Advanced Electronics Speed Control Ruling

[Rob Cutman]

There have been several questions about the use and or legality of the Electronic Speed Controls being manufactured by Advanced Electronics. While this new ESC appears to have a sigificant advantage in some racing formats I am not aware that it has proven to be significantly faster in 2cell Dirt Oval applications. However, I am very concerned about the percieved advantage it may have whether real or not, the higher than average selling price and the lack of availability at the current time. Based off of those facts alone these speed controls will not be legal in any of the 13.5 classes for this event. They will be legal for use in any of the modified classes but NOT IN 13.5 CLASSES.

Understand that this decision was made so that we can give all of the 13.5 racers a better chance to have a level playing field for the biggest dirt oval event of the year. There are not likely very many racers who are attending this event that will already have one of these units so the negative impact of this decision should be very minimal. For those of you who may already have one and were intending on using it, Sorry.

We have taken great strides in the dirt oval community in the last year to help the racing and these classes in particular to develop in to healthy well attended events. Our efforts with these classes have been to try and do what is best for the majority of the racers, not those with sponsorships or connections of some kind. Throwing a wrench like this into the middle of this event could have a serious negative impact on the health and future prosperity of these classes.

The same ruling will apply at this point for the DODC National rules regarding these speed controls. At this time they are NOT LEGAL FOR DODC COMPETIION IN THE 13.5 SPEC CLASSES. You can expect more information and a further ruling on the legality of this and other speed controls by the end of this year for the 2010 racing season.

Thank you,
Rob Cutman

[TBRC1]

Thanks Rob it's good to see a "governing' body look out for the racer on a budget, what with the economy the way it is and such. I can say what you (and your group) have been doing has resulted in a class that seems to be growing......the 13.5 late models. I mean last Saturday at Bumps & Jumps we had more in one class the ( 13.5 late models ) than I have seen in any local pan car racing in over a yr.

[Teamt2c]

Great Move!

[Team GFRP]

Standing Ovation Here...


Great move Rob, I'm glad that you guys are stepping up on this. I have been talking about these with some of my guys and it was kinda a concern.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[JASONHastings]

Are these the ESC'S that showed up at The Ovalmasters?

[teopro27]

I'm just going to run my Bolink wiper arm set up :thumbsup:

[siggy99x]

Yes they are. No need for a $400 esc to be legal in a spec class. Great job Rob!

[JASONHastings]

Yes they are. No need for a $400 esc to be legal in a spec class. Great job Rob!Dam $400 big ones yea outlaw it grest job Rob.

[sawoff]

:thumbsup: nice job

[curtisp]

Good call. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[gindlmi]

:thumbsup: this just solidifies my decision and reminds me why I decided to park the pan car and go dirt.

[brhodes]

:thumbsup: this just solidifies my decision and reminds me why I decided to park the pan car and go dirt.


I second that!!! :thumbsup:

[cobra22431]

Yes. It gave an advantage in 1S pan oval racing. I agree with this new rule not allowing their use for now.Are these the ESC'S that showed up at The Ovalmasters?

[FossilRC]

Good call Rob, this is why the DODC spec continues to grow. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Todd Putnam]

Glad it only is outlawed for 13.5 - I'm gonna run them in nitro. lol

[Anytime72]

Are these the ESC'S that showed up at The Ovalmasters

Yes. It gave an advantage in 1S pan oval racing. I agree with this new rule not allowing their use for now.

Correction.............There was only one of the Advantage Speed Control in the building at the Oval Masters. And there was one Mamba Speedo which was modified. Although both showed advantages in 1 cell racing neither one of them changed the overall outcome of the race.

It doesn't make it easy to try and race pan cars at larger races knowing that you are at a disadvantage before you set your car down. Proper ruling such as what the DODC brings to the table and some pan car series such as the BRL makes it easier on the racers.

Good Job!!

Walter

[rj14]

I am going to go against the grain here.

I will preface this by saying that I am in full support of the DODC.

However, if the group or any group for that matter, is going to go as far as specing out motors and batts then they should also spec out or have an approved list for the esc's as well.

It would be nodifferent than having a race series that has a crate motor/EFI program. You purchase the motor from approved sources and then you hand out the ECU or have a spec ECU that can be checked in tech.

We all know within a few weeks any company that has an ESC that is updated through firmware updates, can counter act any new units that hit the market. If I have $400 to spend on equipment I should be allowed to do so.

We are 2 1/2 weeks away from this race. I think this is a little late to make this decision. Things should have been allowed to play out and a decision for next years season be made.

If LRP or Novak were to come out w/ a new speedo last week and it was $375 owuld they be banned as well?? Or even if Tekin releases an update tomorrow would you ban the update?

If Rob or anyone who has made this decision and feels my statements are so unfounded that they feel the need to clarify more.....please by all means do. You guys all know me well enough to know that I am very open and always consider multiple sides and rationale to everything.

You guys have my #, if not pm me and I will call you. Or give you my #. If you feel this should be explained offline.

rj

[Team HHS]

...well put RJ ...

[signman501]

I thought this speedo was not available to the public yet. CRC is selling the unit but I think it is not available yet. Of coarse I'm usually wrong.

[Rob Cutman]

Thank you all for your support and votes of confidence. When looking at all of the factors this was clearly the best temporary solution for this issue.

RJ,
Certainly I value everyones opinion and I will preface my response here by saying that I dont have time for a lengthy discussion about this issue at this moment, Very busy this time of year. But I will address a few of your points.


We all know within a few weeks any company that has an ESC that is updated through firmware updates, can counter act any new units that hit the market. If I have $400 to spend on equipment I should be allowed to do so. "Within a few weeks" will be too late for everyone who couldn't get one. You are allowed to spend your $400 if you want since you are signed up in Mod you can run it.


We are 2 1/2 weeks away from this race. I think this is a little late to make this decision. Things should have been allowed to play out and a decision for next years season be made. Sorry but you are way wrong on that one. The late desision is only because the issue just recently came up. Letting it play out could have had a very detrimental effect on those classes at this race. As I said this decision will only negatively affect the few who may have been able to get one. Not doing this would have negatively affected the vast majority. With the amount of money effort and expense most people have put in to this race it would have been irresponsible not to do this.

If LRP or Novak were to come out w/ a new speedo last week and it was $375 owuld they be banned as well?? Or even if Tekin releases an update tomorrow would you ban the update?
As I said in the original post, my main concerns were the price and the lack of availability. The jury is still out on whether an "update" is all that would be required to bring the Tekin to the same level of performance. People "who know" have admitted to me that neither LRP or TEKIN know exactly why it is so much faster in 1 cell racing. As I said it may not be that much better in 2 cell but this race is not the place to find out.

If Rob or anyone who has made this decision and feels my statements are so unfounded that they feel the need to clarify more.....please by all means do. You guys all know me well enough to know that I am very open and always consider multiple sides and rationale to everything.

You guys have my #, if not pm me and I will call you. Or give you my #. If you feel this should be explained offline.

rj
I dont mind explaining it here but as I said dont look for me to continue this discussion at this moment for any great length. The decision has been made and will not change. Once we get through this race we will look at further rules or guidelines for the speed controls that can be used.

Thanks,
Rob Cutman

[BrianD]

Aside from the price of the units another major issue is availability of this new unit. I called this past weekend to enquire about them and possibly getting one. I was told there was a waiting list and the ones in the first batch coming into the country were spoken for and they were unsure of when the second batch would get in. If they had been available over the last three months and you could walk into any hobby shop and pick one up then it would have given racers some time to save up and pick one for the race, but I would venture to guess that for at least 60% of the racers this post is the first they have heard of this new unit. If the average racer had an extra $400 burning a hole up in their pocket and called today and tried to order one there is a good chance he wouldn’t have it in time for the race. As more manufactures adopt this technology over the next few months they will become more readily available and competition will drive the price down, this subject may warrant revisiting at that point.

[rj14]

Thank you all for your support and votes of confidence. When looking at all of the factors this was clearly the best temporary solution for this issue.

RJ,
Certainly I value everyones opinion and I will preface my response here by saying that I dont have time for a lengthy discussion about this issue at this moment, Very busy this time of year. But I will address a few of your points.


Sorry but you are way wrong on that one. The late desision is only because the issue just recently came up. Letting it play out could have had a very detrimental effect on those classes at this race. As I said this decision will only negatively affect the few who may have been able to get one. Not doing this would have negatively affected the vast majority. With the amount of money effort and expense most people have put in to this race it would have been irresponsible not to do this.


I dont mind explaining it here but as I said dont look for me to continue this discussion at this moment for any great length. The decision has been made and will not change. Once we get through this race we will look at further rules or guidelines for the speed controls that can be used.

Thanks,
Rob Cutman

Rob,

I understand that you are busy and thanks for your response.

I respect your point of view and I can understand your position of not wanting to chance the "what if this happens to be an advantage" etc. Just by the one highlighted passage I see that you haven't been influenced by the over hype, fly off the handle nature of the group that raised the concearn over this esc. The OW is the only race I run mod at. The rest of the time it is 13.5.

I am not so hard set in my ways with this hobby that I am opposed to change or not willing to listen to reason.

Thanks,
rj

[jenzorace]

Will the novak kinetic speedcontrol be legal? They should be out soon. Ive had 2 on preorder for a month.

[teopro27]

I just got my new speedcontrol for the USOWC race....take a look!

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c343/DPEEK27/wiperarm2.jpg

here is how it works........

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c343/DPEEK27/wiperarm.jpg


And here is my new car, I love the gold look......

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c343/DPEEK27/RC10bilde1_400h.jpg


Bottom line is that no matter how technology changes we need to try to keep a level playing field, and also remember to enjoy our hobby.:beer::checkeredflag:

[AscotConversion]

Just know that the race director of the the US Indoor Champs on road race in Cleveland has said that this esc will not be legal unless 50 units are available for sale in the on site hobby shop. There are concerns across the board, and having seen it run in 1/12 and WGT pan cars, there is an obvious advantage in 1S.

Rob made a great decision:thumbsup:

[Doug D]

Don't forget about the big picture, even if these units were readily available, how is the rat race for the latest greatest brushless speed control good for the hobby? I'm sure LRP and Novak will be coming out with "must have" speedos once they figure the new technology out.

$400.oo dollars for this speed control....what a joke.:mad: How will this grow and sustain this hobby:confused:

Great call Rob!

[dylan]

now there are 2 things i agree with rob on

[Anytime72]

the price was suppose to be $350 and yes LRP will have one out shortly.

Rob has made a decision unlike other series, directors and events. Forget the price, bottom line is you just can't go into the store and buy one. It's not readily available.

[Dan D]

Correction.............There was only one of the Advantage Speed Control in the building at the Oval Masters. And there was one Mamba Speedo which was modified. Although both showed advantages in 1 cell racing neither one of them changed the overall outcome of the race.

It doesn't make it easy to try and race pan cars at larger races knowing that you are at a disadvantage before you set your car down. Proper ruling such as what the DODC brings to the table and some pan car series such as the BRL makes it easier on the racers.

Good Job!!

Walter

what about the mamba ESCs, will they be legal? how were they modified and is the modification legal?

[Anytime72]

As far as I know it's a mod that makes it perform in Single Cell.

[BrianD]

Having only heard 3rd hand that was my understanding as well. With the mod te speed control would only work with 1s.

[staatsbmxkid]

lol great post peek. dont know anything about this speed control and as the concern seems to be, this is huge advantage in 1s would it equal to whats out in 2s or twice as good. i think its great that rob is looking out for the majority here since there is almost no chance anyone could get one before the race.

[WYD]

As far as I know it's a mod that makes it perform in Single Cell.It is nothing like the Black Diamond esc that guys are using in single cell stock lipo racing. Problem with the esc is you plug your receiver pack into the speedo and the speedo is only suppose to apply the receiver pack power to the servo and receiver but it is fairly easy to see that it isn't really doing that. Its applying some of that extra power to the motor like when coming out of corners. Don't seem like much but to those that seen it first hand in 1/12 scale know.


Here is the Castle modification that is done to use the new Mamba Max Pro in single cell racing. "There is a voltage regulator in the speedo that needs to be removed for 1cell applications. No soldering iron needed. There is also 1cell beta software for it.

Brian

[AscotConversion]

It does not use any rx pack voltage to the motor. What it appears to do is use timing ramps properly suited to 1S voltage, which produces less motor RPM. The mamba supposedly is so good because you can also add in a ton of timing beyond what is normal for 2S. The CRC guys have run the advance with the battery plugged into the rx like everybody else, and it was just as fast.

[cobra22431]

Todd Putnam should know whats going on here. Step up to the plate and explain for us so we can be educated on whats going on please. To much guess work and word of mouth being posted to be sure. Sounds like this will affect our DODC racing in the future and the more we know will help us voice our opinion to help Rob C and the boys make the next right decision. When they first came out with the DODC brushless package I was a happy camper! The best thing to happen to RC racing in years!


Sorry to put you on the spot Todd but we all know your the king of power! LOL

[Anytime72]

No need for Todd to step in, Rob already took care of the chance that this could hurt the race. Most of the info here is correct except for the fact that the reciever pack feeds the motor extra voltage.

[Todd Putnam]

Todd Putnam should know whats going on here. Step up to the plate and explain for us so we can be educated on whats going on please. To much guess work and word of mouth being posted to be sure. Sounds like this will affect our DODC racing in the future and the more we know will help us voice our opinion to help Rob C and the boys make the next right decision. When they first came out with the DODC brushless package I was a happy camper! The best thing to happen to RC racing in years!


Sorry to put you on the spot Todd but we all know your the king of power! LOL

Simply stated, AE has focused on 1S and their speed control currently has an advantage in 1S applications, all done within the confines of the rules. It's a speedo, not a magic box.

Rob made a good call by not allowing them in 13.5 - based on cost and availability alone - regardless of their performance. :thumbsup:

[k-clark]

Glad to see a sanctioning body on top of things.I agree with Mr Putnam..price and availability alone are reason enough to make the call at this time.Thanks DODC guys :thumbsup:.

[SMROCKET]

The advanced speedo was sold out befiore it got to the state ... Good call as no one wants to set their cars down thinking they are at a disadvantage.... .... I secodn the motion that it wouldnt matter in 2 cell racing .... Have anice Turkeyday to all..

ROCKET

[cobra22431]

Im not questioning the decision, I agree 100%. im looking for info on how the speedo gains advantage for future decisions. From what I read that sounds correct is the speedo limits rpm making the motor have high torque and then gear up is this correct??. It has shown it can work well in 1S but how about 2S??I know a bit about electronics from working in a power supply business for 30 years, I know its not magic, just want to understand itSimply stated, AE has focused on 1S and their speed control currently has an advantage in 1S applications, all done within the confines of the rules. It's a speedo, not a magic box.

Rob made a good call by not allowing them in 13.5 - based on cost and availability alone - regardless of their performance. :thumbsup:

[AscotConversion]

Pretty sure it's the opposite, it adds more timing for more RPM. I have heard most guys are running a smaller pinion w/this.

[screamingeagle]

rob, according to the rules on this site for 13-5 it says the esc must be sensored only but most guys are running the tekin rs which in its own descriptions says it is a senored/sensorless speed control. isn't this a breech of the rules? I have an old gtb with no adjustments and I am getting a new adjustable esc. I guess I just want to know what is legal and what isn't

[TCOval]

The tekin and new mamba pro are legal as long as the user runs it sensored, if he chooses to run it without the sensor wire it will be illegal.. even if he "accidentally" loses the sensor wire during a race it will be illegal upon tech...

[rj14]

The tekin and new mamba pro are legal as long as the user runs it sensored, if he chooses to run it without the sensor wire it will be illegal.. even if he "accidentally" loses the sensor wire during a race it will be illegal upon tech...


Motors & Batteries
<LI type=circle>17.5 Spec: DirtOval.com SPEC 17.5 MOTORS and DirtOval.com SPEC Li-Po 3200mah batteries are the only motors and batteries legal for this class. Sensored Speed controls only. Spec motors and batteries will be available for purchase by November 1, 2008.

<LI type=circle>13.5 Spec: DirtOval.com SPEC 13.5 MOTORS and DirtOval.com SPEC Li-Po 3200mah batteries are the only motors and batteries legal for this class. Sensored speed controls only. Spec motors and batteries will be available for purchase by November 1, 2008.

Modified: All motor systems must meet ROAR Brushless specification with the exception of the MAMBA MAX system from Caslte Creations which will also be legal for modified. Sensored or sensorless speed controls are allowed in modified only. Race organizers may impose a minimum turn limit at their discretion. Any 7.4V LiPo battery will be legal for modified but batteries must use a quick release hobby grade connector for connection to the ESC ie:sermos, deans, traxxas.
I don't see where if the sensor wires fall out of a sensored speed control the car will be deemed illegal....

I do see that the speed control MUST be sensored to use it in the 13.5 or 17.5 classes.

Pretty cut and dry.....

[curtisp]

rob, according to the rules on this site for 13-5 it says the esc must be sensored only but most guys are running the tekin rs which in its own descriptions says it is a senored/sensorless speed control. isn't this a breech of the rules? I have an old gtb with no adjustments and I am getting a new adjustable esc. I guess I just want to know what is legal and what isn't

Actually the rules do not state that the esc must be sensored only.

As you can see in RJ'a post...the rules state that only sensored speed controls may be used. The way that I read that is that it does not allow the use of sensorless speed controls in the 17.5 & 13.5 classes...but it doesn't say anything about speed controls that are both sensored & sensorless. It's all a matter of the order that you choose to read the words.

The Tekin RS meets the guidline - "Sensored Speed controls only." It is a sensored speed control.






Motors & Batteries

<LI type=circle>17.5 Spec: DirtOval.com SPEC 17.5 MOTORS and DirtOval.com SPEC Li-Po 3200mah batteries are the only motors and batteries legal for this class. Sensored Speed controls only. Spec motors and batteries will be available for purchase by November 1, 2008.

<LI type=circle>13.5 Spec: DirtOval.com SPEC 13.5 MOTORS and DirtOval.com SPEC Li-Po 3200mah batteries are the only motors and batteries legal for this class. Sensored speed controls only. Spec motors and batteries will be available for purchase by November 1, 2008.

Modified: All motor systems must meet ROAR Brushless specification with the exception of the MAMBA MAX system from Caslte Creations which will also be legal for modified. Sensored or sensorless speed controls are allowed in modified only. Race organizers may impose a minimum turn limit at their discretion. Any 7.4V LiPo battery will be legal for modified but batteries must use a quick release hobby grade connector for connection to the ESC ie:sermos, deans, traxxas.
I don't see where if the sensor wires fall out of a sensored speed control the car will be deemed illegal....

I do see that the speed control MUST be sensored to use it in the 13.5 or 17.5 classes.

Pretty cut and dry.....

[TQ Cells]

I think Curtisp hit the nail on the head.

Steve.

[Porksalot4l]

Will the mamba max pro be legal in 13.5 edm if ran with the sensor wire. Thanks!!!

[Rob Cutman]

For the short answer to this question, yes the TEKIN speed control is legal for the 13.5 class and all ESC's in that class must use the sensor harness. At this point the only speed control that is not legal is the AE speed control described at the beginning of this thread. The rule was written over a year ago and is obviously not clear enough to accurately describe the current speed controls that are on the market and readily available at a fair price which is the primary concern in this matter. As I mentioned we will look at this situation further after the open wheel race and a clearer and perhaps more defined rule will be in place regarding speed control legality. It was pretty easy to see these issues were on the horizon for a while with the emerging technology that Brushless ESC's have to offer.

Thank you all for your understanding and support with this matter.

Rob

[WYD]

Will the mamba max pro be legal in 13.5 edm if ran with the sensor wire. Thanks!!!Yes it is a sensored speed control and meets all rules. Many guys are already running this speedo at Bumps in mod and 13.5.

[Porksalot4l]

Yes it is a sensored speed control and meets all rules. Many guys are already running this speedo at Bumps in mod and 13.5.


oh ok i didnt know for sure and b4 i start using one id like to know its legal in 13.5 edm. i know its legal in MOD but wasnt to sure about 13.5. thanks for the clarification. has anyone had good luck with this speedo yet? and also how about a base line rollout for it? thanks!

[Anytime72]

I'd like to know who is running one.

[JAC9]

I'd like to know who is running one.

I have a Mamba installed but not run yet on the track. It will be run tomorrow.

[teopro27]

Save your drama for your mamba....lol Looks like the Mamba is the speedo to have....:thumbsup:

[Porksalot4l]

no drama yet but im pretty sure allowing the mamba for this race could leave a sour taste in some peoples mouth. but it is a good deal though. just gonna really suck if all of the A main has one in there car in the 13.5 class. lol usually scandal like this is only in pan car racing! and look how well thats working out... :thumbsup::cool:

[Rob Cutman]

Just to better clarify our position the Mamba Max is also legal in the 13.5 class. It certainly is inexpensive at $149.00 and has for the most part been available for purchase. As mentioned regarding the AE speed control those are the 2 primary concerns with ESC legality.

As far as any advantage it may have I believe the environment and type of racing at Bumps will be less conducive to displaying any advantage that would be gained at a larger track with longer straightaways. My understanding is that these ESC's maximize their performance as the load is decreased such as accellerating down a straightaway. The fact that we are using 2 cells and bumps is for the most part a circle where the car is under load for the majority of the lap may make it not that big a deal. I know some guys have already run them there and it doesnt appear that there has been much difference from their runs before and after using this ESC.

As I said you can expect to see a better and more clearly defined set of rules regarding the ESC's for next years rules.

Thanks,
Rob

[TQ Cells]

no drama yet but im pretty sure allowing the mamba for this race could leave a sour taste in some peoples mouth. but it is a good deal though. just gonna really suck if all of the A main has one in there car in the 13.5 class. lol usually scandal like this is only in pan car racing! and look how well thats working out... :thumbsup::cool:

Unless you know something I don't, the Mamba Max Pro isn't much of an advantage in 2s as it is in 1s application. I agree with Rob that it shouldn't be that big of a factor next week.

Steve.

[Porksalot4l]

Awesome let's go racing

[rj14]

no drama yet but im pretty sure allowing the mamba for this race could leave a sour taste in some peoples mouth. but it is a good deal though. just gonna really suck if all of the A main has one in there car in the 13.5 class. lol usually scandal like this is only in pan car racing! and look how well thats working out... :thumbsup::cool:

Go ahead and get sucked in to the Mamba trap.....in six months they will offer a whole new unit that is better than the last that renders the previous model obsolete and non-upgradeable w/ downloadable software or firmware. Go through that a few times and you will have paid just as much as one esc that is fully internet upgradable. You can pay $250 once or $130 twice or 3x.

Of course this is just my opinion....and everyone knows I know nuttin!

[teopro27]

I just got my new speedcontrol for the USOWC race....take a look!

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c343/DPEEK27/wiperarm2.jpg

here is how it works........

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c343/DPEEK27/wiperarm.jpg


And here is my new car, I love the gold look......

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c343/DPEEK27/RC10bilde1_400h.jpg


Bottom line is that no matter how technology changes we need to try to keep a level playing field, and also remember to enjoy our hobby.:beer::checkeredflag:


Bring back the spec wiper arm.....:ha:

[rj14]

Bring back the spec wiper arm.....:ha:

I was very happy to get a Novak 4, I couldn't get a wiper to last more than a few packs on 8 1700 scr's. No thanks, you can have the wiper!!

[WYD]

Go ahead and get sucked in to the Mamba trap.....in six months they will offer a whole new unit that is better than the last that renders the previous model obsolete and non-upgradeable w/ downloadable software or firmware. Go through that a few times and you will have paid just as much as one esc that is fully internet upgradable. You can pay $250 once or $130 twice or 3x.

Of course this is just my opinion....and everyone knows I know nuttin!One thing about Castle is since 2000 they made 3 speedos for cars. Mamba Max was the first and a pure sensorless system and then the cheaper Sidewinder only in 2007 which was a cheaper version that ran less agressive sensorless motors and now the Mamba Max Pro that runs sensorless and sensored.

Castle never has been the new speedo of the week club and sinc it is programable off the computer when they have updates they are posted on the website and are free. At 130 bucks the hype is you get a speedo that not only can run sensored or sensorless but can run 1/12th, 1/10th and 1/8th scales plus all that and can also run 6s lipo so the hype is for 130 bucks you get by far the most versatile speedo on the market today.

Non of the big companies make a speedo that stacks up in a do it all speedo. Others have ones for specific applications but non can do it all except the MMP.

The companies that make programmable speedos don't neeed to make a new speedo of the week but can and do change the programming as often as needed. In the few short months I ran touring cars they had 2 or 3 different programs in less than a month and then you need to know TEAM DRIVERS to get the latest and greatest. Castle don't roll like that and never has. You the consumer have the ability to get new programming just like me who racers and tests for them. What you can download is no different than what I can so that is another huge difference so it is a way more fair playing field.

[Porksalot4l]

im not getting caught up into the hype of anything really. i buy 1 speedo maybe once a year or so. but the good deal of the mamba is somthing else. i just wish they were easy to find when its this close to a big race. im pretty much good to go though and cant wait to race. im a D main driver and loving it so lets go burn up the track! :)

[Dragula]

Non of the big companies make a speedo that stacks up in a do it all speedo. Others have ones for specific applications but non can do it all except the MMP.

The companies that make programmable speedos don't neeed to make a new speedo of the week but can and do change the programming as often as needed. In the few short months I ran touring cars they had 2 or 3 different programs in less than a month and then you need to know TEAM DRIVERS to get the latest and greatest. Castle don't roll like that and never has. You the consumer have the ability to get new programming just like me who racers and tests for them. What you can download is no different than what I can so that is another huge difference so it is a way more fair playing field.

The Tekin's are priced competative with the Castle ones and at only a few bucks more for the RS units vs. the Castle ones, it shouldn't really be an issue of mearly cost, but more of a choice or preference. Currently the going price is at $159 for the RS units at various hobby shops...As for only the Team Drivers handing out the software, you can ask any of us at any time, and you will recieve it. That is mainly so that when new changes roll out & you get the software upgrade, you understand the changes and don't end up looking for a new motor as well. Some of the changes can affect gearing & set-up signifigantly while others do not. Besides, drivers for Tekin have been posting the latest software right on this sight for anyone to download, so I don't think its a question of availability or preference to just the Team Drivers and the site usually gets updated shortly afterwords. Now, not telling you what the changes are would give us an advantage.

[latemodel13]

I heard the mamba had an advantage and was ready to buy one. I have found out that it was on 1 cell lipo and people are doing an internal mod to them to make it faster. The new ones are going to have this mod done from the factory. I don't think it will come into play running 2 cell . The Mamba max pro looks to be a great buy though and will probably be allmost as good as my Speedpassion GT 2.0 :D

[cobra22431]

The latest is 200 for the tekin??The Tekin's are priced competative with the Castle ones and at only a few bucks more for the RS units vs. the Castle ones, it shouldn't really be an issue of mearly cost, but more of a choice or preference. Currently the going price is at $159 for the RS units at various hobby shops...As for only the Team Drivers handing out the software, you can ask any of us at any time, and you will recieve it. That is mainly so that when new changes roll out & you get the software upgrade, you understand the changes and don't end up looking for a new motor as well. Some of the changes can affect gearing & set-up signifigantly while others do not. Besides, drivers for Tekin have been posting the latest software right on this sight for anyone to download, so I don't think its a question of availability or preference to just the Team Drivers and the site usually gets updated shortly afterwords.

[Porksalot4l]

I heard the mamba had an advantage and was ready to buy one. I have found out that it was on 1 cell lipo and people are doing an internal mod to them to make it faster. The new ones are going to have this mod done from the factory. I don't think it will come into play running 2 cell . The Mamba max pro looks to be a great buy though and will probably be allmost as good as my Speedpassion GT 2.0 :D


you hit the nail on the head. shouldnt make a big deal in 2cell. next week we will find out for sure though. plus on dirt oval i dont know how much of a difference it would make since we all know its a little more tough to get the power down to the ground

[ctsieber]

you hit the nail on the head. shouldnt make a big deal in 2cell. next week we will find out for sure though. plus on dirt oval i dont know how much of a difference it would make since we all know its a little more tough to get the power down to the ground
you didn't see how black the track got last week? Putting the power down shouldn't be a problem. esp with just a 13.5.

[Dragula]

The latest is 200 for the tekin??


Yes. And it was posted on this site here:

http://dirtoval.com/forums/showthread.php?p=345735&highlight=200#post345735

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

One thing about Castle is since 2000 they made 3 speedos for cars. Mamba Max was the first and a pure sensorless system and then the cheaper Sidewinder only in 2007 which was a cheaper version that ran less agressive sensorless motors and now the Mamba Max Pro that runs sensorless and sensored.

Castle never has been the new speedo of the week club and sinc it is programable off the computer when they have updates they are posted on the website and are free. At 130 bucks the hype is you get a speedo that not only can run sensored or sensorless but can run 1/12th, 1/10th and 1/8th scales plus all that and can also run 6s lipo so the hype is for 130 bucks you get by far the most versatile speedo on the market today.

Non of the big companies make a speedo that stacks up in a do it all speedo. Others have ones for specific applications but non can do it all except the MMP.

The companies that make programmable speedos don't neeed to make a new speedo of the week but can and do change the programming as often as needed. In the few short months I ran touring cars they had 2 or 3 different programs in less than a month and then you need to know TEAM DRIVERS to get the latest and greatest. Castle don't roll like that and never has. You the consumer have the ability to get new programming just like me who racers and tests for them. What you can download is no different than what I can so that is another huge difference so it is a way more fair playing field.

I must agree here. I've been running a Mamba Max ESC for almost 3 years now. Castle's tech support has been great. The really great thing about their crew is they actively own and run other manufacturer's ESC. So they know how they stack up first hand. I've done at least a half dozen software updates to my Mamba's over the years. I've never yet had any issues or failures.

[WYD]

The Tekin's are priced competative with the Castle ones and at only a few bucks more for the RS units vs. the Castle ones, it shouldn't really be an issue of mearly cost, but more of a choice or preference. Currently the going price is at $159 for the RS units at various hobby shops...As for only the Team Drivers handing out the software, you can ask any of us at any time, and you will recieve it. That is mainly so that when new changes roll out & you get the software upgrade, you understand the changes and don't end up looking for a new motor as well. Some of the changes can affect gearing & set-up signifigantly while others do not. Besides, drivers for Tekin have been posting the latest software right on this sight for anyone to download, so I don't think its a question of availability or preference to just the Team Drivers and the site usually gets updated shortly afterwords. Now, not telling you what the changes are would give us an advantage.Not everyone knows a Tekin driver so that is still where Castle is different. If I have the software as a team driver its already up on the site for customers. You don't need to know anyone.

SUre Tekin offers a $159 speedo but it don't run 6s lipo, don't run lower than 6.5 brushless, don't run 1/8th buggy motors and don't need to know a team driver for the newest software so while Tekin has a speedo within 30 bucks its not near as versatile as the MMP. I can't help thats the way the facts line up.

I still have Tekin software that wasn't put out to the public and I don't even run for Tekin so its a matter of who you know!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is it better I would say no but its still stuff that others couldn't get unless they where lucky enough to know the right team guys.

[teopro27]

The powers to be should look at a spec speedcontrol for next year in the 13.5 classes. Something that cant be fooled with, no software!

[WYD]

The powers to be should look at a spec speedcontrol for next year in the 13.5 classes. Something that cant be fooled with, no software!Yes then a new racer will spend 90 on a DODC pack, 90 on a DODC motor and then another occured expense of at leat 100 bucks for a DODC spec speedo. 300 bucks before you even think of racing.

RIght now the package as it is works. While every speedo is fast enough to win and with them outlawing the AE speedo things are pretty good.

The Tekin, Castle, LRP and even old Novaks are all fast enough to win. THe software that is available to all is plenty for any racer to keep up. Most of the new stuff out has a perceived notion of being faster but in the end at Bumps the winner will be the one with the best setup and more than likely is the overall most talented driver............not what speedo they have in.

[solly]

The powers to be should look at a spec speedcontrol for next year in the 13.5 classes. Something that cant be fooled with, no software!

batteries and motor i think i can live with. esc next? then spec body? chassis? tires? no thanks

[JimmyD]

Yeah it is starting to sound NASCAR like...:eek:

[WYD]

Right now the LRP SPX, MMP, Tekin RS, and Novak GTB are the most popular speedos out at this time with some running the LRP Sphere Touring Spec and out of these even with the extra programming of some anyone of these brands can win.

Again I can't wait to see who wins because it will be the one who can deal with the massive black groove track. The winner will be the best setup and wheel for those conditions.

[WYD]

batteries and motor i think i can live with. esc next? then spec body? chassis? tires? no thanksGuys already match the lipo packs and check overall voltages of these packs to that is an advantage all in its own. Solly is right the covered the a good amount of the problems. The only way to even try to stop it is everyone runs the same brand motor, battery, speedo, car, body, gearing, tires, oils, springs and so on. Would anyone really want to have it come to that?

[curtisp]

batteries and motor i think i can live with. esc next? then spec body? chassis? tires? no thanks


I agree!

[FossilRC]

I have to agree, we have enough spec now. As solly and wyd pointed out, leave it as it is for now. If u keep changing things you drive racer's away instead of gainig new ones. Not everyone that races can afford to or wants to keep changing to new product because classes keep changing.

[rj14]

no need to spec anything more!!! please!

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

I agree!

no need to spec anything more!!! please!

:thumbsup: AGREE.

[WYD]

If you spec a pack in the future you might just want to look at keeping packs at lets say 5000 2 cell lipo 40C or less. That opens it up some but for those that don't want to spend 130 for a 5k 40C pack allows for guys to run like the cheap Yeah Racing 25c packs or something like that. Maybe down the road spec any 13.5 motor. All could be considerations when the existing rules package runs out.

At least now the DODC setup looks to be working pretty well overall and I think electric has grown in general because of lipos and brushless. Everyone now has access to fast equipment like never before. Everyone can easily purchase fast equipment without having to know someone or have to be sponsored.

[Rob Cutman]

The powers to be should look at a spec speedcontrol for next year in the 13.5 classes. Something that cant be fooled with, no software!

Not gonna Happen

[irocz69]

Not gonna Happen

Thank you. The R/C gods have spoken ! :thumbsup::thumbsup: NO CHANGES w/speedo !

GO FAST TURN LEFT ! Keith S.

[teopro27]

Not gonna Happen


I'm going to keep one of every brand speedcontrol in my box, so when the software comes out I will be ready....:ha:

[solly]

i have people working on esc virus's for all brands of speed controls, better bring those wiper arm resistors.

[cobra22431]

I have allways found setup and driving ability to be more important than anything. The advantage of this one speedo on 1S may be a small exception to that. The small differances in each others battery or motor if kept in good condition will only make a very small differance (if rolled out correctly) and will only really matter if you hit the setup right on the nose and drove very well and a good number of other drivers did the same, Same thing for speedos. The DODC rules the way they are are very good and the guys behind them are doing a great job.


Solly stop they dont make a wiper speedo for brushless LOL

[WYD]

I'm going to keep one of every brand speedcontrol in my box, so when the software comes out I will be ready....:ha:Nice. For the record the fastest lap at Bumps in electric was Max Flurer in 13.5 EDM with an old school LRP Sphere TC Spec at 3.88 I think the lap was. So already next to the GTB the oldest school speedo with a great car setup is already the fastest.:ha: Blows the theory off what a fast speedo needs to have. Again a great car with a great driver is what is needed not the brand of speedo you use.

[WYD]

i have people working on esc virus's for all brands of speed controls, better bring those wiper arm resistors.You been watching too much Independance Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you find a Will Smith and Jeff Goldbloom?:D

[WYD]

Oh for those who would like to know Castle Creations put out over 4500 of these new speedos in the last 2 1/2 months. Now are on backorder for the next 5 weeks. Tekins RS Pros only are now finally in stock after over 3 months wait and still no RS in site so its happening to alot of esc companies. Demand is bigger than the guys can make at this time. Honestly a great thing to see these companies booming in this day and age.

[curtisp]

Not gonna Happen


Thank you sir!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[jenzorace]

i have people working on esc virus's for all brands of speed controls, better bring those wiper arm resistors.
Someone call the geek squad!!! My speedo has a trojan virus!!

[curtisp]

Someone call the geek squad!!! My speedo has a trojan virus!!


I thought that Trojans were supposed to prevent viruses!!! :o

[rj14]

i have people working on esc virus's for all brands of speed controls, better bring those wiper arm resistors.

this does not surprise me

[cobra22431]

Stop surfin porn with your speedo plugged into the PC and you wont have these problems LOLSomeone call the geek squad!!! My speedo has a trojan virus!!

[jenzorace]

Stop surfin porn with your speedo plugged into the PC and you wont have these problems LOL
For some reason i keep getting popups!:eek:

[rj14]

For some reason i keep getting popups!:eek:


here is a pop-up blocker for ya-


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:CxrtKMsoYBNMCM:http://www.prohockeyequipment.com/images/ar/hockey_cup_supporter.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.prohockeyequipment.com/images/ar/hockey_cup_supporter.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.prohockeyequipment.com/hockey-jock-shorts-cups.html&usg=__5K-rcy-LFpbPriW6uSRaMri7Wu4=&h=296&w=300&sz=33&hl=en&start=3&itbs=1&tbnid=CxrtKMsoYBNMCM:&tbnh=114&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsupporter%2Bcup%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%2 6sa%3DG)


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:nLEdH8cukK_XLM:http://gingersnaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/tammy-faye-07-18-07.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://gingersnaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/tammy-faye-07-18-07.jpg&imgrefurl=http://gingersnaps.wordpress.com/2007/07/19/in-praise-of-tammy-faye/&usg=__OL6GWjcT95MZIs0u0gtfSbR981E=&h=1625&w=2100&sz=318&hl=en&start=3&itbs=1&tbnid=nLEdH8cukK_XLM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtammy%2Bfaye%2Bbaker%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3 Den)

[jenzorace]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[JTRAIN]

MMMMMMMMMMMMM!!! Jerky

[megasaxon]

MMMMMMMMMMMMM!!! Jerky


LMAO!

FYI, the 'mod' that is done to MMP speedo doesn't make it faster in 1 cell. it takes about a minute to complete and all you do is remove the BEC chip, no soldering iron required. The speed control will not work AT ALL with 1cell until you do this. and you have to update the speedo with the 1cell software which has a few lines of code removed to allow the speedo to work with the BEC removed.

[TCOval]

1- The eccusation that the advance and MMP speedo mod used reciever pack voltage simply cannot be true from the standpoint of anyone who actually thinks about it (sorry WYD) If the speedo was drawing voltage from the reciever pack the pack would not last a full race and the transponder would not continue to count laps, not to mention the steering servo and reciever would not be very happy either.... So any advantage the set-up might possibly give for the first 30-60 seconds would be negated fairly quickly afterwards... Remember they use 300Mah or less cells for reciever packs.. now if these guys come out using much higher capacity cells (1800's) for reciever packs then you could suspect something....

2- This is a dirtoval forum, and nobody that I know of races 1s in dirt oval as of now, so the 1s dscussion is kinda worthless on here... Let the paved oval guys argue it out... The only reason Rob needs to keep an eye on situations like these is so he can nip them in the butt before they have a chance to infect DODC....

Just as he had already done.... oh and paved oval problems also effect the other half of the CW buisness...

[BIG BUBBA]

Good call Rob... RJ, just go away. From what I've read of some of your other post on other topics you're always going against the grain..:confused: