Limited VS Open sprints

[Smokinnitro]

There has been alot of talk in our area about the limited sprints Vs the Open sprints.
People feel there is not enough seperation in the speeds between these 2 classes. When the classes are mixed the racing suffers. Limited car are faster thru the corners but slower down the straights where the Opens catch them. Maybe the Opens should be allowed to run a bigger wing. I'm not sure what the answer. Please voice your opinion

[rj14]

The Open sprints are using the power to compensate for the set-up. Realistically in PA there is only a couple of tracks in which the Limiteds shouldn't be competetive with the Opens.

It all goes back to the saying that slow is fast. And smooth beats erratic and balistic!

[ctsieber]

There has been alot of talk in our area about the limited sprints Vs the Open sprints.
People feel there is not enough seperation in the speeds between these 2 classes. When the classes are mixed the racing suffers. Limited car are faster thru the corners but slower down the straights where the Opens catch them. Maybe the Opens should be allowed to run a bigger wing. I'm not sure what the answer. Please voice your opinion

Where has the racing suffered? I ran with the open sprints at staubs a couple weeks ago with no problems.

[irocz69]

Where has the racing suffered? I ran with the open sprints at staubs a couple weeks ago with no problems.

I agree w/Curt. Even though I don't run the class I am very interested in the Limited Sprints & watch them race often. I see drivers like Kerstetter, Bowie, & Boyd, just to name a few do very well against the Open Motors. In my opinion, JRC is probably the only track that Open Sprints would have an advantage because of the long straightaways. So,I really don't think the racing is suffering. I believe if you can run w/the BIG DOGS then have @ it !

GO FAST TURN LEFT ! Keith S.

[Rob Cutman]

I get what you are saying but Im just not sure why it would be a problem or that the racing would suffer. The idea of the limited class with the TG motor was more about offering a SPEC type motor for the drivers who didnt want to chase the latest and greatest horsepower. The reason for not allowing the front wing was in an effort to reduce the corner speeds. What is likely happening is the Limited cars are much more consistent and less likely to overdrive the corner and therefore carry more speed through the corners. I don't see a need to change the classes as they arent suppose to run together and offer two pretty differnt options for a racer. If the lap times end up fairly close at some tracks I really dont see why that would be a problem if they are ran as separate classes.

Rob

[Smokinnitro]

I agree w/Curt. Even though I don't run the class I am very interested in the Limited Sprints & watch them race often. I see drivers like Kerstetter, Bowie, & Boyd, just to name a few do very well against the Open Motors. In my opinion, JRC is probably the only track that Open Sprints would have an advantage because of the long straightaways. So,I really don't think the racing is suffering. I believe if you can run w/the BIG DOGS then have @ it !

GO FAST TURN LEFT ! Keith S.

My point exactly why run 2 classes and dilute the racers if there is no real speed difference in the cars. Give the open cars an aero advantage. See the following rules for sprint cars at the Grove

Williams Grove 358 top wing rules:FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]
2. Top Wing – Maximum size to be 16 square feet, must be one piece.

Williams Grove 410 top wing rules:

a) Center Foil maximum size of 25 square feet with a maximum width of 60 inches.

[Smokinnitro]

I'm just trying to define some seperation in the class. I dont want make the Limited cars change just open the rule for the open cars.

[rj14]

I'm just trying to define some seperation in the class. I dont want make the Limited cars change just open the rule for the open cars.

Don't take this the wrong way.....but, are you mad that you spent $400 on an open motor only to get beat by a car w/ a TG?

What difference does it make? If there isn't enough cars for a limited field, you are in the same situation......

The limited class has brought new racers into sprints and lm's. There are probably a half dozen racers or more whom ran only one car. Now w/ the limiteds they have gone to racing multiple cars. How does this really hurt any of the classes?

[Ron]

cudos RJ14

[MRDmotorsports]

i havent been to the track much this year, but i like the limited class. i will admit i havent figured out some of the tricks with headers and pipes/fuel/etc that some people have found, but i think it is definatly beneficial for those getting into racing and those that have been in it for awhile. from talking to drivers, most are becoming better drivers and better set-up guys from running limited.

[ctsieber]

i havent been to the track much this year, but i like the limited class. i will admit i havent figured out some of the tricks with headers and pipes/fuel/etc that some people have found, but i think it is definatly beneficial for those getting into racing and those that have been in it for awhile. from talking to drivers, most are becoming better drivers and better set-up guys from running limited.

trick with headers and pipes? RD logics turbo 3 outlaw and a nova rossi 2630 are the 2 pipes I've used this year. Fuel? Byrons 30%

[Cablemn]

I'm just trying to define some seperation in the class. I dont want make the Limited cars change just open the rule for the open cars.

:thumbsup::thumbsup: I 2nd this :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Can we put this to a vote?

[Rcer19]

It all goes back to the saying that slow is fast. And smooth beats erratic and balistic!

you are neither, smooth nor balistic!!!!

[Rcer19]

my brother and i find this topic to be interesting, and he is just "waiting" for me to comment, lol, Trust me i will when the time is right,but i will say this, i do agree with greg that since the inception of the limited class and the LM class all they have done is split classes and make for smaller fields on a LOCAL level, Limited sprint split the sprint class, and LM split 3 classes, EDM OLM and LLM, now instead of running against 20 cars in a class on a weekly basis we race against 8 to 10, how is that helping, guys get bored against running with the same 8 people everyweek and stop running a class because of it,
And if your gonna use the $ factor in this discussion, your obviously delusional

[Breckenridge]

I will agree with Nick. I think on the local level if a track is getting consistently good car counts in all 4 classes, then they should run all 4. If one or two of the classes is only drawing 8 to 10 entries, then it's probably better to eliminate them. In central PA, what I have noticed is that LLM and Open Sprint seem to be the two most popular of the 4 classes. I would prefer if we just ran these two classes and eliminated LS and OLM for weekly races. As always, not everyone will agree with me.

I remember before I had a nitro car I would go down to Newville to watch on Saturday nights. They only ran 3 classes, Open Sprint, Truck, and Sportsman (at some point they added EDM.) Qualifying was always interesting to watch because there would be 5 or 6 heats of Open Sprint and you never knew who was going to be in the A. Just making the A was an accomplishment.

Nick is right, racing against the same 6 guys every week and knowing you are always going to be in the A takes a lot of the excitement out of it.

But I think we may have to delay this discussion until January, at least in central PA. With the OW race coming to B&J, there should be strong weekly crowds in all classes leading up to it.

[kerstetter]

I want to run with as many people as possible as well thats why I dont care if you put open and limited together for most tracks its fine I also realize if I want to compete with phil c. I need an open motor and alot of practice at the track but I think since running the tg class I have improved alot faster as far as a money issue I have to disagree with you there if I am going to buy an open motor it will be a murnan modified there like what 500$ I just bought 2 tg engines for 184$ cya saturday to discuss this further. my brother and i find this topic to be interesting, and he is just "waiting" for me to comment, lol, Trust me i will when the time is right,but i will say this, i do agree with greg that since the inception of the limited class and the LM class all they have done is split classes and make for smaller fields on a LOCAL level, Limited sprint split the sprint class, and LM split 3 classes, EDM OLM and LLM, now instead of running against 20 cars in a class on a weekly basis we race against 8 to 10, how is that helping, guys get bored against running with the same 8 people everyweek and stop running a class because of it,
And if your gonna use the $ factor in this discussion, your obviously delusional

[Rcer19]

OK QUIZ TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
whats the 1st thing you need to go fast?
A-- a 500.00 motor
B-- a TG motor that has the rotary carbs switched?
C--20 sets of tires?
D--n all of the above?
Man and i have been such a good boy all yr, lol

[kerstetter]

E none of the above first thing you need is to be a good driver motor is last on my list OK QUIZ TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
whats the 1st thing you need to go fast?
A-- a 500.00 motor
B-- a TG motor that has the rotary carbs switched?
C--20 sets of tires?
D--n all of the above?
Man and i have been such a good boy all yr, lol

[Rcer19]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ok, here is where the education now starts,
1st of all you do not need a Murnan Modified motor to compete, Mike Schell uses RBMODS and he is no faster than i am or anyone else, I ran a USED TZ 3 port all summer that is 3 years old and i was just as fast as anybody, so your "theory" of needeing a Modified motor is unfounded, I am also going to run a 159.00 Novarossi TS1 which will be MORE than competitive on a weekly basis, And if you bought 2 TG's for 184. i bet they were the Rotary carbs, weren't they? So your "i bought 2 motors for $184" is bull Chit then isn't it?
I am not saying the limited class is a bad thing, i am saying that IMO all it really did was deplete classes,
All you small minded pinheads think you need a 500.00 motor to compete in an OPEN class, and you are so wrong!!!!,
Bring your TG to the Open wheel race and when its over you can tell me how you took a knife to a gun fight,,
OK QUIZ TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
whats the 1st thing you need to go fast?
A-- a 500.00 motor
B-- a TG motor that has the rotary carbs switched?
C--20 sets of tires?
D--n all of the above?
Man and i have been such a good boy all yr, lol

[kerstetter]

Never said I needed a murnan thats just what I would buy if I ever decide to run open in limited there is no choice and yes they are rotary carb engines but I have slide carbs so whats it matter. You worked Up yet..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ok, here is where the education now starts,
1st of all you do not need a Murnan Modified motor to compete, Mike Schell uses RBMODS and he is no faster than i am or anyone else, I ran a USED TZ 3 port all summer that is 3 years old and i was just as fast as anybody, so your "theory" of needeing a Modified motor is unfounded, I am also going to run a 159.00 Novarossi TS1 which will be MORE than competitive on a weekly basis, And if you bought 2 TG's for 184. i bet they were the Rotary carbs, weren't they? So your "i bought 2 motors for $184" is bull Chit then isn't it?
I am not saying the limited class is a bad thing, i am saying that IMO all it really did was deplete classes,
All you small minded pinheads think you need a 500.00 motor to compete in an OPEN class, and you are so wrong!!!!,
Bring your TG to the Open wheel race and when its over you can tell me how you took a knife to a gun fight,,
OK QUIZ TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
whats the 1st thing you need to go fast?
A-- a 500.00 motor
B-- a TG motor that has the rotary carbs switched?
C--20 sets of tires?
D--n all of the above?
Man and i have been such a good boy all yr, lol

[microracer25]

What's everyone's opinion about how a limited motor would keep up with the open cars at say, the open wheel race at Bumps when the track gets "rubber down"?

[Rcer19]

well what it matters is your trying to say that a limited is cheaper and it is not, if you would have bought a 'race ready' tg, the price is higher,
no you are not working on me, lol
bottom line is, some guys get it and some do not, and we know which 1 you are, lol
also how about the limited guys double dipping in practice? guess that does not happen though

[kipp]

i think the problem with limited and open sprints running together is contact. if you come off the corner with a rody 5 port and the guy in front of you has a tg, there is a way better chance your going to get into the back of him. if the limited sprint is faster through the corner then a open sprint then there is another chance for contact. just mt opinion, let me have it nick!!

[Rcer19]

you are right, but then the guy with the limited wants to ball when he gets hit from behind,
Just like practice, you have guys in limited going out in the Open practice and getting in the way, when an open is trying to get dialed in, is that right??? HELL NO, but it happens, you guys would have a fit if an open car came out in limited practice, You know that when you see an open car in practice you try your damndest to "outrun" him,
If you wanna run open, MAN UP !!!! don't pretend or kid yourself into thinking your all that and a bag of cookies by running a limited in Open,

[JAC9]

I have to agree with Nick here I do not think a modified engine is what you need to compete in most cases. Most of you on here are stating that the limited classes are almost as fast. And I also agree with that statement. So if this is the case just buy a 180 dollar open motor and work on setup to get it through the corners.

However back to the topic at hand I would have to disagree with putting a bigger wing on the open cars. Personally I like the idea of putting a smaller wing on the limited cars.

But on another note last winter at the freeze the fastest car of all the sprint classes was a wingless!!LOL

[Rcer19]

ok, i have a question for the limited guys,
when you go race, what is your objective? what are you trying to do?

[berwicknitro]

OK, I wasn't gonna get into this, but it looks like fun.. I have to agree with Nick, when he say's it split the classes up, and all the classes suffered in car count due to this.. As far as the cost of open engines go, there's alway's great deals on open engines for less money than a new or lightly used TG sells for.. I rarely buy a new engine, when I can get a used one that was barely ran for ALOT LESS than a new TG sells for. What about the cost of lightweight components that alot of the limited guys run? Not needed to run open..

[andy phelps]

nick, i go to have fun:D. i like the limited class. i would run the open class but not with a tg.

andy

[kerstetter]

Your tyring to go as many laps as you can possible go why what are you trying to do lol :D ok, i have a question for the limited guys,
when you go race, what is your objective? what are you trying to do?

[LUKE SLABONIK]

ok, i have a question for the limited guys,
when you go race, what is your objective? what are you trying to do?
goal is to use every inch of the track including the walls to get my money's worth:ha:

[Rob Cutman]

My point exactly why run 2 classes and dilute the racers if there is no real speed difference in the cars. Give the open cars an aero advantage. See the following rules for sprint cars at the Grove

Williams Grove 358 top wing rules:FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]
2. Top Wing – Maximum size to be 16 square feet, must be one piece.

Williams Grove 410 top wing rules:

a) Center Foil maximum size of 25 square feet with a maximum width of 60 inches.

For the record Im not picking on Greg, just quoting his post since he began the thread and I am only trying to address the original topic. While I certainly am open to the discussion here I just dont see any facts to support those who are saying there is no real speed difference in the cars. I agree you may be able to look at certain results or some tracks and draw that conclusion but when viewed in the big picture I am just not seeing it. Now I havent gone and looked at all the results from all of the local tracks each week but I did look at the PA Tour races from this year to see what the facts were.

In looking at the top two finishers in both classes at all 5 tour events the open sprint cars averaged 2.1 laps more than the limited cars. The individual differences were 4.5 laps at Lake Ariel, 3 laps at the mill, 1.5 laps at JRC, 1 lap at Bumps and .5 Laps at Staubs. At last years Open Wheel Race at C&S the difference was 3 laps as well. I think this shows that there is in fact a substantial difference between the classes when you look at the situation as a whole. From my standpoint I just dont see a need to change a National set of Rules in an attempt to increase this gap at a few tracks.

As I said in my previous post the goal of the limited class was to give racers a class where they can run a stock un modded motor and know that everyone else in the class is running the same motor, or supposed to be anyway. The goal wasn't to insure any difference in lap times or even cost of racing the class. Obviously some people, myself included assumed slower lap times and less cost could be by products of these rules they were not the motivation for them. The cost issue is certainly up for debate but I think these results show that on average the speed difference is there.

As someone else stated the wingless cars outran the winged cars at the freeze this year so Im not sure we could safely assume that giving the open cars a bigger wing would necessarily make them faster. Im sure it would in some cases but I dont think its a given especailly at bumps and staubs where the bite is usually so high.

The discussion seems to be hinging around when these classes are run together. I assume that is a scenario where there are only a few of each cars in a class and they are combined in the same heats and or main. If that is the case than I certainly see no reason to change the rules to just to deal with this scenario. If you are referring to a guy running a limited car in the open class that is kind of irrelevent. A guy running a limited car in open is really just a guy running open with a TG. I dont know how you change that as there is no minimum HP or motor rating for the open class.

Maybe what Breckenridge suggested might make more sense as far as limiting the classes for the local races. That is something for the track owners and race directors to determine if that would better suit their situation. As I have told several track owners and series directors the rules are for all the classes but you need to pick the classes that best suit your racers needs.

Regarding the other issues brought up, all I really know is Nick just volunteered to be the PRACTICE POLICE at the Open Wheel Race. :D

Respectfully,
Rob Cutman

[Irvinator]

Can I have your used TZ 3 port when your done with it. If possible, I would like to run it at the open wheel race. lol.

I enjoy running the same car at the big races in limited and open; because, I have less time sitting around and get to race more. All the while spending money on 1 car instead of 2 or 3. Plus I get more practice and the race promoters don't mind taking in the extra money from the 2nd entry fee. It all comes back to the money. If you want to keep the hobby growing, you need more people, more entries, more car kits sold, more broken parts, more used cars for sale on E-bay and Jeff Bay, decisions about whether I need this motor or that motor. 2 TGS and a Novarossi TS1 just sold during this thread. One used TZ 3 port was given away. Lets keep this auction going. Whatever it takes to keep the doors open on the the best r/c dirt tracks and biggest r/c tour in the U.S.. PA dirt tracks & the PA Nitro tour.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ok, here is where the education now starts,
1st of all you do not need a Murnan Modified motor to compete, Mike Schell uses RBMODS and he is no faster than i am or anyone else, I ran a USED TZ 3 port all summer that is 3 years old and i was just as fast as anybody, so your "theory" of needeing a Modified motor is unfounded, I am also going to run a 159.00 Novarossi TS1 which will be MORE than competitive on a weekly basis, And if you bought 2 TG's for 184. i bet they were the Rotary carbs, weren't they? So your "i bought 2 motors for $184" is bull Chit then isn't it?
I am not saying the limited class is a bad thing, i am saying that IMO all it really did was deplete classes,
All you small minded pinheads think you need a 500.00 motor to compete in an OPEN class, and you are so wrong!!!!,
Bring your TG to the Open wheel race and when its over you can tell me how you took a knife to a gun fight,,
OK QUIZ TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
whats the 1st thing you need to go fast?
A-- a 500.00 motor
B-- a TG motor that has the rotary carbs switched?
C--20 sets of tires?
D--n all of the above?
Man and i have been such a good boy all yr, lol

[signman501]

I understand that the wing must be max size of 6x6, but can you run a smaller wing?

[brockh]

more used cars for sale on E-bay and Jeff Bay,
i don't care who you are, that is some funny sheet right there

[rj14]

It all goes back to the saying that slow is fast. And smooth beats erratic and balistic!

you are neither, smooth nor balistic!!!!

That is not true......just ask Perry how smooth I am.

[Smokinnitro]

Don't take this the wrong way.....but, are you mad that you spent $400 on an open motor only to get beat by a car w/ a TG?

What difference does it make? If there isn't enough cars for a limited field, you are in the same situation......

The limited class has brought new racers into sprints and lm's. There are probably a half dozen racers or more whom ran only one car. Now w/ the limiteds they have gone to racing multiple cars. How does this really hurt any of the classes?


For one thing I did not spend and would not spend $400 on any motor. You are missing the point. You dont run most of the classes you insist to comment on.

All of the open motors I own where $50 less than a TG. I do not run lighten flywheels, lightened chassis.

I dont want to change the Limited cars.

CW now makes a 7x7 wing. Easy open the wing rule.

[bumps and jumps rc]

i don't care who you are, that is some funny sheet right there

Funniest thing I have read on here in quite a while - Dam still lauhging

[Todd Putnam]

i don't care who you are, that is some funny sheet right there

That is funny! Cisney sure has a lot of equipment.

Hey Chris, if you are out of stock on something, who do you call first - a distributor or Jeff? lol

[rj14]

For one thing I did not spend and would not spend $400 on any motor. You are missing the point. You dont run most of the classes you insist to comment on.

Not on a regular basis....... BUT I have run the limited classes in the past. So I am not completely talking out of my ass.

[Rob Cutman]

Can someone tell me what the scenario is where the cars are running "mixed together". If the cars are running as two different classes but running at the same time I dont see why it matters if they are different speeds or not, in fact it is probably better if they are closer. If it is a case where the limited guys are just told they have to run open due to lack of cars than you have guys running the same class with different setups, all of which are perfectly legal.

[rj14]

I dont want to change the Limited cars.

CW now makes a 7x7 wing. Easy open the wing rule.


Crutch....I think if you re-read Rob's post you will see he has pretty much summed it all up. And I totally agree w/ his logic. WHY change a National Rule based on a couple of local tracks????

[bumps and jumps rc]

Last year - it was the other way around 2 open guys in limited, some people got a little upset. Is there a way to score them separate and run them in together? - I guess that is one for Doug.

[Rcer19]

Ben, i would be more than happy to let you use that motor,
Rob- i will gladly be the practice police if i could hand out the penaltys!!!!!!!!!!
Anyway, there are always some good ponits and bad points either way, Yes i have raced and won in the Limited class, even been called a cherry picker, but i accept that, Guess you could compare the limited class to Cup racing, "Bush whackers", lol
Guess i am just old school and stubborn in my thinking sometimes, like in the day when we ran electric classes, stock and mod, i never saw anyone run a stock motor in the mod class, maybe you might have put in a 19turn compared to someones 8 turn but you still ran a mod motor in the mod class,like i said, old and stubborn, lol

And Kerstetter--- now to you, The point to my quiz was to see who actually gets it,
Anyone with racing knowledge and common sense knows that in order to be fast your car needs to HANDLE in the CORNERS, anyone can go fast in a straight line, just ask henry,
so it does not matter what motor or how expensive it is, if your car does not HANDLE your not going to be competitive, PERIOD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you can take a medicore driver and put him in a car that handles and he will be better because of it,
Now i am done on this topic and going back to "TRYING" to be a good boy, see everyone at the Big SHow, lol

[Rob Cutman]

Last year - it was the other way around 2 open guys in limited, some people got a little upset. Is there a way to score them separate and run them in together? - I guess that is one for Doug.

You dont score them separate. I know I have been to races where there were say 3 limiteds and 3 opens and rather than run 2 heats they just put them in the same heat so they got to run with more cars. We've even done Elec sprints with nitro sprints on occasion down here. I should have said they are scored together but the results are kept separate. The guy who wins limited was just the highest finsihing limited car.

[brockh]

You dont score them separate. I know I have been to races where there were say 3 limiteds and 3 opens and rather than run 2 heats they just put them in the same heat so they got to run with more cars. We've even done Elec sprints with nitro sprints on occasion down here. I should have said they are scored together but the results are kept separate. The guy who wins limited was just the highest finsihing limited car.
what he is talking about is having to separate them for points...if you have a set of guys that want to run limited sprints and a set of guys that want to run open for points then one day only 2 opens show up, they can run with the limited but get credited with open points and not affect limited points

[Rob Cutman]

Guess i am just old school and stubborn in my thinking sometimes, like in the day when we ran electric classes, stock and mod, i never saw anyone run a stock motor in the mod class, maybe you might have put in a 19turn compared to someones 8 turn but you still ran a mod motor in the mod class,like i said, old and stubborn, lol



If im reading this correctly you are implying that the OS 12TG is some kind of "stock" motor. There is nothing that spells out or separates any of the nitro motors as stock, mod or anything else. The OS 12TG is a "SPEC" motor not a "Stock" motor. The Open class rules allow any .12 nitro motor, I cant imagine you are saying that a TG or any other motor for that matter should not be legal because they are too slow or to cheap. If im not reading that correclty than forget I said anything, lol.

I am not trying to drag this on or belabor the point I am honestly just trying to understand where the problem lies? I've asked this question 3 times now and no one seems to be able to give me an answer!

[Rob Cutman]

what he is talking about is having to separate them for points...if you have a set of guys that want to run limited sprints and a set of guys that want to run open for points then one day only 2 opens show up, they can run with the limited but get credited with open points and not affect limited points

That is exactly what I was referring to and what we have done down here at times as well.

I guess my question is in that unfortunate scenario wouldnt it be better for everyone if the cars ran similar lap times as opposed to 2 cars out there being 3 tenths faster than the rest of the field? And again if this is the scenario that Greg was referring to in his opening post I certainly cant see a reason to change the rules just for this circumstance.

[Breckenridge]

I am not sure what the point of running a bigger wing on the open cars would be. Is that so in addition to running over the limited cars on the straights, they could then run over them in the turns too? lol

The big problem is as long as a track owner says he is going to run 10 classes, there will always be a couple classes where only 2 or 3 cars show up. It becomes frustrating to the racers who work on their cars all week, pack up their stuff, drive to the track....only to find out they are only racing against two other cars. So they either find another class that's more popular or they don't show up as much or at all.

[kipp]

I am not trying to drag this on or belabor the point I am honestly just trying to understand where the problem lies? I've asked this question 3 times now and no one seems to be able to give me an answer!

there really is no problem unless the guy running the TG in the open class complains when he gets run over because of the difference in accelleration on the straights.

i know todd putnam has stomped the nitro edm class a few times with a tg but i think it may have had a bigger carb?

[Todd Putnam]

There has been alot of talk in our area about the limited sprints Vs the Open sprints.
People feel there is not enough seperation in the speeds between these 2 classes. When the classes are mixed the racing suffers. Limited car are faster thru the corners but slower down the straights where the Opens catch them. Maybe the Opens should be allowed to run a bigger wing. I'm not sure what the answer. Please voice your opinion

I have only run nitro sprints since last year, and only at the WDRA Summer Nats, OW and (2) the PA Nitro Tour tracks - so by no means have I witnesssed it all - but I have raced both Limited and Open classes.

I really like and believe in the Limited class, it's concept and it's success. Great place for racers to place their focus on chassis and driving to go faster, which plays a much bigger role in going faster than motors do.

I like the Open classes as well - but wouldn't suggest it unless you have really maximized your chassis and driving programs. I've said it before, you can't fire a cannon from a canoe.

Smokinnitro asked for our opinions:
My opinion is that I like the two classes as they are. The only event where I ran both my Limited Sprint and my Open Sprint (PA Tour @ Bumps) I was able to TQ and Win both classes. Using that day for my baseline, (cars/setup/driver being as close as possible) my Limited car was about 2 laps slower than my Open car. If that isn't enough of a difference - and I am not saying it is or isn't - my opinion would be to slow down the limited cars as it will be easier to do. It would also make them more driveable for the masses.

Granted, I only get to run my nitro sprints 3-4 times a year, so by no means should I be the barometer of what to do. I just was reading this and thought I'd give my opinion. :thumbsup:

[Todd Putnam]

there really is no problem unless the guy running the TG in the open class complains when he gets run over because of the difference in accelleration on the straights.

i know todd putnam has stomped the nitro edm class a few times with a tg but i think it may have had a bigger carb?

A couple of times it was with a TG, and one race I did put "the 4 barrel" on it.

Old, washed-up no talent guys like us gotta be careful when it comes to horsepower, Kippy - too much tends to get us in trouble -

[irocz69]

I am not sure what the point of running a bigger wing on the open cars would be. Is that so in addition to running over the limited cars on the straights, they could then run over them in the turns too? lol

The big problem is as long as a track owner says he is going to run 10 classes, there will always be a couple classes where only 2 or 3 cars show up. It becomes frustrating to the racers who work on their cars all week, pack up their stuff, drive to the track....only to find out they are only racing against two other cars. So they either find another class that's more popular or they don't show up as much or at all.

Brian, I think what he's trying to say is , if an open car runs a bigger wing & goes faster then they already do, then the guys w/the TG motors wont run w/the opens ! Just my observation !

GO FAST TURN LEFT ! Keith S.

[Smokinnitro]

Not on a regular basis....... BUT I have run the limited classes in the past. So I am not completely talking out of my ass.


you always are talking out your ass you show up at 5 to 6 races a year and yet you seem to think your are all knowing. I'm getting a little tired of you running your mouth about rules for classes you don't run.

[Smokinnitro]

there really is no problem unless the guy running the TG in the open class complains when he gets run over because of the difference in accelleration on the straights.

i know todd putnam has stomped the nitro edm class a few times with a tg but i think it may have had a bigger carb?



MY EXACT POINT.

Also if you have 2 classes running the same amout of laps why run 2 classes

[Smokinnitro]

Brian, I think what he's trying to say is , if an open car runs a bigger wing & goes faster then they already do, then the guys w/the TG motors wont run w/the opens ! Just my observation !

GO FAST TURN LEFT ! Keith S.


You are starting to get it!!!!!!:thumbsup:

[solly]

people with guns in their avatars are scary

[Todd Putnam]

people with guns in their avatars are scary

What's worse, a gun or a light saber?

[Mr. T-4T]

people with guns in their avatars are scary I'm far from scared but your avatar shows me you live in a glass house.

[solly]

I'm far from scared but your avatar shows me you live in a glass house.

oh you must have been by my place. you should have stopped to say hello, its easy to tell if im home.

[Todd Putnam]

oh you must have been by my place. you should have stopped to say hello, its easy to tell if im home.

...Many times the lights are on, but noooooobody's home....

[bumps and jumps rc]

I don't know I am thinking he might be the smartest one here.
He was the first one to sign up and the first one to pay.
True story.

[RacerX11]

What's worse, a gun or a light saber?

Well Light sabers are for a more civilized age.

[Smokinnitro]

I don't know I am thinking he might be the smartest one here.
He was the first one to sign up and the first one to pay.
True story.

Not true

[rj14]

you always are talking out your ass you show up at 5 to 6 races a year and yet you seem to think your are all knowing. I'm getting a little tired of you running your mouth about rules for classes you don't run.

you're funny...hahahaha!

[smokinfan]

I don't know I am thinking he might be the smartest one here.
He was the first one to sign up and the first one to pay.
True story.

Not true

You are always first when it counts!!!

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/trueneutral/promo-vader.jpg

[solly]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/trueneutral/promo-vader.jpg

this is more you

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm88/solly4444/homevader.jpg

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

LOL. SSshhh... Don't tell anyone. ;) How can I be percieved as the Lord of the Dark Side if photographs like that get out!?!

[rj14]

LOL. SSshhh... Don't tell anyone. ;) How can I not be percieved as the Lord of the Back Side if photographs like that get out!?!


You need to get your perception fixed....

[ctsieber]

You need to get your perception fixed....
he needs more then that

[Rcer19]

"lord of the backside?? " what the hell is going on in here

[rj14]

"lord of the backside?? " what the hell is going on in here



otr humor


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:6096qdIR54elcM:http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z74/IanTheCool/funny-star-wars-image.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z74/IanTheCool/funny-star-wars-image.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.gamespot.com/pages/unions/forums/show_msgs.php%3Ftopic_id%3D26337983%26union_id%3D3 157%26page%3D4&usg=__RynSvtW6JTeQdDqDUGYd5EUvbSo=&h=354&w=312&sz=32&hl=en&start=7&tbnid=6096qdIR54elcM:&tbnh=121&tbnw=107&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnothing%2Bto%2Bsee%2Bhere%2Bmove%2Bal ong%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den)

[solly]

........

http://www.free-avatars.com/data/media/92/stormtrooper.gif

[rj14]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Ovob_BZwv7KJ1M:http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3036/2696497716_955ed5a58c.jpg%3Fv%3D0 (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3036/2696497716_955ed5a58c.jpg%3Fv%3D0&imgrefurl=http://flickr.com/photos/daviddiazsf/2696497716/&usg=__O600YmvZiEU4WXRkUtZ15WN5Llc=&h=500&w=209&sz=71&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=Ovob_BZwv7KJ1M:&tbnh=130&tbnw=54&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgay%2Bstormtrooper%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3De n)

[solly]

http://www.north45pub.com/wp-content/gallery/random-site-pics/gay-vader-2.jpg

[rj14]

http://www.north45pub.com/wp-content/gallery/random-site-pics/gay-vader-2.jpg

I was told this was from OTR's end of year awards banquet....

[solly]

I was told this was from OTR's end of year awards banquet....

i think this was the championship trophy:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/234/519218636_f50d65b931.jpg?v=0

[dirty one]

maybe this was the one

[dirty one]

otr humor


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:6096qdIR54elcM:http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z74/IanTheCool/funny-star-wars-image.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z74/IanTheCool/funny-star-wars-image.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.gamespot.com/pages/unions/forums/show_msgs.php%3Ftopic_id%3D26337983%26union_id%3D3 157%26page%3D4&usg=__RynSvtW6JTeQdDqDUGYd5EUvbSo=&h=354&w=312&sz=32&hl=en&start=7&tbnid=6096qdIR54elcM:&tbnh=121&tbnw=107&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnothing%2Bto%2Bsee%2Bhere%2Bmove%2Bal ong%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den)

rj maybe you need this around for something to do.

[kipp]

thats just weird man.

[rj14]

thats just weird man.

And you thought it would get better when Dale joined in???

HAHAHA!!!!