LM rear spoiler end cap

[panelbeater]

On the rear spoiler end cap is there a max measurement in which the cap can extend behind the qtr panel. It may be kind of hard to explain but on my car I slid my cap back on the qtr to where the lower 2.25 measurement is about 1.25, It angles up at about 30 degrees from the back of the qtr. As far as my interpretation of the rule it meets all the max measurements as far as height and length but alowed me to make the cap line up with the spoiler better. So it is actually smaller than the drawing but extends back an inch more than pictured in the drawing. Wish I could put a pic here to explain it better. Thanks Steve Lawson

[macdaddy]

Looking at the specs, since you have to mount flush to the back edge of the body, I would shorten the front and increase the angle of the cap back edge.

[curtisp]

On the rear spoiler end cap is there a max measurement in which the cap can extend behind the qtr panel. It may be kind of hard to explain but on my car I slid my cap back on the qtr to where the lower 2.25 measurement is about 1.25, It angles up at about 30 degrees from the back of the qtr. As far as my interpretation of the rule it meets all the max measurements as far as height and length but alowed me to make the cap line up with the spoiler better. So it is actually smaller than the drawing but extends back an inch more than pictured in the drawing. Wish I could put a pic here to explain it better. Thanks Steve Lawson

Steve,

I think that I understand what you are asking...

In hopes of helping to explain what you did...I drew it up. I hope I understood what you did & that I drew it correctly. :D

Curt

[signman501]

The end of the spoiler cap cannot extend more than 1" past the end of the body. The spoiler may extend past the cap as far as necessary but cannot be more the 2.75" long from the level part of the body.

[panelbeater]

The end of the spoiler cap cannot extend more than 1" past the end of the body. The spoiler may extend past the cap as far as necessary but cannot be more the 2.75" long from the level part of the body.
But it don't say that in the diagram, it says it cannot extend forward more than 2.25 forward of the end of the qtr, it can be 3.25 long and no more than a 45degree angle upward at the back. It doesn't give a max measurement from the qtr back

[curtisp]

looking at the diagram (http://www.dirtoval.com/rules/latemodelspoilersupport.pdf) it looks like there is a point that is 2.25" from the front (1" from the rear)of the rear spoiler supprt...and 2" down from the top...that is supposed to be flush with the rear quarter.

[signman501]

The drawing is very plain as to how it is to be mounted. It must be 3.25" long, 2.25" from the rear mount of the body to the front of the cap. That leaves 1" from the rear mount to the end of the cap, PERIOD. That means it can not hang out the back of the car more than 1". As I said before you can let the spoiler overlap the cap as much as necessary but the cap has to be this size. I know I had to cut mine down to make tech at the USOW by 1/8".

[panelbeater]

Well I'll just let it rest, I still think there is gray area there and it should say no more than an inch behind the qtr and I know 3,25 - 2,25 = 1 , and it is silly to have a end cap for a1.5 spoiler with a 2.75 spoiler for looks if anything else.

[curtisp]

It's not really that difficult...there's a drawing of what it needs to look like and an arrow pointing to where the rear of the quarter panel needs to be. :thumbsup:

[Hitman35]

I have a question about the rear cap and spoiler that i have asked two years ago and nobody had a answered it clearly, so I have interpered it this way and have ran in past dodc events and the west central il series with this design. The design that I have used for my rear spoiler and side caps is the same as the dodc diagram but I have been making my spoilers at a 32 degree angle off vertical plane and making my side caps ends the same angle as my spoiler angle, is there anything wrong with this design?


Brian Massey

[signman501]

If it passes the dodc templates it should be ok.

[QBR Racing]

Well I'll just let it rest, I still think there is gray area there and it should say no more than an inch behind the qtr and I know 3,25 - 2,25 = 1 , and it is silly to have a end cap for a1.5 spoiler with a 2.75 spoiler for looks if anything else.
The drawing says all dimensions are max unless noted otherwise. You did the math from two max dimensions and came up with 1 inch. So wouldn't that fall under the max dimension of 1 inch. I do not see the gray area.
Thanks,
Brian

[signman501]

There is no gray area. They have a template that is the exact size of the drawing and if it dosn't fit the template you don't pass tech. It can be smaller, but can't be bigger.

[dirtsprinter]

I'm thinking a lawyer could maybe bring this simple problem to an end. It's black and white in a drawing. Don't know why it had to be so difficult for a racer to not be able to take what was brought up to them as not being in spec as was ask to make the change for future races.

[panelbeater]

Ok this is the last time I will say any thing about this. I'll change it to make the track happy and it will actually give me more sideboard which is fine for OLM.

Everyone on here is stuck on the 3.25-2.25 =1 My cap will fit in the template it is actually smaller. Myt lower meas is 1.5, .75 shorter than MAX measurement. Nowhere on that picture is there a dotted line or measurement that corresponds with the 3.25 overall length. It don't say if my lower measurement is shorter I have to make my overall length shorter..There is no line from the back of the qtr that says it cannot be behind the qtr more than an inch. Everyone is subtracting 2.25 from 3.25 and coming up with 1 inch. I'm subtracting 1.5 from 3.25 and comming up with 1.75. Nowhere is there a line from the rear of the qtr that correspnds with the overall length except the 2.25 max lower measurement. I';m done explaining that. What I would like to of had was an simple answer from whoever made the rule and it would be fine. When I made the cap I didn't like the way the one looked and and made this one which I really thought was within the rules and matched up to my spoiler better. Instead all I got was everyone that ever held a radio in their hands answer.

[signman501]

I would suggest you get in touch with Rob Cutman. He is head of the rule department as to DODC.

[irocz69]

Ok. I might not be on the rules commitee, but I am all for the rules package DODC has come up with. After further review of the drawing of the end cap, under the rules section, there is no rule that specifically states or shows that the spoiler cannot extend more than an inch from the rear corner of the body ! BUT, it does show that the angle beyond the end of the body,& the end of the cap, can not exceed 45 degrees, therefore if you have extended more than an inch beyond the bodies end, the cap would no longer be @ a 45 degree angle deaming the cap illegal. Hope this clears up the GRAY area. The diagram was posted to show exact dimentions & placement. PERIOD !

GO FAST TURN LEFT ! Keith S.

[Rob Cutman]

I will try to clarify this as easily as possible. The drawing signifies the maximum perimeter that is allowed for the end cap. For tech purposes there is a template that is made to the exact dimensions in the diagram. The template is placed on the quarter panel at the point designated in the drawing that reads:

"THIS POINT MUST MOUNT FLUSH AT REAR OF QUARTER PANEL"

The 2.25" measurement is a maximum distance forward from that point. And the 3.25" measurement is a maximum distance back from a point 2.25" forward of that point as it is depicted on the drawing. The 3.25" distance is not necessarily from the leading edge if your leading edge is less than 2.25" from THAT POINT.

What has worked best for most racers and what is LEGAL is to make your end cap to the dimensions shown and to mount it as depicted on the drawing. This will give you the largest area available and will keep things nice and simple as we intended.

Thanks,
Rob Cutman
DODC

[panelbeater]

Thanks Rob and IROC for the answer. I honestly thought when I made it a month and a half ago it fit the criteria.

[curtisp]

So...all of us that have ever held a radio in our hands...and tried to help answer a question posted on this forum...were actually correct. :o

I think that Rob did a nice job of explaining it.

Thanks Rob! :thumbsup:

[Hitman35]

this is a drawing of the Latemodel spoiler end cap that I have been using for the past two seasons. The drawing is the same as the dodc end cap drawing but the bold black line is where my spoiler is and i use the extra end cap as a support (bent at bold black line) is this design legal or not?

Brian Massey

[Rob Cutman]

Yes that looks like it would be perfectly legal.

[gr8pumpkin]

can i see some good side views of these legal wings mounted on the cars so i can get how they are mounted properly. please and thank you

[curtisp]

can i see some good side views of these legal wings mounted on the cars so i can get how they are mounted properly. please and thank you


Well...these aren't very good pics of the spoiler...but I had these pics on my computer already. I'll take some better pics and post them fro you.

[RacerX11]

If you want to avoid the headache. Otts speed shop sells DODC legal spoiler kits for $10+ Shipping. I got a C&M latemodel body and got the spoiler too and avoided the headache of figuring it out.


http://ottsspeedshop.com/c-m-bodies.html

[curtisp]

If you want to avoid the headache. Otts speed shop sells DODC legal spoiler kits for $10+ Shipping. http://ottsspeedshop.com/c-m-bodies.html


If you get them from there...double check the size. I bought a couple of those and found out in tech that the side panels were too big. It was an easy fix...nothing a scissors couldn't fix...they were just too big.

[curtisp]

can i see some good side views of these legal wings mounted on the cars so i can get how they are mounted properly. please and thank you

Well...it's not a great pic...but a little better than the other two. It's hard to get a good pic of the spoiler & spoiler supports when they are clear.


I hope the pic helps.

[gr8pumpkin]

thanks thats perfectly what i needed to see. I run stalker bodies so main wing will be a lil different but the winglets is what i mainly wanted to see. thanks again.

[rced]

Well...it's not a great pic...but a little better than the other two. It's hard to get a good pic of the spoiler & spoiler supports when they are clear.


I hope the pic helps.

Nice picture. I like the spoiler setup.

In the West Central IL DO series we were not allowed to have the bend in the spoiler that follows the spoiler support.

[Gary]

Nice picture. I like the spoiler setup.

In the West Central IL DO series we were not allowed to have the bend in the spoiler that follows the spoiler support.

Rear Spoilers are allowed (See DIRTOVAL.COM Late Model Rules (http://dirtoval.com/rules/index.html) for drawing and demensions).
Rear Spoiler: maximum chord is 2.750" from body deck including any wickerbills.

WCDO rules say nothing about nothing about no bend, It say DO Rules. DO rules allow a wicker Which I believe it is the Bend you see. Just saying. What up WCDO rule makers LOL

[rced]

Rear Spoilers are allowed (See DIRTOVAL.COM Late Model Rules (http://dirtoval.com/rules/index.html) for drawing and demensions).
Rear Spoiler: maximum chord is 2.750" from body deck including any wickerbills.

WCDO rules say nothing about nothing about no bend, It say DO Rules. DO rules allow a wicker Which I believe it is the Bend you see. Just saying. What up WCDO rule makers LOL

Yup, it was tech inspection who were making racers taker the bend or wickerbill out.I didn't have one so it didn't affect my car. :D I think it only affected one or two racers.

[jaredmausteller]

i love when people say......
nowhere in the rules does it say this or that.
it makes me want to smack someone for just being an ignorant person.
if it was legal, they would tell you.
quit trying to bend the rules and just race.

(this post not intended for thread originator):thumbsup::)

[suprcop67]

Yup, it was tech inspection who were making racers taker the bend or wickerbill out.I didn't have one so it didn't affect my car. :D I think it only affected one or two racers.

i guess it depends on who was doing tech. we had to bend the wicker back but there were cars that passed tech the race before with the wicker.

[rayhoe1]

i guess it depends on who was doing tech. we had to bend the wicker back but there were cars that passed tech the race before with the wicker.
and were your racin we run dodc rules but other 13.5 motors ok? and the one that pi$$e$ me off guys hit batterys at crazy amps and go to line with as high as 9.0 break track records by 4 to 6 laps thats just bull dodc rules only work if everyone follows them!!!!!!!!!!! just my :twocents: .ray

[Matt Murphy]

If you use DODC rules, wickerbills are legal. Unless otherwise specified in the rulebook... that was a bogus call.

There is a section of the rules that allows a track to run open 13.5 motors and batteries. It is a track choicce to adopt some or all of the DODC rules.

Now voltage checks should be done at ALL tracks, purely out of respect for safety.

Matt

[FULLT1LT]

Matt I would like add to your statement, wickerbills are legal as long as they are within the perameters of the template.In other words you cant have a spoiler to max dimension and have a 1/4 wicker on top of that.

[Matt Murphy]

Correct...good addition to my omission... hey that rhymed!!!

[Gary]

Matt I would like add to your statement, wickerbills are legal as long as they are within the perameters of the template.In other words you cant have a spoiler to max dimension and have a 1/4 wicker on top of that.


Where is it in the rules that the chord cant extend out side the Spoiler Cap? Seems to one of those Gray Areas! 2.75 max from body deck, If I leave mine with out a wicker it will extend beyond the back of the Cap

Rear Spoiler: maximum chord is 2.750" from body deck including any wickerbills.
Rear Spoiler Cap: See Drawing (http://www.dirtoval.com/rules/latemodelspoilersupport.pdf)

[FULLT1LT]

Where is it in the rules that the chord cant extend out side the Spoiler Cap? Seems to one of those Gray Areas! 2.75 max from body deck, If I leave mine with out a wicker it will extend beyond the back of the Cap

Rear Spoiler: maximum chord is 2.750" from body deck including any wickerbills.
Rear Spoiler Cap: See Drawing (http://www.dirtoval.com/rules/latemodelspoilersupport.pdf)



The spoiler has always exceeded the cap,I dont get what you are saying.You mean if you lay it down more?

[Gary]

See this pic if you take the wicker bill out of it the cord would extend behind the cap.

[FULLT1LT]

That has always been legal,if you use the max spoiler length---- the spoiler is always taller than the cap.I have seen guys lay it almost completely flat also and they were still legal because the length of the spoiler was 2.75 or less.I personally have never used a spoiler that tall as it costs hp in the form of drag.Also takes away too much steering because the front gets light at top end and you have to add weight to keep the front end down which costs more hp.Adding the weight wouldnt be that much of a disadvantage in an open class,but we are talking 13.5 right?The spoiler doesnt have to be attached on the sides to the cap like the 1 in the pict.It also doesnt have to follow the contour of the cap.I think this is to allow the racer a possible gray area to adjust his spoiler angle as needed for his setup.

[Gary]

Thats what I was thinking but I never know we will see what the powers to be here in IL will say about it. After talking to one or two of them I think they are thinking the same way .

[David Butts]

This is all really interesting reading and informational to boot. I'm from the old school days back when it was all sidedams with only two options(either 1 big one or 2 little ones much like todays setup). We really had the cars rockin and a rollin back then or thought we did with the motors and batteries of the day(junk by todays standards)

I've personally seen cars being run with only the current spoiler/endcap setup that would have really pissed us off back in the day. They are really geting around the track that good!

These are the glory days of dirt oval.

Keep up the good work with a standardized set of rules and it will only further this segment of the hobby. :thumbsup:

[AJS]

I think one thing that could clarify these questions is does the spoiler have to fit into the end caps front and rear and height? I think that is what Gary is pointing out.

Also is there a rule as to the max or min on the spoiler angle?

[curtisp]

That has always been legal,if you use the max spoiler length---- the spoiler is always taller than the cap.I have seen guys lay it almost completely flat also and they were still legal because the length of the spoiler was 2.75 or less.I personally have never used a spoiler that tall as it costs hp in the form of drag.Also takes away too much steering because the front gets light at top end and you have to add weight to keep the front end down which costs more hp.Adding the weight wouldnt be that much of a disadvantage in an open class,but we are talking 13.5 right?The spoiler doesnt have to be attached on the sides to the cap like the 1 in the pict.It also doesnt have to follow the contour of the cap.I think this is to allow the racer a possible gray area to adjust his spoiler angle as needed for his setup.

The car in the pic is mine.

I haven't had any issues with the spoiler taking away steering, and I haven't had to add weight to the front to get the car to turn...it turns in very well and gets through the corners very fast.

I fastened the spoiler to the end caps for a couple of reasons...it helps to support the spoiler and keep the same angle consistent...and also to keep the end caps from being ripped off when the car gets upside down. I did not do it for any gray area or to adjust the spoiler angle. That spoiler has been the same since it was put on the car...it's been the same angle and the same length.

I choose to keep the spoiler within the end caps because I thought that it looked better. I could have let the spoiler stick out past the end cap, but choose not to.