunking can happen first time you use them. With the rubber tire, it was more forgiving, they last longer, and are cheaper in the long run. When I look back at 2008 when we were still running rubber tires, there were more people racing. From a competition stand point. Going back to rubber tires sounds like a good thing to me.


I agree 110%

[WYD]

FORGET IT!!!!!!!!!!!........... Maybe you guys forgot how evil a truck can be........ if you don't know what to do with the rubber tires they're JUNK!!!!!!!!!........... It will be worst then ever, I hate to admit this, but I might be the King of VooDoo on rubber truck tires....... it AIN'T EASY.......... Special foam inside each corner, special VooDoo for each tire, special break in etc etc............ Don't go there!!!!!!!!.......... If Joe average can't get his truck working on foam, rubber tires will make it worst, Trust Me, as Lou would say "True Story"Wow you put that much time into rubber tires. I ran that cheap XTM truck and I ran Proline tires with 2 stage proline foams and thats it. Even the tour race at Liberty Valley I did well at and at Bumps all the time I only ever ran this combo. I spent next to zero money on tires and could easily run for months on a set of 4 tires. I guess I must of just been lucky but racing on rubber was never more fun and cheap at least for me. I only ever had one set of tires with me at a time.

I feel rubber tires make you have to drive and setup more than strapping on a set of foam tires so your glues to the track. To me foams are the opposite are for guys that have trouble setting up a truck and the foams are a crutch.

[Nitro 24]

Ain't notin wrong with kickin-it-old-school!:thumbsup:

[mikeschellracing]

i for one liked the rubber tire days. the whole bs about soaking tires and using 4 different inserts, to be competative i don't get. i ran a rtr associated truck with the stock .15 engine, striker 2 tires and a roadkill body and won plenty of truck races, including the newville champs race, and the 2005 dirtoval.com east coast points. i didn't soak my tire in anything crazy to soften the rubber. just got my truck setup and had a blast. also i have never worn a set of rubber truck tires out in one 4-min. run. what i liked about rubber tires was you didn't spend half your day behind a tire lathe. with that being said it would kill racing at this point to try to go back to rubber tires here in pa. to many people with to much invested in foams and lathes etc. don't want ot step on and toes here but maybe racer x-11, has it atleast partaily rite. the truck class used to be a begginer class or a place to get started. in my opinion the truck class should be a begginer class on a spec rubber tire with a price limit on your engine, etc. it should also be a breakout class with a 3 year or so many wins you need to move onto a llm etc. just my :twocents:

[RacerX11]

Does anyone know Mike Erk? He knew how to get rubber tires to work. Very consistent and was easily running 40-45 lap runs. He could never get his truck to work too well on foams. I learned a thing or two from him when I got back into this

[kerstetter]

........

[RacerX11]

Its funny that most people complaining here DON'T RUN TRUCKS. You all think that I am the only one who is complaining about this, there are others that want to see rubber tires make a comeback, not just me. You all seen the other post. At least I was the first to open up about this. If you don't run trucks then fine, don't run them. This doesn't affect you.

Second, you don't know anything about my gear, or how I drive. I got my truck to where It works right now. Late model, different story. But I am not talking that.


I guess no one cares what I think. If you all want me out of all this hobby, tell it to my face, it all seems that you guys don't want me here anyway.

[kerstetter]

.........

[Nitro 24]

Sombody needs a hug

[peanutsprint9]

Its funny that most people complaining here DON'T RUN TRUCKS. You all think that I am the only one who is complaining about this, there are others that want to see rubber tires make a comeback, not just me. You all seen the other post. At least I was the first to open up about this. If you don't run trucks then fine, don't run them. This doesn't affect you.

Second, you don't know anything about my gear, or how I drive. I got my truck to where It works right now. Late model, different story. But I am not talking that.


I guess no one cares what I think. If you all want me out of all this hobby, tell it to my face, it all seems that you guys don't want me here anyway.


Ok, so if this post would come to pass...You would be the first person on here in about a month asking - "Where have all the trucks gone". The same goes for the limited classes, watch them fall by the wayside, just for the sake of running rubber tires. I remember the days of Newville running rubber back in the day, and I hated every minute of it...of course I was just starting out then, so that is probably why LOL!

As far as the getting feedback from folks who do not run trucks...you might want to step back off that one - almost all the people who have left feedback on this topic have at one time or another raced trucks, and some still do once in a while just for kicks.

And finally. I can see the classified section "blowing up" immediately after this would happen. Trucks and TG motors for sale -- CHEAP

I guess no one cares what I think. If you all want me out of all this hobby, tell it to my face, it all seems that you guys don't want me here anyway.[/quote]......Maybe you don't want yourself here. What ever happen to following the same rules that are already in place, and not piss and moan about it. Work on your setup, get you're driving right, and good things will happen.

By the way, if it's the price, or availability of foams for trucks that you have a problem with, pm me, or talk to me at the track...I might just be able to help you out.

[sprinter117]

I guess no one cares what I think. If you all want me out of all this hobby, tell it to my face, it all seems that you guys don't want me here anyway.

Don't take this stuff so seriously it will take all of the fun out of it! This should be fun to EVERYONE! Three years ago I took everything way to seriously and it took all the fun out of the hobby for me and for the most part totally ruined it for me I love racing of any kind but all the B/S that goes with it ruined it. Race and have fun! I loved racing on rubber tires and would rather race on them myself however at this point I don't think going back would be that good of an idea. That does not mean that I or anyone else wants you out of the hobby! Like I said Race and Have fun!

Bill

[padale70]

The rules allow you to run rubber tires in all classes so if that is what you prefer no one is telling anyone they can't as a matter of fact I know a guy who ran rubber tires outdoors on his truck for most of the season and finished better(usually 1 or 2) then a lot of guys on foam tires

As far a setup goes this is my first year I'm this hobby/sport and I have asked a million questions( thanks for all the help) and I tried running rubber tires once it was horible but in the same respect I have learned that you can't just slap a set of foams on and not worry about setup I would hate to see anyone leave this hobby/sport over some thing like this just my :twocents:

[RacerX11]

Sorry about that. I get this way sometimes. With all the stress I deal with right now with work and with my family, this hobby allows me to get away from it (even if it is for a day or few hours). I kinda forgot why I posted this thread in a way. I do miss the days racing on the rubber tires. Who knows, maybe 5 years from now we all could be back on them and the foams would be like silicone tires when they were banned.

Things change. ya never know what might happen next.

[signman501]

I have been out of trucks for a couple of years now but he might have something to think about. Trucks used to be really big but have fallen off the last couple of years. Could be partly do to the economy and partly do to hi-tech trucks (can't remember what we used to call them). The class could be a lower cost, beginner class again if we thought more about how it is handled. Stock chassis, rubber tires, win three or more and you must move to higher class the next season. Just something to think about.

[mikeschellracing]

I have been out of trucks for a couple of years now but he might have something to think about. Trucks used to be really big but have fallen off the last couple of years. Could be partly do to the economy and partly do to hi-tech trucks (can't remember what we used to call them). The class could be a lower cost, beginner class again if we thought more about how it is handled. Stock chassis, rubber tires, win three or more and you must move to higher class the next season. Just something to think about.
that's what i was thinking glen. newville used to have a sportsman truck and a expert truck class.
the truck class has already died off pretty bad from what it used to be, and new guys running against guy's with 5- or more years exp. doesn't help. this was one of the reason's i quit running truck around 5 years ago[to allow the class to be there for the new racer]. trucks are a blast and make a great beginner class. if there is enough expert truck racers who want to run truck than that's fine run them separatly. that way it gives the new guy a chance to win against racers with there exp. level. the other thing is when a new guy who maybe having problem's with handling, or maybe just need's some track time to sharpen there driving skills, doesn't want to run with the guy's who are twice as fast and maybe going to give them some lip if they happen to spin or have some problem's holding there line. we where all new racer's at one time, and making it fun and affordable for the new guy to race will insure the furture of dirt oval.
if you are running truck and want to move up to a llm or sprint, but need some setup help just ask. there are plenty of racer's who are willing to help out.

[peanutsprint9]

that's what i was thinking glen. newville used to have a sportsman truck and a expert truck class.
the truck class has already died off pretty bad from what it used to be, and new guys running against guy's with 5- or more years exp. doesn't help. this was one of the reason's i quit running truck around 5 years ago[to allow the class to be there for the new racer]. trucks are a blast and make a great beginner class. if there is enough expert truck racers who want to run truck than that's fine run them separatly. that way it gives the new guy a chance to win against racers with there exp. level. the other thing is when a new guy who maybe have problem's with handling, or maybe just need's some track time to sharpen there driving skills, doesn't want to run with the guy's who are twice as fast and maybe going to give them some lip if they happen to spin or have some problem's hold there line. we where all new racer's at one time, and making it fun and affordable for the new guy to race will insure the furture of dirt oval.
if you are running truck and want to move up to a llm or sprint, but need some setup help just ask. there are plenty of racer's who are willing to help out.

Could not have worded that any better Mike. Very well said.

[BOOSIER RACING TIRES]

The truck class is not dying because of foam tires, experienced drivers, etc. It has steadily been dying since the implementation of the "limited" classes. I myself started in the truck class, but the truck class is not what got me interested in rc racing, it was Sprint cars, Late models and EDM's. Beginners are now bypassing the truck class and utilizing the limited classes as a beginning point.

[JohnnyO]

The truck class is not dying because of foam tires, experienced drivers, etc. It has steadily been dying since the implementation of the "limited" classes. I myself started in the truck class, but the truck class is not what got me interested in rc racing, it was Sprint cars, Late models and EDM's. Beginners are now bypassing the truck class and utilizing the limited classes as a beginning point.


I agree with Brian 100% all THE BASHING AND CRASHING that use to happen in the Truck Class now happens in the Limited Late Model!

PS Chris, don't even think about quiting, I enjoy racing with you on Wed nights, your doing great!, I just don't agree with your thinking on rubber tires....... no hard feeling I hope..........

B&J tried two truck classes a few years ago, it didn't work well......... maybe an Expert Truck Class with Named Drivers.......... run them together, score them separately

johnO

[bumps and jumps rc]

Holy crap - I figured it out someone said SILICONE

that's the answer, I think it would still be bareback - just using a different tool ;)

[mike]

I say blame it all on Newville !! :D Mike Schell and Brian Bowie is right. The one problem was the associated truck was the truck of choice. And when they changed their truck to the GT2 it was not as popular in the dirt oval world. And about the same time is when the limited classes started As far as the Novice class we had that is when you basically ran a truck out of the box ,other than changing the tires to strikers and putting in a after market clutch. Now I think you have to change so many things to be competitive that you can buy a Custom works , bms. putnam or kranzel car and be ready to go

This is just my 2 cents

Mike

[mikeschellracing]

i agree with what your saying brian. but how many times have you seen a racer with 5+ years experience [running a limited car] who has regional and national level wins get upset with a beginner racer who is just trying to get around the track and have some fun. this is what turns the new guy off from racing. it is cheaper to get into racing a entry level truck on rubber tires, than it is to get into a limited car. i'm just saying a entry level truck class for the guy who is having a hard enough time trying to get around the track, yet alone racing with guy's of a who as 5-10 years experience. this help's the new guy and the guy who is trying to run the limited class who is having a tough time when he hit's the new guys car and they both need a garbage bag to take there cars home. there are quite a few racer's who have been upset with the newer racer for this reason. remember some of the newer racer's need a place to play while they learn to drive these things.

[Animal]

I was talking about Bumps and jumps.

I say blame it all on Newville !! :D Mike Schell and Brian Bowie is right. The one problem was the associated truck was the truck of choice. And when they changed their truck to the GT2 it was not as popular in the dirt oval world. And about the same time is when the limited classes started As far as the Novice class we had that is when you basically ran a truck out of the box ,other than changing the tires to strikers and putting in a after market clutch. Now I think you have to change so many things to be competitive that you can buy a Custom works , bms. putnam or kranzel car and be ready to go

This is just my 2 cents

Mike


i dont believe the blame is to be laid on anyone!
the USOW decided not to allow trucks to run three years ago! since then the truck class has been on a downward spiral.

It doesnt matter which truck you have what tires are on it, the fast guys will still be fast, those of us that are back markers will still be backmarkers.

[FossilRC]

:checkeredflag:I think Mike S. hit it about the new guy. Think back when you were new, no one and I mean no one could drive an RC the first time they put a radio in their hands. And now an experienced driver wants to scream at new people when they get in the way. We all got in the way at onetime. Give new people a chance or there will be no new blood in this hobby.

[siggy99x]

:checkeredflag:I think Mike S. hit it about the new guy. Think back when you were new, no one and I mean no one could drive an RC the first time they put a radio in their hands. And now an experienced driver wants to scream at new people when they get in the way. We all got in the way at onetime. Give new people a chance or there will be no new blood in this hobby.


But there is no beginner class for them to race We went over this months ago a 13.5 car is way faster then any stock 27 turn car ever was. There needs to be a sportsman class that resembles current day dirt oval cars maybe the break out idea would work any laps faster then4.6 would not count during the run for both a sportsman electric lm and a limited nitro lm

[FossilRC]

Man don't ya think 4.6 is a little quick. Shoot I can run sportsman, I've never went that fast. LOL

[siggy99x]

hey we can go slower for you LOL!

[kerstetter]

I like the idea of the sportsman class but forget about seperating it it should be run what you brung its just about getting time on the track and racing with others anyway so dont seperate it in anyway so there can be a decect amount of people to run with I think this would make for the best way for new people to get there feet wet and also buy whatever they want to run as well But there is no beginner class for them to race We went over this months ago a 13.5 car is way faster then any stock 27 turn car ever was. There needs to be a sportsman class that resembles current day dirt oval cars maybe the break out idea would work any laps faster then4.6 would not count during the run for both a sportsman electric lm and a limited nitro lm

[rj14]

Every 6 mos we have this debate.

Does this mean we are doing something wrong?

Lets put this rubber deal to rest once and for all, we have an open tire rule. We all agree in the spirit of competetion it should stay that way. We have spent quite a few $$ on our equipment and we should be allowed the freedom of what tire we feel will give us the best chance to win on a given day. You know what? Maybe just maybe when the track get blacker than tar and we are traction rolling, who knows, someone may come on the track and spank us on rubber tires. But that should be an option, NOT a mandate.

Chris- silicone...really? Will the irony never cease!

OK on to the secondary debate here.... Trucks..I have nothing to add anymore, honestly I am truely baffled as how to fix the answers to helping the new blood.

Maybe we need to accept that if you want to race dirt oval w/ a competetive purpose built car, that will aid in the learning curve of both driving and set-ups, it will cost at least a grand before all is said and done to get into it.

[JohnnyO]

Every 6 mos we have this debate.

Does this mean we are doing something wrong?

Lets put this rubber deal to rest once and for all, we have an open tire rule. We all agree in the spirit of competetion it should stay that way. We have spent quite a few $$ on our equipment and we should be allowed the freedom of what tire we feel will give us the best chance to win on a given day. You know what? Maybe just maybe when the track get blacker than tar and we are traction rolling, who knows, someone may come on the track and spank us on rubber tires. But that should be an option, NOT a mandate.

Chris- silicone...really? Will the irony never cease!

OK on to the secondary debate here.... Trucks..I have nothing to add anymore, honestly I am truely baffled as how to fix the answers to helping the new blood.

Maybe we need to accept that if you want to race dirt oval w/ a competetive purpose built car, that will aid in the learning curve of both driving and set-ups, it will cost at least a grand before all is said and done to get into it.


WOW!! I can't believe I TOTALLY Agree with RJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


No easy fix, we racers are, our own worst enemy......... there's a new cheep class called Slash, remember???.......... and nobody wants to race it!!!!!!.......... Mr Newbie comes to the track sees the Hi Speed racing and gets excited, next he buys a FAST Car to be "Competitive" and we all know what happens next........... this has been going on forever!........... I'll bet the same thing happen 2000 years ago racing Chariots

[FossilRC]

hey we can go slower for you LOL!

Thanks buddy, I feel better now. LOL:D

[FossilRC]

Every 6 mos we have this debate.

Does this mean we are doing something wrong?



Chris- silicone...really? Will the irony never cease!



Maybe we need to accept that if you want to race dirt oval w/ a competetive purpose built car, that will aid in the learning curve of both driving and set-ups, it will cost at least a grand before all is said and done to get into it.

What we need to accept is that alot of new racers can't fathom spending over $1000 to see if they like having fun racing.

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

I must agree with JohnnyO 100%. Trucks on Rubber are like trying to drive blindfolded with a witchdoctor running his TX on the same channel as you! LOL. Foams on trucks are much more "manageable" for beginners and can really help get you within reach of keeping up with the fast guys. (And it doesn't hurt to have some of the experienced guys helping you out!)

I've been on both sides of the rubber/foam debate and I can see both sides. But to be honest on high-bite clay like we enjoy in this area of the country foam is better. It's cheaper in the long run and for guys like me takes all the Voo-Doo of rubber tire breakin/prep as Johnny mentioned.

I guess I have a question for the creator of the thread and the proponents of Rubber tires. (I don't want to assume what they are after so I'll ask)

What is it that you think Rubber Tires over Foam will accomplish? What's your end goal that you think switching exclusively to Rubber will achieve?

I use to see Rubber tires as a means to slow down racing speeds, save money (in trucks only), and to limit the amount of "Motor" a guy could use to go fast.

Now was rubber tire racing slower? I think so in many instances. Was rubber tire racing saving money? (trucks MAYBE, everything else yeah right. NOPE) And did rubber tire racing limit the amount of "Motor" a guy could use to go fast? I think in some instances definately.

I think what I feel is needed is a means to keep speeds down in certain classes. Trucks would be a class that would qualify.

Rather than go down a de-evolving path to Rubber why not just make a "SPEC" foam tire compound? We've got TG "limited" engines. 13.5 DODC motors and Lipos. WHY NOT A SPEC COMPOUND FOAM TIRE?????

We've got Durometer gauges. seemingly easy to tech. Why not say Trucks must run a 45+ Duro tire? that way it's a foam tire which lasts a LOT longer than Rubber. It doesn't ballon and cause all the rubber tire issues of old, and since you can't have a tire lower than 45duro it would help keep the Super Soft compounds out of the fold and costs down....?

Couldn't a spec foam work? For me it seems to be the best of both worlds.... IDK. Just my humble .02 ;)

[FossilRC]

The only problem with Durometer spec, is that once a tire is grooved and soaked in all kinds of compound, the duro won't read the same so a racer could end up with tires that he isn't allowed to use anymore.:)

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

The only problem with Durometer spec, is that once a tire is grooved and soaked in all kinds of compound, the duro won't read the same so a racer could end up with tires that he isn't allowed to use anymore.:)

Yeah there would have to be some testing involved. I mean I hear 100% what your saying. But on the same hand I think that if you took a 45 Duro tire baseline and held to that duro reading it would keep guys from using compound in the first place since it would make it too soft and wouldn't pass tech. Grooving to a degree I have noticed does effect the duro reading but it's the chemicals used to condition/soften a compound that really changes duro readings.

IDK. Just seems to be the best of both worlds. Foam tire and hard enough that it isn't "Glued" to the surface. less traction ='s lower speeds.

[kerstetter]

thats not always the case either though a place like bumps and jumps when the track gets black a purple tire can actually have more bite so this is a very tough subject Yeah there would have to be some testing involved. I mean I hear 100% what your saying. But on the same hand I think that if you took a 45 Duro tire baseline and held to that duro reading it would keep guys from using compound in the first place since it would make it too soft and wouldn't pass tech. Grooving to a degree I have noticed does effect the duro reading but it's the chemicals used to condition/soften a compound that really changes duro readings.

IDK. Just seems to be the best of both worlds. Foam tire and hard enough that it isn't "Glued" to the surface. less traction ='s lower speeds.

[Rcer19]

this is turning out to be an interesting topic to read,

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

thats not always the case either though a place like bumps and jumps when the track gets black a purple tire can actually have more bite so this is a very tough subject

You know I was thinkin' about bumps when I was replying. LOL. About how it was so black that someone mentioned "just bring your rims" No foam needed. LOL.

I know the last time I went to bumps there was so much compound in the surface it almost seemed to "Sweat" because it was so saturated.

You're right it's tough. :thumbsup:;) But if it was EASY... LOL.

I remember a few years ago tracks were trying to do away with compound so that it wouldn't get to be that bad but as seems to always be the case when 8 out of 10 drivers want something they get it...

[RacerX11]

d.

I guess I have a question for the creator of the thread and the proponents of Rubber tires. (I don't want to assume what they are after so I'll ask)

What is it that you think Rubber Tires over Foam will accomplish? What's your end goal that you think switching exclusively to Rubber will achieve?

I use to see Rubber tires as a means to slow down racing speeds, save money (in trucks only), and to limit the amount of "Motor" a guy could use to go fast.

Now was rubber tire racing slower? I think so in many instances. Was rubber tire racing saving money? (trucks MAYBE, everything else yeah right. NOPE) And did rubber tire racing limit the amount of "Motor" a guy could use to go fast? I think in some instances definately.

I think what I feel is needed is a means to keep speeds down in certain classes. Trucks would be a class that would qualify.



I think you answered it Perfectly.

And second, I am not going to quit racing. Just been having some bad days lately, so don't take my out burst seriously.

[bumps and jumps rc]

While we are talking - how would you feel about a spec tire, lets just say in limited classes - a very hard, abrasion resistant tire - one that wouldn't be able to be cut apart and have sections glued back so people couldn't cheat?

The whole idea behind the figure 8 race was to get some people out who have not tried oval - I know it's still not but it is better to try something than do nothing at all. I really thought the slash oval would have had a few races this year.

[kerstetter]

it seems to me most of the newer guys are either running 13.5 latemodle or limited latemodel. Spec tires whats it really going to acomplish the better drivers will still win and all you did was force people to buy another tire While we are talking - how would you feel about a spec tire, lets just say in limited classes - a very hard, abrasion resistant tire - one that wouldn't be able to be cut apart and have sections glued back so people couldn't cheat?

The whole idea behind the figure 8 race was to get some people out who have not tried oval - I know it's still not but it is better to try something than do nothing at all. I really thought the slash oval would have had a few races this year.

[bumps and jumps rc]

it seems to me most of the newer guys are either running 13.5 latemodle or limited latemodel. Spec tires whats it really going to acomplish the better drivers will still win and all you did was force people to buy another tire

yes but you would only need to buy one tire - so it would be cheaper for all the racers - also I believe by specifying a tire you could use a hard tire - slowing the cars down and making racing closer. It is done in almost every form of rc. Just my curiosity, why wouldn't it work in DO?

[WYD]

Man don't ya think 4.6 is a little quick. Shoot I can run sportsman, I've never went that fast. LOLRemember Fossils are not ment to be fast, it takes millions of years to make them.:D

[kerstetter]

ok then you got traction compounds it pretty easy to soften a tire if you would have hand out tires maybe but I dont see how you would ever regulate this you really going to have some1 stand there and durometer 4 tires on everybodys car yes but you would only need to buy one tire - so it would be cheaper for all the racers - also I believe by specifying a tire you could use a hard tire - slowing the cars down and making racing closer. It is done in almost every form of rc. Just my curiosity, why wouldn't it work in DO?

[RacerX11]

Spec Tire huh. I would be for that. Less gear I need to travel with. Would be nice only needing 1 set of tires instead of hauling 5 or 6 sets with me.

So Chris, what tire would you have in mind?

[WYD]

Guys have no problems with the open tire rule until someone would put in the time and effort to find a rubber tire that works great (Ones are made that work to) and wins with it. Then I can already hear it now that is illegal!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It might not ever happen but we have rubber tires out now for other types of racing that make huge traction and could be adapted to dirt oval. Not sure anyone would put in the time to make it work but it is not inconceivable that it can't happen. I would feel bad for the first guy that does it because he will have so many crying oval guys it will be like the funeral for Micheal Jackson!!!!!!!!!!! Guys say its ok until it happens then it would be a totally different story.

[kerstetter]

You think you would only need 1 set chris what happens when you chunk 1 Spec Tire huh. I would be for that. Less gear I need to travel with. Would be nice only needing 1 set of tires instead of hauling 5 or 6 sets with me.

So Chris, what tire would you have in mind?

[RacerX11]

Kerstetter. Why not do something simmilar as when we Tech TG's to see if they are stock. Have a fee to check to see if they are legal, and if caught illegal, we put a ban on the person for a month or however. I think you get what I mean

[RacerX11]

You think you would only need 1 set chris what happens when you chunk 1

Yeah I forgot about that.:confused: Maybe 2 sets max would be all I carry.

[FossilRC]

Remember Fossils are not ment to be fast, it takes millions of years to make them.:D

Yes but remember fossil's last for millions of years also.:D;)

[irocz69]

I like the idea of the sportsman class but forget about seperating it it should be run what you brung its just about getting time on the track and racing with others anyway so dont seperate it in anyway so there can be a decect amount of people to run with I think this would make for the best way for new people to get there feet wet and also buy whatever they want to run as well

Being around for as long as I have, Rob seems to have the best idea. Not that we haven't strayed from the subject that started this thread, but there does need to be a sportsman or novice class put into place. No equipment changes, just lap restrictions. This concept worked for many years in the Reading area, where EDM racing was @ a premium. If you were new to the hobby or couldn't run a certain amount of laps, you were a novice, until you could do so, & even then you couldn't move up until you could prove yourself over a period of time.

I think the thing to do is, offer the class first ! You have to have the class available before you know if it will work. Secondly, decide on an amount of laps & how many weeks a racer has to run @ that pace, before they are allowed to bump up to the next level. No equipment changes needed, therefore if the racers are using the same equipment as the next level, then there is no additional cost to move up !

Just my 2cents !

GO FAST TURN LEFT ! Keith S.

[padale70]

Guys have no problems with the open tire rule until someone would put in the time and effort to find a rubber tire that works great (Ones are made that work to) and wins with it. Then I can already hear it now that is illegal!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It might not ever happen but we have rubber tires out now for other types of racing that make huge traction and could be adapted to dirt oval. Not sure anyone would put in the time to make it work but it is not inconceivable that it can't happen. I would feel bad for the first guy that does it because he will have so many crying oval guys it will be like the funeral for Micheal Jackson!!!!!!!!!!! Guys say its ok until it happens then it would be a totally different story.


i have to disagree with this brian as i stated in an earlier post there was a guy i raced with this past summer who ran rubber tires on his truck and did very very well no one pissed and moaned about it it sure left a few of us scratching our heads but there is a open tire rule so it is what it is

as far as running two sepreate truck classes i am not for that at all i think having the fast guys out there give newbies like myself something to shoot for a goal to reach having said that the "pro" drivers that run truck also have to realize that it is a "beginner" class and some times bad things are gonna happen

it would be great if there was a super cheap begginer class to be available like the slash class is perfect for this i really thought it would take off to but as RJ pointed out this are purpose built race cars so maybe there is no "cheap" way to get started in this hobby/sport but then again this is not a super chep hobby to get into nomatter what kind of competive racing you are doing

[peanutsprint9]

While we are talking - how would you feel about a spec tire, lets just say in limited classes - a very hard, abrasion resistant tire - one that wouldn't be able to be cut apart and have sections glued back so people couldn't cheat?

The whole idea behind the figure 8 race was to get some people out who have not tried oval - I know it's still not but it is better to try something than do nothing at all. I really thought the slash oval would have had a few races this year.


That's awesome...and while we're at it, let's take those "enormous" top wings and make them 4 x 4 instead of 6 x 6. And lets have absolutely NO wickerbill on the back, and take all the downforce out of limited sprint. That would really put the handling back into the game. Rock hard tires that durometer to about 45, with no traction compound, and then watch everyone spin out coming off of 2 and 4 for a couple weeks. LOL!!

Sounds like fun to me, and boy would that slow the car down a fair amount.

BUT...if you're doing this to help newbies, as folks like to call them, this is not the way to go. Most new folks have the most trouble learning throttle control, while trying to also learn how to setup their cars and drive all at the same time. It's hard enough for new people coming in, lets not make it harder on em'

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

An observation reading over the posts by proponents of rubber tires or a spec tire.

It seems that people want in some way or fashion to slow down cars and/or put more driver into the equation?

" hard spec tire " " make wing 4" instead of 6x6 " " Don't allow compounds "

These all hint at taking away traction. In the past I've felt that Rubber tires were a great way to do just that but I think the same thing can be acomplished with a hard foam tire and not allowing compound.

I for one would love to see the type of racing I first saw back in '06/'07 when the PA Tour ran on Rubber tires. Not having anything to do with the rubber tires but just the way the races looked from a spectator's standpoint.

Cars were always on the edge of out of control to borrow a phrase. They were not nearly as fast (lap times) as they are today and the cars always walked a fine line of being in control. There was a LOT of driver input to keep the car pointed or pitched in the right direction. Much like their full scale counterparts.

I'm a speed junkie and foams, compound, etc are part of making it all happen. But as many have mentioned there has to be a middle ground for newbies and sportsman drivers. And if you can get the speeds somewhere in that middle-ground I think you'll KEEP more beginners around and you'll then feed the higher ranks of competition levels down the road.

In today's dwindeling economy we must find a way to get every last interested person a chance at our hobby and that means having an affordable, entry-level class. Can that be accomplished? Heck yeah! Could it be in the form of trucks or buggy based EDM's? Sure can. Slash's sure. But the local track has to support it, encourage it, and keep the costs DOWN. IMHO A limited class be it nitro or electric is not the answer if it's based on purpose built kits. They cost TOO DAMN MUCH for a beginner who is testing the waters. That's where Trucks could SHINE!!! I know and understand how $1000 is what it costs to race in ANYTHING purpose built. I am not contesting that in the least. But it's too much cash for a beginner. Sorry there are way too many people without that sort of disposable income these days.

As much as I've heard racers complain about the trucks or other beginner classes I've always thought. You need them. They are the future. Ok I've swerved off-topic a bit. My apoligies! :D

[DaBearsNo13]

You know the really funny part about all this tire BS is? When you go to the track with the rules as open as they are & people can't even get their cars to go a few laps with out wrecking. Quit trying to re-invent the wheel, & get your current equipment to work better. Do not ruin it for everybody else, just because you want us all to slow down to your speeds.

I am all for helping new guys, but these types of threads only push people from even getting involved. We do not need more classes, period. Do what the rest of us did when we started out. Show up, get your butt kicked regularly & actually work towards getting better. This everyone gets a ribbon mentallity is not really helping anyone in the long run!

Just my :twocents:,
Russ

[BOOSIER RACING TIRES]

While we are talking - how would you feel about a spec tire, lets just say in limited classes - a very hard, abrasion resistant tire - one that wouldn't be able to be cut apart and have sections glued back so people couldn't cheat?

The whole idea behind the figure 8 race was to get some people out who have not tried oval - I know it's still not but it is better to try something than do nothing at all. I really thought the slash oval would have had a few races this year.


I have an idea......why not have spec hand out cars/trucks, kind of like the Iroc series, that only the track owner/race director can prepare, maintain and adjust from week to week....:D

[kerstetter]

exactly I would love to see you put some of these newer guys on real hard foam tires you think the racing is bad now the car needs to be hooked not unhooked especially for less experienced drivers You know the really funny part about all this tire BS is? When you go to the track with the rules as open as they are & people can't even get their cars to go a few laps with out wrecking. Quit trying to re-invent the wheel, & get your current equipment to work better. Do not ruin it for everybody else, just because you want us all to slow down to your speeds.

I am all for helping new guys, but these types of threads only push people from even getting involved. We do not need more classes, period. Do what the rest of us did when we started out. Show up, get your butt kicked regularly & actually work towards getting better. This everyone gets a ribbon mentallity is not really helping anyone in the long run!

Just my :twocents:,
Russ

[k-clark]

I am all for helping new guys, but these types of threads only push people from even getting involved. We do not need more classes, period. Do what the rest of us did when we started out. Show up, get your butt kicked regularly & actually work towards getting better. This everyone gets a ribbon mentallity is not really helping anyone in the long run!

Just my :twocents:,
Russ[/quote]


Amen......I have gotten a ton of help from to many people to list,Russ being one.I'm getting whopped up on but I get better every time out,racing with the best is how I gauge myself.It's human nature to want to dive right in,run with the big boys off the bat,and time and again any rule that gets made is perverted in some way.It's simple...if you're out there and slower than the rest,move over and keep learning!

[peanutsprint9]

An observation reading over the posts by proponents of rubber tires or a spec tire.

It seems that people want in some way or fashion to slow down cars and/or put more driver into the equation?

" hard spec tire " " make wing 4" instead of 6x6 " " Don't allow compounds "

These all hint at taking away traction. In the past I've felt that Rubber tires were a great way to do just that but I think the same thing can be acomplished with a hard foam tire and not allowing compound.

I for one would love to see the type of racing I first saw back in '06/'07 when the PA Tour ran on Rubber tires. Not having anything to do with the rubber tires but just the way the races looked from a spectator's standpoint.

Cars were always on the edge of out of control to borrow a phrase. They were not nearly as fast (lap times) as they are today and the cars always walked a fine line of being in control. There was a LOT of driver input to keep the car pointed or pitched in the right direction. Much like their full scale counterparts.

I'm a speed junkie and foams, compound, etc are part of making it all happen. But as many have mentioned there has to be a middle ground for newbies and sportsman drivers. And if you can get the speeds somewhere in that middle-ground I think you'll KEEP more beginners around and you'll then feed the higher ranks of competition levels down the road.

In today's dwindeling economy we must find a way to get every last interested person a chance at our hobby and that means having an affordable, entry-level class. Can that be accomplished? Heck yeah! Could it be in the form of trucks or buggy based EDM's? Sure can. Slash's sure. But the local track has to support it, encourage it, and keep the costs DOWN. IMHO A limited class be it nitro or electric is not the answer if it's based on purpose built kits. They cost TOO DAMN MUCH for a beginner who is testing the waters. That's where Trucks could SHINE!!! I know and understand how $1000 is what it costs to race in ANYTHING purpose built. I am not contesting that in the least. But it's too much cash for a beginner. Sorry there are way too many people without that sort of disposable income these days.

As much as I've heard racers complain about the trucks or other beginner classes I've always thought. You need them. They are the future. Ok I've swerved off-topic a bit. My apoligies! :D



OTR, for the record, my post was a joke. Running with the experienced drivers is how you learn. I know I for one took my lumps for a year straight at Newville. I could not tell you how many times I was in the C or B main with a sprint car. And there were a lot of people instrumental in helping me out. Learning as I went was also beneficial. You have too many people today who don't even know how to build, fix, repair, whatever these cars. They buy them, and expect to win races first time out just because they can drive a Radio Shack car in their drive-way. Sorry folks, doesn't work that way.

Frustration, exhaustion, and "getting harped at" is also part of the deal. I for one am one of those people who have been call more names on the drivers stand then I can certainly post here. Funny how things usually come back full circle, those same folks have either help me at one point or another get my car right.

Some on here are asking for "sportsman" or starter classes. Staub's runs a sportsman class every week. Come on down, and get out there with folks the same speed as you.

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

OTR, for the record, my post was a joke. Running with the experienced drivers is how you learn. I know I for one took my lumps for a year straight at Newville. I could not tell you how many times I was in the C or B main with a sprint car. And there were a lot of people instrumental in helping me out. Learning as I went was also beneficial. You have too many people today who don't even know how to build, fix, repair, whatever these cars. They buy them, and expect to win races first time out just because they can drive a Radio Shack car in their drive-way. Sorry folks, doesn't work that way.

Frustration, exhaustion, and "getting harped at" is also part of the deal. I for one am one of those people who have been call more names on the drivers stand then I can certainly post here. Funny how things usually come back full circle, those same folks have either help me at one point or another get my car right.

Some on here are asking for "sportsman" or starter classes. Staub's runs a sportsman class every week. Come on down, and get out there with folks the same speed as you.


10-4.

I guess that so many people I know started running oval back 10-15-20 years ago and they'll tell you that the speeds back then and technology involved was really different. I mean buggy based stuff (RC10, JR2's, etc) can only go so fast on buggy tires, 1400mah 7-cells, and so on. Back then when a newbie approached the track the RC10 that he picked up for off-road could be converted to an EDM, etc and he could be in sportsman, etc. And the speeds were a LOT slower due to many factors.

Now if you go to a track the speeds are CRAZY. Innovation in chassis design, better engines or electronics, foam tires that started purely for carpet or asphalt now work tremondously well on DIRT of all surfaces. And to even try and put a newbie out on an oval is rough! I like you have been hit, bumped, yelled at, and all those fun things that come with being a newbie and in their way! LOL. And that is a given no matter what the class or situation. But you must admit. It's a LOT steaper learning curve these days.

The Trucks for me was my start into dirt oval racin'. I've run asphalt, carpet, off-road, along with years of heli and airplane flying so I'm not unfamiliar with R/C based stuff. But some of these newbies are fresh right out of the RTR box! They've not even learned if they have the hand/eye coordination it takes to be competetive! Let alone the learning curve! LOL. Which I think is where the carnage happens.

For me the Trucks are a good class as the entry-level or beginner. Trucks are much more forgiving than any other platform since they are built for off-road. And truck parts are cheaper and more widely available at the LHS. And cost is also a big plus. RTR trucks nitro or electric can hit the track running for less than half of any purpose built chassis class. All the variables around Trucks are there for entry-level.

Now trucks have really done an injustice to themselves over the years. As JohnnyO will tell you we are our own worse enemy. First you have a RC10GT, or Losi XXX-NT, or a XTM truck. All solid platforms. Well then enter special shock towers and sedan shocks. Then someone say hey why not run a custom built chassis. (Moose or Barts or BMS with truck arms). What's worse is the guys doing this are already some of the best in that class to begin with and now they are using experience and equipment to get the truck dialed in that much better. It's all well and good but it adds to the cost and is DEFINATELY intimidating to the newcomer who sees these guys with all this work and money in a TRUCK! Now we all know it's not the chassis that makes the difference because if I recall JohnnyO ran a Black tub GT STOCK at Bumps and cleaned house. But still I've learned first hand if you copy their setup, toss on foams, you are 75% there already! Where's the learning curve???

I think I am wondering off-topic again. LOL. IDK. For me again I ask what is the goal of the Rubber tire thing? There seems to be a lot of rumblings or undertoe in this thread. I think it important to understand what the issue is and what the goal should be. Speaking from the point of what brings newbies to the fold... COST, Lower Speeds/Better controlability, FUN FUN FUN. It works up here in NY.... Gotta find that in your area as well for newbies. :thumbsup::D:greenflag:

[WYD]

Yes but remember fossil's last for millions of years also.:D;)That is also true.:D

[Oval-Man]

You know the really funny part about all this tire BS is? When you go to the track with the rules as open as they are & people can't even get their cars to go a few laps with out wrecking. Quit trying to re-invent the wheel, & get your current equipment to work better. Do not ruin it for everybody else, just because you want us all to slow down to your speeds.

I am all for helping new guys, but these types of threads only push people from even getting involved. We do not need more classes, period. Do what the rest of us did when we started out. Show up, get your butt kicked regularly & actually work towards getting better. This everyone gets a ribbon mentallity is not really helping anyone in the long run!

Just my :twocents:,
RussWell said Russ.

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

You know the really funny part about all this tire BS is? When you go to the track with the rules as open as they are & people can't even get their cars to go a few laps with out wrecking. Quit trying to re-invent the wheel, & get your current equipment to work better. Do not ruin it for everybody else, just because you want us all to slow down to your speeds.

I am all for helping new guys, but these types of threads only push people from even getting involved. We do not need more classes, period. Do what the rest of us did when we started out. Show up, get your butt kicked regularly & actually work towards getting better. This everyone gets a ribbon mentallity is not really helping anyone in the long run!

Just my :twocents:,
Russ

I don' think this is a nobody's a loser thread. I think it's concern about how high the speed bar is set in TRUCK. back 3 years ago when trucks ran rubber tires the lap times and laps run in 4 min. were lower by quite a bit on average. Yes you had the experinced guys really haulin' the mail but as a sportsman class it was no where near were it is today. Heck I remember running rubber tires at LA, Staubs, and Liberty valley on truck and changing over to Silver foams made me 7-8 laps faster. And trust me my learning curve is nowhere near that great! LOL. Foams just stabilize the truck and hook up a LOT better than Rubbers. ie. I was quicker and more consitant. I always look back and watch my DVD from the Jim Baratta memorial race at Liberty Valley in 2007 when they ran Sat. and the PA nitro Tour on Rubber ran Sunday. Saturday was Run whatcha brung with foams and rubber mixed. Foams dominated for the most part in every class. I was one of 2 in truck running rubber and BARELY made the a-main. I was at a disadvantage but refused to spend $50 on a set of foam. I watched all the mains Sat night and took notice the finishing orders, separation between cars at the end of each round, and just watched the racing to see how it "looked" as a spectator with some friends.

The following day of the PA Nitro Tour I video'd almost all but 1 round of heats but did get every Main and let me just say the racing on Rubber was closer, there difference between first and last in each class was closer, and the lap counts were WAY down. But you know what? The side-by-side racing was everpresent and my R/C buddies that watched it couldn't believe the difference. It was pretty clear in that one instance how so many cling to Rubber Tires and the racing of those days. yeah the cars were fast. yeah they were really tough to hang on. yeah you might have burned through tires in classes other than trucks. but the racing was FUN TO WATCH!!!

IDK. I think rubber has it's place. LOOSE DIRT AND PINS. Not on the fine clay that we enjoy in the NE. But I think there is something to be said about losing the entry level class that was Truck. It use to be a RTR based class that was about learning the fundamentals that didn't cost a whole lot yet there was enough veterans there to help you out that in the end everyone won. (No not a ribbon LOL.) You won because as a beginner you took some laps, licks, and learned a LOT about making a car go in circles!

ok. yet another long drawnout .02. might be hitting the .05 range now.

btw. I don't think these threads hurt anything. I think that other than the I hate foam debate what is being said is there needs to be a place for beginners. The future of our hobby. Right now besides limited pockets of interest we don't have that. Over the last 20 years we've seen prices of everything plummet to the point that is very reasonable to have an affordable class for beginners. Truck use to be that way.... I think some would like them to return. On a side note YES we have too many classes. WAY TOO MANY. but there has to be a beginner class.

[RacerX11]

OTR, you asked me the reason for this thread, here it is. the main reason for this thread was to find a way to slow these trucks down. Personally and I am sure not alone on this, but I thought rubber tires was one way of doing it.

Everyone has good points. We need new blood in the hobby. Sure I started R/C around the age of 19 with a Nitro Stampede, I wanted to race so I went to Williams grove Hobbies when they were around and they helped me get into racing, bought a RTR XXX-NT and raced it for a while. When I got back into this, Chris and Bumps and Jumps became my shop of choice. Now I have a GT that has about close to about $400 including the purchase of parts, engine, modifications, and a conversion kit and shocks in this truck. This has been a spand over a year and a half.

I am not saying that going fast is a bad thing, but looking at it from a safety point of view it may not be a bad idea. Yes there are walls, and bumpers that can help prevent this, but what if they go out of control, at the speeds we are going now, someone could get seriously hurt, the room for error is very small. I know I have taken hits by these cars and it don't feel good at all, we have all been there.

Maybe it is time to look at this way as well.

Just my :twocents:

[rj14]

I don' think this is a nobody's a loser thread. I think it's concern about how high the speed bar is set in TRUCK. back 3 years ago when trucks ran rubber tires the lap times and laps run in 4 min. were lower by quite a bit on average. Yes you had the experinced guys really haulin' the mail but as a sportsman class it was no where near were it is today. Heck I remember running rubber tires at LA, Staubs, and Liberty valley on truck and changing over to Silver foams made me 7-8 laps faster. And trust me my learning curve is nowhere near that great! LOL. Foams just stabilize the truck and hook up a LOT better than Rubbers. ie. I was quicker and more consitant. I always look back and watch my DVD from the Jim Baratta memorial race at Liberty Valley in 2007 when they ran Sat. and the PA nitro Tour on Rubber ran Sunday. Saturday was Run whatcha brung with foams and rubber mixed. Foams dominated for the most part in every class. I was one of 2 in truck running rubber and BARELY made the a-main. I was at a disadvantage but refused to spend $50 on a set of foam. I watched all the mains Sat night and took notice the finishing orders, separation between cars at the end of each round, and just watched the racing to see how it "looked" as a spectator with some friends.

The following day of the PA Nitro Tour I video'd almost all but 1 round of heats but did get every Main and let me just say the racing on Rubber was closer, there difference between first and last in each class was closer, and the lap counts were WAY down. But you know what? The side-by-side racing was everpresent and my R/C buddies that watched it couldn't believe the difference. It was pretty clear in that one instance how so many cling to Rubber Tires and the racing of those days. yeah the cars were fast. yeah they were really tough to hang on. yeah you might have burned through tires in classes other than trucks. but the racing was FUN TO WATCH!!!



I can tell you a story of the exact oposite that happened at Newville.....What is your point?

I was racing at Liberty that day......ask me how many rubber tires I killed that Sunday compared to the foams the day before?

Here is the bottom line....when the rubbers were what we HAD to run, on average after 4 mins, 2-3 of 4 tires were junk. PERIOD!!! Have you tried mixing and matching new w/ old rubbers? How'd that work for you???? After 4 mins on foams I still had and have a completely useable and competetive set of tires.

Some of you guys think that we are MORONS in here, twist stories and words however you want.

I know what I spent on rubbers compared to foams....I know what a pain it was to trim and stuff inserts as well as glue tires and crap. I know how long my rubbers last compared to my foams. And nothing anybody says will convince me otherwise that AN OPEN TIRE RULE IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO!!!

You can try to do the spec tire thing...but really, what is gained? Low production runs on a special all around tire won't save anybody any money (and don't try to tell me you can just use so an so's pink, guess what all foam tires are round and black, you really need a white spec strip in the middle to KNOW for sure it is the correct spec tire). And you have no way to really police the traction treatments etc... It is what it is.

I sound like a broken record on here!!!! But lets get real here!

How many people who have posted on this thread, wake up every morning and work on their r/c cars because if they don't, they don't have a shot at winning the next race, because winning that next race will pay your utility bill, mortgage, groceries...etc??

[irocz69]

You know the really funny part about all this tire BS is? When you go to the track with the rules as open as they are & people can't even get their cars to go a few laps with out wrecking. Quit trying to re-invent the wheel, & get your current equipment to work better. Do not ruin it for everybody else, just because you want us all to slow down to your speeds.

I am all for helping new guys, but these types of threads only push people from even getting involved. We do not need more classes, period. Do what the rest of us did when we started out. Show up, get your butt kicked regularly & actually work towards getting better. This everyone gets a ribbon mentallity is not really helping anyone in the long run!

Just my :twocents:,
Russ

Ok, love muscle ! I totally agree w/you, except for the concept of another class ! If anyone bothered to read my other post, there should be a novice or sportsman class w/lap & consistancy concept.

Yes, I also took my beatings @ most tracks when I started, but, like I said before, in the Reading area @ Vaccaro's track, you couldn't move up till you ran a certain amount of laps for a certain amount of weeks !

I think this concept has been proven in the past & will clean up racing in general. Especially in the 13.5 LM class, which is the class I hear the most bitching about. I think this would allow people to get started somewhere & not have to worry about getting in the way, or yelled @ by veteran racers. Which happens !

At this point, im not sure this is a solution, but it's a start. I chose the 13.5 LM class mainly because its the biggest class on a weekly basis. Plus you have some racers running 50 or less laps, then you have racers running 55plus laps. Thats a big difference & I think a novice or sportsman class would help some racers hone there skills, before running w/the big dogs, sort of speek !

Bottom line is no new racers have a place to start, & a class for them is LONG overdue !

GO FAST TURN LEFT ! Keith S.

[rj14]

OTR, you asked me the reason for this thread, here it is. the main reason for this thread was to find a way to slow these trucks down. Personally and I am sure not alone on this, but I thought rubber tires was one way of doing it.

Just my :twocents:

Do you need a modded .15 motor? A rip snorting fire breathing 50% nitro drinking 7 port Roddy Nova JL Oddy Murnan John Force Widow Maker, powerd by The General .12 in it? Just lobby to make it another TG class and be done w/ it then. Leave the tires alone, slap a stock TG in it and be done w/ it. You might just find you will be just as fast in overall laps but you won't be out of control doing it.

[irocz69]

Do you need a modded .15 motor? A rip snorting fire breathing 50% nitro drinking 7 port Roddy Nova JL Oddy Murnan John Force Widow Maker, powerd by The General .12 in it? Just lobby to make it another TG class and be done w/ it then. Leave the tires alone, slap a stock TG in it and be done w/ it. You might just find you will be just as fast in overall laps but you won't be out of control doing it.

You know RJ, sometimes you have good ideas ! Oops, did I say that outloud ? :D J/K buddy :thumbsup:.

GO FAST TURN LEFT ! Keith S.

[RacerX11]

Do you need a modded .15 motor? A rip snorting fire breathing 50% nitro drinking 7 port Roddy Nova JL Oddy Murnan John Force Widow Maker, powerd by The General .12 in it? Just lobby to make it another TG class and be done w/ it then. Leave the tires alone, slap a stock TG in it and be done w/ it. You might just find you will be just as fast in overall laps but you won't be out of control doing it.


RJ, I ran a TG in my truck and didn't work to well. Never had any luck with OS. If you want to know what engine I run I'll gladly tell you, and I can tell you right now it is cheaper than a Slide Carb TG, but more expensive than a rotary one too. It is a Dynamite Platinum .12, all the engine you'll ever need. Not too much or too little power.

Don't take this the wrong way, but Did you read the entire post, you'll see the reason why I started this thread.

Lets not start with the TG thing, we all know where that goes

[RacerX11]

Yes but remember fossil's last for millions of years also.:D;)

You ain't no fossil, your 54 years young running these things:thumbsup:

[FossilRC]

Do you need a modded .15 motor? A rip snorting fire breathing 50% nitro drinking 7 port Roddy Nova JL Oddy Murnan John Force Widow Maker, powerd by The General .12 in it? Just lobby to make it another TG class and be done w/ it then. Leave the tires alone, slap a stock TG in it and be done w/ it. You might just find you will be just as fast in overall laps but you won't be out of control doing it.

Here's another point on the TG, now you just drove the cost up more for a new person.
Buy a cheap truck, now buy engine, pipe, clutch and whatever else. And TG's aren't that slow, Nick ran one in his BMS truck and was always up front. Oh but that was a BMS truck and that wasn't cheap to build. Get my point, we need somewhere for new people.

[RacerX11]

When I think about it, what about the budget racers, even off road racers that want to get into oval. how do they feel about this. They may have buggies or gas trucks, but when they see these $1000 cars, they turn away because they don't want to spend the money too run both or when they race and get ran over because there setup was off and now there getting yelled at for a simple racing incident. This happened to me many times where I was just trying to go the 4 minutes and people thought I was being too aggressive with them. They come up to me and threaten if I did it again they would destroy my gear. I thought about quitting several times because of that. I know if someones car is not handling well and I get wreaked, sure I'll get annoyed, but that's racing. when and they come to me to apologize I know it was accidental, I wont get mad at them, because it happened with me before. If someone hits me on purpose, I try to stay calm about it, hey they are just screwing themselves by doing that. I'll try to give you room as long at I don't wreak in the process.

We've all been there, be in there shoes, have patience, it took me a while to get to where i am now being a veteran driver and seeing new people come in.

wow did I go off topic on this one......

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

I was racing at Liberty that day......ask me how many rubber tires I killed that Sunday compared to the foams the day before? RJ What class did you kill those tires in? Was it Truck? Cause I did see guys in Nitro EDM/Nitro Sprint killin' tires. But not in truck. Truck is at the heart of this thread. (Not everything else)

Here is the bottom line....when the rubbers were what we HAD to run, on average after 4 mins, 2-3 of 4 tires were junk. PERIOD!!! Have you tried mixing and matching new w/ old rubbers? How'd that work for you???? After 4 mins on foams I still had and have a completely useable and competetive set of tires. In Truck, I have used the same 4 Street Trac tires for YEARS. I am talking probably somewhere in the 20-25 Heats/Mains on them and they still have a lot of tread left plus a couple of Asphalt races on them locally up here in NY.

Some of you guys think that we are MORONS in here, twist stories and words however you want. I don't think you are a moron at all. In fact I value your opinion because you do in fact have a LOT of experience on both Rubber and Foam. And you pull no punches. You tell it like it is from your perspective.

I know what I spent on rubbers compared to foams....I know what a pain it was to trim and stuff inserts as well as glue tires and crap. I know how long my rubbers last compared to my foams. And nothing anybody says will convince me otherwise that AN OPEN TIRE RULE IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO!!! Again is this experience in Truck???

You can try to do the spec tire thing...but really, what is gained? Low production runs on a special all around tire won't save anybody any money (and don't try to tell me you can just use so an so's pink, guess what all foam tires are round and black, you really need a white spec strip in the middle to KNOW for sure it is the correct spec tire). And you have no way to really police the traction treatments etc... It is what it is.If you know how to use a Durometer gauge tech is easy. It's either too soft or it's not? what's so hard about that? (no pun intended)And I'm not talking SPEC as in grey stripped Trinity Tire, etc... Just put a limit on how soft of a durometer tire can be used. Say 45 Duro. ANY Mfg. can be used. Grease away. just don't soften it chemically below 45 Duro? I don't see how this is any more difficult that tech in electronics, bodies, or engines....?

I sound like a broken record on here!!!! But lets get real here!

How many people who have posted on this thread, wake up every morning and work on their r/c cars because if they don't, they don't have a shot at winning the next race, because winning that next race will pay your utility bill, mortgage, groceries...etc?? I do this for FUN. and part of the fun for me is getting new people involved. And extremely locally for me that works. But since it keeps coming up I would have to say that apparently that's not the case across the board.....

[kerstetter]

But is it new people or people that cant drive that well not to offend any1 but not every1 is going to be able to do this sorry but it takes a degree of skill. For some it only take a year or 2 some will just never be able to do this.I am all for whatever gets more people into this hobbie/sport and also not losing any1 thats already in it. Here's another point on the TG, now you just drove the cost up more for a new person.
Buy a cheap truck, now buy engine, pipe, clutch and whatever else. And TG's aren't that slow, Nick ran one in his BMS truck and was always up front. Oh but that was a BMS truck and that wasn't cheap to build. Get my point, we need somewhere for new people.

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

When I think about it, what about the budget racers, even off road racers that want to get into oval. how do they feel about this. They may have buggies or gas trucks, but when they see these $1000 cars, they turn away because they don't want to spend the money too run

This is the real life truth for 95% of the racers at OTR, ICH, and Tunkhannok here in the twin tiers of NY. Which is why our attendance is doing exceptionally well with truck/buggy based rules and classes. (Low cost) I must say you can't knock the DODC tracks and series that support them. Look at the Turnout. What worries me is weekly track attendance and new blood. that's what feeds the Tours, etc.... if that dies so too will anything down the line.

[DUBES]

[quote=RacerX11;371648]

I am not saying that going fast is a good thing, but looking at it from a safety point of view it may not be a bad idea. Yes there are walls, and bumpers that can help prevent this, but what if they go out of control, at the speeds we are going now, someone could get seriously hurt, the room for error is very small. I know I have taken hits by these cars and it don't feel good at all, we have all been there.

Maybe it is time to look at this way as well.

AFTER READING THIS, I CHANGED MY MIND- I DO WANT YOU TO QUITE THE HOBBY!
I HAVE A MOTHER, A WIFE AND POLITICIANS TRYING TO PROTECT ME FROM ME- I DON'T NEED YOU TO DO IT TO. IF YOUR AFRAID OF THE FAST CARS- STAY HOME! AS WILD AS MY RIDE HAS BEEN LATELY- IT JUST MIGHT BE MINE THAT GETS YOU!

RUSS SAID IT RIGHT IN HIS POST- MAN UP AND GET YOUR A$$ HANDED TO YOU TILL YOU GET HELP, GET BETTER AND LEARN TO DRIVE THE BEST YOU CAN. HAPPENS TO ME EVRY TIME I RUN AND I STILL LOVE THE HOBBY, DIFFERENCE IS I DON'T EXPECT PEOPLE TO SLOW DOWN SO I CAN KEEP UP. HECK GO FASTER, AS FAST AS YOU CAN, I LOVE WHEN I DO GET A GOOD RUN AND KEEP UP FOR A LITTLE WHILE- FEELS BETTER TO HANG WITH THESE GUYS AT THEIR PEAK THEN TO HANG WITH THEM AT A WATERED DOWN, SLOWED DOWN VERSION, JUST SO I DON'T GET HURT FEELINGS CAUSE I CAN'T KEEP UP....

[RacerX11]

Rick, I typed that wrong. I do like going fast, don't get me wrong, if your at Bumps tomorrow, come talk to me. I just fear someone who is marshaling a race could get hurt from out of control cars when the Fail safes fail. Heck I remember one race where I had to jump for dear life because of a out of control car was coming at me at top speed coming out of 2 at bumps back when Chris had no walls there in '08. I'm just saying that it may be a good idea to slow these cars down a little, that's all. WE've all seen what happens when one of these gets airborne. I mean no offense to ya but we all take risk when we marshal, just don't ask me to marshal an 8 scale race of any kind!

Even spectators we got to keep an eye out for too...

Hey when will you get that truck of yours back out? Haven't seen you or greg run them a while

Know what, I'm going to shut up now. Seems I created enough havoc for one day.

[peanutsprint9]

nevermind...not gonna go there.

[peanutsprint9]

Know what, I'm going to shut up now. Seems I created enough havoc for one day.


Probably a good idea.

[RacerX11]

hey check out the 1/13 thread you may just be interested in what is going on!!! It involves :beer:

[RacerX11]

Probably a good idea.

Yeah. I have a tendency to go beyond overboard on things. Bad habit of mine.... i guess that is what i get for having A.D.D.!!

IT is probably a good idea to end this thread.

[Smokinnitro]

My truck is for sale!! Wanna buy it?

[RacerX11]

My truck is for sale!! Wanna buy it?

Why not race it tomorrow? A case of Beer is up for grabs

[Smokinnitro]

gotta work

You need a pre-owned car?

[rj14]

RJ, I ran a TG in my truck and didn't work to well. Never had any luck with OS. If you want to know what engine I run I'll gladly tell you, and I can tell you right now it is cheaper than a Slide Carb TG, but more expensive than a rotary one too. It is a Dynamite Platinum .12, all the engine you'll ever need. Not too much or too little power.

Don't take this the wrong way, but Did you read the entire post, you'll see the reason why I started this thread.

Lets not start with the TG thing, we all know where that goes


I have an OS CV .12 in my truck right now......it is just like a Jr Showtime Rotissere Grill.... SET IT AND FORGET IT! I am pretty confident it will start and run right now. I really wish I could get to Bumps on Wed nights. I would bring that truck w/ me for you to drive. Hell, if I could get there on a Wed night I would spend my time just helping you. I have taken a short break from racing until the end of Feb. Once I return I will bring only my nitro EDM because a blind drunk monkey could drive that thing w/o having to work on it.....and I will spend the rest of the time working w/ you on your truck, hell I'll even help you if you have rubber tires on it.

[RacerX11]

RJ, I plan to race the freeze. WOW, This was only supposed to be a opinion thread, i didn't think things would go this far. Thank you for the offer, I might just take it. Though if solly is with you, from what I heard he may give me Drinking lessons... or was it a contest??

[brockh]

ok so let me get this right... we want to SLOW down freaking race cars? that is the dumbest damn thing i have heard but lets work with that...2.65 min tire size should help, lets start there. Then for all the guys that want to go slower, lets flip a coin before each qualifier and the main to determine if we are going to make left turns or right turns, this should cause most to set their cars up neutral so that is also going to contribute to "SLOWING" the field down....now for getting the racers "CLOSER" this is my favorite one...since the fast guy isn't allowed to be 3 laps faster then the field because for some reason the slower guys aren't willing to put the time in to figure the car out we can use the kids that are at the track not doing anything better with their time. They will each be given a 2x4...when the race announcer says who is leading, that car is now fair game, open season for the kids to take that sum bitch out...

i think i covered the issues....we can we start this?

This topic is frustrating...i cannot believe it has had this much attention

[peanutsprint9]

ok so let me get this right... we want to SLOW down freaking race cars? that is the dumbest damn thing i have heard but lets work with that...2.65 min tire size should help, lets start there. Then for all the guys that want to go slower, lets flip a coin before each qualifier and the main to determine if we are going to make left turns or right turns, this should cause most to set their cars up neutral so that is also going to contribute to "SLOWING" the field down....now for getting the racers "CLOSER" this is my favorite one...since the fast guy isn't allowed to be 3 laps faster then the field because for some reason the slower guys aren't willing to put the time in to figure the car out we can use the kids that are at the track not doing anything better with their time. They will each be given a 2x4...when the race announcer says who is leading, that car is now fair game, open season for the kids to take that sum bitch out...

i think i covered the issues....we can we start this?

This topic is frustrating...i cannot believe it has had this much attention


LOL...funniest post thus far!!!

[Smokinnitro]

ok so let me get this right... we want to SLOW down freaking race cars? that is the dumbest damn thing i have heard but lets work with that...2.65 min tire size should help, lets start there. Then for all the guys that want to go slower, lets flip a coin before each qualifier and the main to determine if we are going to make left turns or right turns, this should cause most to set their cars up neutral so that is also going to contribute to "SLOWING" the field down....now for getting the racers "CLOSER" this is my favorite one...since the fast guy isn't allowed to be 3 laps faster then the field because for some reason the slower guys aren't willing to put the time in to figure the car out we can use the kids that are at the track not doing anything better with their time. They will each be given a 2x4...when the race announcer says who is leading, that car is now fair game, open season for the kids to take that sum bitch out...

i think i covered the issues....we can we start this?

This topic is frustrating...i cannot believe it has had this much attention

You are not allowed to make right turns

BECAUSE I SAY SO

[WYD]

You are not allowed to make right turns

BECAUSE I SAY SOEither run Figure 8 racing so turn left and right of just be in a bad oval heat race and you will get plenty of left and right turns.:D

[RacerX11]

You are not allowed to make right turns

BECAUSE I SAY SO

trying to be Stone Cold Steve Austin are we??;)

[jaredmausteller]

that's what i was thinking glen. newville used to have a sportsman truck and a expert truck class.
the truck class has already died off pretty bad from what it used to be, and new guys running against guy's with 5- or more years exp. doesn't help. this was one of the reason's i quit running truck around 5 years ago[to allow the class to be there for the new racer]. trucks are a blast and make a great beginner class. if there is enough expert truck racers who want to run truck than that's fine run them separatly. that way it gives the new guy a chance to win against racers with there exp. level. the other thing is when a new guy who maybe having problem's with handling, or maybe just need's some track time to sharpen there driving skills, doesn't want to run with the guy's who are twice as fast and maybe going to give them some lip if they happen to spin or have some problem's holding there line. we where all new racer's at one time, and making it fun and affordable for the new guy to race will insure the furture of dirt oval.
if you are running truck and want to move up to a llm or sprint, but need some setup help just ask. there are plenty of racer's who are willing to help out.


mike,
i 100% agree with that.
ive only been running dirt oval for about 6 months, (4 races all year) and since im running lim. sprint. there really is no beginner class. i got into this for the love of the sport (ran carpet years ago at roadrunner raceway) then got out due to school and work. but since there is no beginner class for limited sprint. i have to...
1. take my beating like a man.
2. use this "experience" to talk to some of the guys that have 5+ yrs in running the lim class. (can learn a ton of awesome stuff from em)
3. listen to the guys "gripe" about me getting out of my line and "taking em out"

but its apart of racing always will be.

unfortunately its how you learn in this "sport". has been for years.
and as far as running rubber tires....
i have never done it personally, but have watched people that have, and to me it seems rubbers are a thing of the past unless your running a spec class that calls for them.
my thought on foam tires is this....
1. they last just as long..
2. they force you to learn how to keep the car/truck off the walls and away from other people (chunking, etc.)
3. and it give the sport the little bit of an edge. knowing you can make them any size you want, you can run stagger in them if desired, and you can put ANY tread pattern (if any) in them that works for you.

i understand i dont run trucks nor did i ever run them in the past. but just from what ive seen since i got back into this sport. i cant see going back to rubbers (or making them mandatory)
when foams are doing just as good (or better) things for this sport. as it was stated earlier, foams and rubbers cost almost the same throughout the year (as long as your not tearing them up).

sorry for the long post,
and i dont mean to get you "rubber" guys fired up.
just thought id throw my 2 cents in.

[jaredmausteller]

You know the really funny part about all this tire BS is? When you go to the track with the rules as open as they are & people can't even get their cars to go a few laps with out wrecking. Quit trying to re-invent the wheel, & get your current equipment to work better. Do not ruin it for everybody else, just because you want us all to slow down to your speeds.

I am all for helping new guys, but these types of threads only push people from even getting involved. We do not need more classes, period. Do what the rest of us did when we started out. Show up, get your butt kicked regularly & actually work towards getting better. This everyone gets a ribbon mentallity is not really helping anyone in the long run!

Just my :twocents:,
Russ

TOTALLY!
i get spanked EVERYTIME i go out. but hey thats "the learning Phase",lol

[jaredmausteller]

When I think about it, what about the budget racers, even off road racers that want to get into oval. how do they feel about this. They may have buggies or gas trucks, but when they see these $1000 cars, they turn away because they don't want to spend the money too run both or when they race and get ran over because there setup was off and now there getting yelled at for a simple racing incident. This happened to me many times where I was just trying to go the 4 minutes and people thought I was being too aggressive with them. They come up to me and threaten if I did it again they would destroy my gear. I thought about quitting several times because of that. I know if someones car is not handling well and I get wreaked, sure I'll get annoyed, but that's racing. when and they come to me to apologize I know it was accidental, I wont get mad at them, because it happened with me before. If someone hits me on purpose, I try to stay calm about it, hey they are just screwing themselves by doing that. I'll try to give you room as long at I don't wreak in the process.

We've all been there, be in there shoes, have patience, it took me a while to get to where i am now being a veteran driver and seeing new people come in.

wow did I go off topic on this one......

sorry for the multiple posts (trying to get up to speed on this)
but i ran off road. and i know even from running monster truck class, it can get to the 1000.00 mark quickly. racing r/c is an expensive sport (or it can be). and the modern day consumer has to learn his limits. im all for having new people in the sport. but people have to decide on wether or not they actually want to pick up the hobby before "plunging in". and if they do they need to be schooled on the "beginner" areas of racing by the racers or people that have been in it for a while (people behind the counters at bumps is a perfect place for this). i currently have a BMS sidewinder that i purchased for 450.00 RTR minus servos and tires. and i love it. BUT!!!
even while "spectating" before i got back into this sport i walked around the pits and talked to ALOT of drivers and got a feel for the prices of parts, kit cars, fuel, tires, etc.
went home and did a little bit of research. and decided dirt oval was the way i wanted to go. found out where i can find some used cars/trucks and searched from there.
once i got the stuff needed to go to the track. i started racing. ive taken my "beatings", i have broken parts, i have been SCREAMED at, but again, unfortunately in todays world that is racing. some people would like it to be how it was 10 yrs ago. god knows i would love for my life to be the way it was 10 years ago. but its not there anymore. times are changing. and the sport needs to evolve as time changes. maybe that means bringing another beginner class to the table. but i do know this.....
people are harping there are too many classes now.
but most of these classes have/ can have a full field.
and these classes are being ran by some of the "older" fellas. so, i can see bringing a NEW beginner/spec class to the table. but its also going to have its drawbacks too.
its 50/50 either way you look at it and the only way youll know for sure, unfortunatly, is to try it and see if it works out. theres always going to be people that disagree with it. thats life. cant please everyone.

again sorry for being so longwinded.lol
my wife hates me for it,lol

[Corny05]

My truck is for sale!! Wanna buy it?


Your full of S*%$, besides, im not done with you yet!;) I know how to solve the tire issue that pleases everybody- every car in any class has to run 2 foam tires and 2 rubber tires!-lol:thumbsdown:

[Smokinnitro]

Your full of S*%$, besides, im not done with you yet!;) I know how to solve the tire issue that pleases everybody- every car in any class has to run 2 foam tires and 2 rubber tires!-lol:thumbsdown:

If you would show up maybe I would race it!

[DUBES]

After a long post race tech inspection, it was found that steve used a set of special co-polymer, graphite impregnated, silicone filled, all natural sea sponge tires, that he then treated with a blend of pine tar pitch, vanilla extract and that blue tidy bowl stuff. These performance enhancing substances allowed him to double up on the case of beer twin truck races.

There is obviously no reason to limit the open tire rule............

[BOOSIER RACING TIRES]

After a long post race tech inspection, it was found that steve used a set of special co-polymer, graphite impregnated, silicone filled, all natural sea sponge tires, that he then treated with a blend of pine tar pitch, vanilla extract and that blue tidy bowl stuff. These performance enhancing substances allowed him to double up on the case of beer twin truck races.

There is obviously no reason to limit the open tire rule............


I'll have some of what he is smoking ! :thumbsup:

[RacerX11]

After a long post race tech inspection, it was found that steve used a set of special co-polymer, graphite impregnated, silicone filled, all natural sea sponge tires, that he then treated with a blend of pine tar pitch, vanilla extract and that blue tidy bowl stuff. These performance enhancing substances allowed him to double up on the case of beer twin truck races.

There is obviously no reason to limit the open tire rule............


you sure those were sea sponges Rick?;)

[jaredmausteller]

sea sponge huh??? must be some expensive tires.

i bet they smelled good with that vanilla extract in em.

i bet that was the secret to hooking up on the track too!!!!lol

[rg99]

You know you here so many different idea from harder tires to more class's and everything in between , I have even seen threads on here about how experienced drivers shouldn't be running the limited class's , in my opinion racing with experienced drivers can only make you better , if you really love racing and strive to win you wont get frustrated and walk away from the hobby because week after week you get you butt kicked , it will make you try even harder to improve , another thing track time is crucial in this hobby , I finally learned that and I am slowly getting better , no special tire or any rule for that matter will make me good enough to run up front with the best , track time and experimenting with set ups will eventually help me get there , and as far as the experienced guys complaining about the inexperienced drivers messing them up I never ran into that , those guys know how to drive around you and drive through traffic , what I notice more then anything is the driver that spins out 3 or 4 times in a race is the first person to complain when you accidentally get into them , they don't seem to see or think of the bad laps they did before you got into them they only think of the fact that you got into them.

[pascooter]

As many of you know we don't have many nitro racers at L.A. Speedway so that isn't a problem here, but we do like to encourage new blood in the sport. We also have some very good drivers that don't like to have their $1500 cars destroyed by a novice in reverse. We have a simple answer, Sportsman class. When someone new comes here i tell them when they sign up that they may be running in the Sportsman class after I watch them in practice. If they are good enough they can run the regular classes, if not I put them in the Sportsman class until they learn to drive. When they are no longer a danger to open society I let them move up.
I say "I" a lot because it is my responsibility, I am the one to be mad at not anyone else. I talk with the other drivers and get their input on moving a driver up, but it is still my decision. It worked well so far, and we have several new people coming this year. I don't think we have lost anyone do to this. By the way this is a run what you brung class and if you bring too much motor to control I will tell you to bring less next week.
As I said, it works, someone just has to be the dictator like Bill France.

[terry14]

As many of you know we don't have many nitro racers at L.A. Speedway so that isn't a problem here, but we do like to encourage new blood in the sport. We also have some very good drivers that don't like to have their $1500 cars destroyed by a novice in reverse. We have a simple answer, Sportsman class. When someone new comes here i tell them when they sign up that they may be running in the Sportsman class after I watch them in practice. If they are good enough they can run the regular classes, if not I put them in the Sportsman class until they learn to drive. When they are no longer a danger to open society I let them move up.
I say "I" a lot because it is my responsibility, I am the one to be mad at not anyone else. I talk with the other drivers and get their input on moving a driver up, but it is still my decision. It worked well so far, and we have several new people coming this year. I don't think we have lost anyone do to this. By the way this is a run what you brung class and if you bring too much motor to control I will tell you to bring less next week.
As I said, it works, someone just has to be the dictator like Bill France.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: george does a great job with his system, it works

[rookie 9]

okay its my turn first off track time is at very limited so when you try to go out
there is a lot of cars on the track making very little pratice for new racers which we
spend more time moving over for the faster guys leaving next to no pratice
next when you go to qualifay it is a 2 minute heat race before you have to race for
4 minutes if you make a adjustment and go the wrong way forget about surviving
to start race cant stop or even slow down with getting run over forget about pitting
when you have know one to fix your car unless you come off the drivers stand and do it your self

[Nitro 24]

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