side dams on open latemodels

[banksracing20]

I know the sidedams off open latemodel were supposed to make racing closer but seems it killed open latemodel as a whole. They are a handful to drive without it and the racing didnt get closer it just dissapeared. Nobody I know of wants to drive them like that. Im not knocking limited latemodel and if thats what you want to run thats fine. I for one like the speed of open and being able to use all the horsepower the engine had. For people that want to run $160 spec engines thats fine limiteds is the way to go. It seems they took the sidedams off open latemodel and said if you dont like it we dont care. Well thats it I no that sidedams wont be added back tomorrow in dirtoval rules because i posted this and maybe I am the only one that feels this way.

Gary Banks

[tailslide]

I can't speak for the rest of the country, but here in FL, the car count has tripled at the series races since the side dams were taken off. It is easily the most competetive class, and they are crazy fast. Almost to fast. We run them on 3 totally different tracks, and they race good on all of them. Probably 95% of the racers here prefer them without.

[rayhoe1]

i for one and are track in ohio we run them.i seen how the rules go at c&s with jason burns.:thumbsdown:

[maestro]

I know the sidedams off open latemodel were supposed to make racing closer but seems it killed open latemodel as a whole. They are a handful to drive without it and the racing didnt get closer it just dissapeared. Nobody I know of wants to drive them like that. Im not knocking limited latemodel and if thats what you want to run thats fine. I for one like the speed of open and being able to use all the horsepower the engine had. For people that want to run $160 spec engines thats fine limiteds is the way to go. It seems they took the sidedams off open latemodel and said if you dont like it we dont care. Well thats it I no that sidedams wont be added back tomorrow in dirtoval rules because i posted this and maybe I am the only one that feels this way.

Gary Banks

Your definetly not the only one. Problem is this has been beat to death and you see it did nothing. I agree it killed the class. Thats why we quit running oval for awhile. I like the sidedams on any of the cars. But you have people that are still convinced they're just a crutch. All I can say is get a car that handles with a sidedam and a car that handles without a sidedam and see which one's faster. I think the open or outlaw class should have side dams regardless. If you feel a car doesnt need to run a sidedam then dont run them and see how well you do.

[donnie victor]

It seem's we have two type's of racer's in this class. Cabbie's and Pilot's.. LOL. Taxi's with out the dam and Rocket's with them. I for one need the stability it give's the car. I dont care about anything else. :thumbsup:

[Mason]

if you are so bent on running side dams, why not make an edm body. after all they have 2 side dams. ;)

[tailslide]

We are talking 2wd right?

[Jim Ruff]

I have no dog in the 1/8 fight, but ,yet still, have an opinion because I race electric LM. Maybe, now is the time to give a rational look at home made bodies that meet the guide line of resembling the cars that World of Outlaws uses for Open L M. This wiil give LM open guys more traction and the speed they are lookinr for, or allow the door stop wedges (Smitt's) body. Keep in mind that reasonable body rule will need to be written. This statemen is not being made to cause a riot, but to get the Open class racers to think about an alternate choice to side damns. Thanks for your time. Jim Ruff

[rj14]

PA Nitro Tour 05-31-2009



-- Nitro Late Model - A Main --
Pos Car Laps time name
1 7 46 4:03.57 Mike Schell
2 8 44 4:04.18 Jim Fries
3 4 42 4:00.24 Rob Lutz
4 2 42 4:04.19 Mark Blake
5 3 41 4:05.24 Perry Whitmoyer
6 1 30 2:36.65 CJ Funk
7 6 15 1:39.69 Brad Wilson
8 5 11 1:22.85 Brian Strausser


-- 13.5 Late Model - A Main --
Pos Car Laps time name
1 1 44 4:03.94 Steve Salvas
2 2 44 4:04.48 Kenny Fisher
3 6 43 4:02.27 Brock Garis
4 3 43 4:05.18 John Armor
5 4 42 4:00.85 John Bath
6 5 40 4:00.12 Mike Jeffery
7 7 36 3:37.78 Joe Ivo
8 8 27 2:41.06 George Jamieson



-- Limited Latemodel - A Main --
Pos Car Laps time name
1 3 43 4:00.87 CJ Funk
2 2 43 4:02.00 John Armor
3 6 41 4:01.91 Rob Lutz
4 4 40 4:00.49 Jim Fries
5 7 32 3:24.61 Perry Whitmoyer
6 8 14 1:40.11 Rick Davis
7 5 5 0:33.03 Todd Becker
8 1 5 0:35.42 Dale Hartzell

13.5 Latemodel USOWC

Card, Brian 1 1 42 4:05.325 5.641 5.704 5.742 5.788 6
Tucker, Frank 2 3 41 4:01.108 5.651 5.672 5.689 5.727 1
Gitchell, Mike 3 7 41 4:03.816 5.613 2.708 5.687 5.718 5.762Bump
Duffy, Alan 4 4 41 4:05.483 5.680 4.375 5.725 5.755 5.804 2
Bess, Steve 5 5 40 4:04.491 5.756 5.793 5.821 5.871 5
Dyer, Brad 6 8 40 4:05.043 5.751 0.552 5.832 5.872 5.923Bump
St. Clair, Jeff 7 6 39 4:01.646 5.781 5.814 5.840 5.893 3
Burdette, Jason 8 2 38

Limited Latemodel USOWC


Utt, Jody 1 2 44 4:04.718 5.373 5.392 5.403 5.438 4
Kiser, David 2 6 43 4:01.164 5.282 5.317 5.340 5.361 1
Gitchell, Mike 3 7 43 4:03.808 5.223 2.644 5.274 5.315 5.366Bump
Heddleson, Dan 4 8 43 4:08.039 5.320 6.875 5.328 5.354 5.392Bump
Fries, Jim 5 1 43 4:09.883 5.456 8.719 5.494 5.514 5.551 6
Pennell, Taylor 6 5 42 4:05.094 5.296 5.339 5.386 5.430 5
Ottinger, Mike 7 3 40 4:00.121 5.422 5.451 5.495 5.555 3
Brackett, Stan 8 4 39 4:01.144 5.531 5.560 5.595 5.647 2

Open Latemodel USOWC

Hartzell, Dale 1 8 44 4:04.336 5.308 5.348 5.383 5.417Bump
Utt, Jody 2 7 43 4:01.715 5.196 5.227 5.261 5.320Bump
Schell, Mike 3 6 43 4:02.616 5.381 0.901 5.407 5.434 5.483 4
Jones, Lee 4 1 43 4:03.645 5.337 1.930 5.385 5.405 5.445 6
Dean, Nathan 5 5 42 4:02.978 5.256 5.309 5.358 5.404 5
Ellerbusch, Kip 6 4 40 4:04.409 5.307 5.370 5.431 5.535 3
Fries, Jim 7 2 40 4:05.036 5.442 0.627 5.543 5.609 5.735 2
Fischer, Billy 8 3 23 2:02.507 5.104 5.169 5.210 5.317 1

The above results are from the 2 fastest and longest tracks so far since the introduction of the new rules package. I threw in the 13.5's foe another comparison.

The racing is close and competetive.ARE YOU OPEN LATEMODEL GUYS GETTING YOUR FEELINGS HURT?!?!?!?


Is this all coming up because you guys feel that there should be a larger gap performance wise between the classes? Since the beginning of the latemodels in the last 3 years, the whole side dam issue was a slippery slope. How many of you guys complaining or bringing this up, ran in the late 80's early 90's? Do you remember the wedges w/ a license plate on the sides of them?Learn to use the power AFTER getting the car to drive.

What happens if you don't? (see answer below)


YOU COME ON TO DIRTOVAL.COM AND ASK TO CONSIDER GIVING YOU A CRUTCH!

I am not flaming anybody directly, these are all opinions. And you are duely entiteled to them, as am I. But this is how this thread is coming across to me]

[wfw94]

if you are so bent on running side dams, why not make an edm body. after all they have 2 side dams. ;)Because no one runs edm, they run floppers, they don't look like edms, but yet they allow them to run a ridiculous looking body, that was never run on a real car. However, side dams were run on late models, we don't want them to look like the cars of today, we want them to haul the mail. Open, imo, should be a body dimension, any spoiler, any motor, let the big dogs eat, RUFF.

[rj14]

Because no one runs edm, they run floppers, they don't look like edms, but yet they allow them to run a ridiculous looking body, that was never run on a real car. However, side dams were run on late models, we don't want them to look like the cars of today, we want them to haul the mail. Open, imo, should be a body dimension, any spoiler, any motor, let the big dogs eat, RUFF.


when was the last time you ran an edm body??? Only a hanfull of them flop, and only on indoor short tracks! learn before you speak please.

I am the only person who is dumb enough to try and run a "flopper" body on an outdoor track in Mod EDM trim.

Ask me how well it works??????

It doesn't, the body gets braced stiff so it doesn't move!!!!

[donnie victor]

Stability of these cars at the speeds they can run (if you let them) is very important. When I see a side dam on a race car, I know it will be hauling the mail... Dont get me wrong I enjoy racing without a dam also. My Taxi is fun to drive. But I like racing my Rocketship with a dam alot more... LOL. To each his own.... :thumbsup: :revs: :greenflag:

[wfw94]

when was the last time you ran an edm body??? Only a hanfull of them flop, and only on indoor short tracks! learn before you speak please.

I am the only person who is dumb enough to try and run a "flopper" body on an outdoor track in Mod EDM trim.

Ask me how well it works??????

It doesn't, the body gets braced stiff so it doesn't move!!!!
Speaking from my experience, as you can see I am from the south, the only time we see them is indoors, high bite. I thought Solly got rid of you,LOL.

[rj14]

Speaking from my experience, as you can see I am from the south, the only time we see them is indoors, high bite. I thought Solly got rid of you,LOL.

nope I am like the Highlander......keep on coming back! LOL!

[Rob Cutman]

I know the sidedams off open latemodel were supposed to make racing closer but seems it killed open latemodel as a whole. They are a handful to drive without it and the racing didnt get closer it just dissapeared. Nobody I know of wants to drive them like that. Im not knocking limited latemodel and if thats what you want to run thats fine. I for one like the speed of open and being able to use all the horsepower the engine had. For people that want to run $160 spec engines thats fine limiteds is the way to go. It seems they took the sidedams off open latemodel and said if you dont like it we dont care. Well thats it I no that sidedams wont be added back tomorrow in dirtoval rules because i posted this and maybe I am the only one that feels this way.

Gary Banks

Gary,
Of all of this I am most offended by the insinuation that "we don't care". If I did not care we never would have bothered to make rules to begin with. Unlike most people on this forum my livlihood depends on people showing up at the track to race so yes, I do care. As you can see from some of the other posts on there this rules package is working just fine in a lot of places.

These National rules are exactly that "national rules" they are the best compromise we could come up with for what would work across the country not just what suits the racers in Wilson, NC. The Open car counts were struggling here before this particular rules package ever came out and every class is down this year at Wilson and C&S. The 1st series race this year had 35 entries when the same race last year had over 100. Sorry but those 65 guys didnt stay home because they couldnt run a side dam. With car counts going up in Florida and the PA Nitro Tour getting huge car counts this year with the same rules package I have a hard time thinking this one rule is the problem around here.

As I have stated in the past, It really is this simple. These rules are a "SUGGESTION" and are not and have never been forced on any track owner or series director EVER. If they are using them that is their choice. If they don't work for your track than DON'T USE THEM!

[Rob Cutman]

I have no dog in the 1/8 fight, but ,yet still, have an opinion because I race electric LM. Maybe, now is the time to give a rational look at home made bodies that meet the guide line of resembling the cars that World of Outlaws uses for Open L M. This wiil give LM open guys more traction and the speed they are lookinr for, or allow the door stop wedges (Smitt's) body. Keep in mind that reasonable body rule will need to be written. This statemen is not being made to cause a riot, but to get the Open class racers to think about an alternate choice to side damns. Thanks for your time. Jim Ruff

Jim,

There is absolutely no need to have homemade latemodel bodies or the tech headaches that would come with them. I understand what you are saying but that would be a whole other can of worms. The current latemodel rules got to the point they are so that racers could have a class where they can simply mount the body and go. No cutting folding or handmaking the latest body of the week, which is what the EDM's turned in to.

Rob

[wfw94]

PA Nitro Tour 05-31-2009



-- Nitro Late Model - A Main --
Pos Car Laps time name
1 7 46 4:03.57 Mike Schell
2 8 44 4:04.18 Jim Fries
3 4 42 4:00.24 Rob Lutz
4 2 42 4:04.19 Mark Blake
5 3 41 4:05.24 Perry Whitmoyer
6 1 30 2:36.65 CJ Funk
7 6 15 1:39.69 Brad Wilson
8 5 11 1:22.85 Brian Strausser


-- 13.5 Late Model - A Main --
Pos Car Laps time name
1 1 44 4:03.94 Steve Salvas
2 2 44 4:04.48 Kenny Fisher
3 6 43 4:02.27 Brock Garis
4 3 43 4:05.18 John Armor
5 4 42 4:00.85 John Bath
6 5 40 4:00.12 Mike Jeffery
7 7 36 3:37.78 Joe Ivo
8 8 27 2:41.06 George Jamieson



-- Limited Latemodel - A Main --
Pos Car Laps time name
1 3 43 4:00.87 CJ Funk
2 2 43 4:02.00 John Armor
3 6 41 4:01.91 Rob Lutz
4 4 40 4:00.49 Jim Fries
5 7 32 3:24.61 Perry Whitmoyer
6 8 14 1:40.11 Rick Davis
7 5 5 0:33.03 Todd Becker
8 1 5 0:35.42 Dale Hartzell

13.5 Latemodel USOWC

Card, Brian 1 1 42 4:05.325 5.641 5.704 5.742 5.788 6
Tucker, Frank 2 3 41 4:01.108 5.651 5.672 5.689 5.727 1
Gitchell, Mike 3 7 41 4:03.816 5.613 2.708 5.687 5.718 5.762Bump
Duffy, Alan 4 4 41 4:05.483 5.680 4.375 5.725 5.755 5.804 2
Bess, Steve 5 5 40 4:04.491 5.756 5.793 5.821 5.871 5
Dyer, Brad 6 8 40 4:05.043 5.751 0.552 5.832 5.872 5.923Bump
St. Clair, Jeff 7 6 39 4:01.646 5.781 5.814 5.840 5.893 3
Burdette, Jason 8 2 38

Limited Latemodel USOWC


Utt, Jody 1 2 44 4:04.718 5.373 5.392 5.403 5.438 4
Kiser, David 2 6 43 4:01.164 5.282 5.317 5.340 5.361 1
Gitchell, Mike 3 7 43 4:03.808 5.223 2.644 5.274 5.315 5.366Bump
Heddleson, Dan 4 8 43 4:08.039 5.320 6.875 5.328 5.354 5.392Bump
Fries, Jim 5 1 43 4:09.883 5.456 8.719 5.494 5.514 5.551 6
Pennell, Taylor 6 5 42 4:05.094 5.296 5.339 5.386 5.430 5
Ottinger, Mike 7 3 40 4:00.121 5.422 5.451 5.495 5.555 3
Brackett, Stan 8 4 39 4:01.144 5.531 5.560 5.595 5.647 2

Open Latemodel USOWC

Hartzell, Dale 1 8 44 4:04.336 5.308 5.348 5.383 5.417Bump
Utt, Jody 2 7 43 4:01.715 5.196 5.227 5.261 5.320Bump
Schell, Mike 3 6 43 4:02.616 5.381 0.901 5.407 5.434 5.483 4
Jones, Lee 4 1 43 4:03.645 5.337 1.930 5.385 5.405 5.445 6
Dean, Nathan 5 5 42 4:02.978 5.256 5.309 5.358 5.404 5
Ellerbusch, Kip 6 4 40 4:04.409 5.307 5.370 5.431 5.535 3
Fries, Jim 7 2 40 4:05.036 5.442 0.627 5.543 5.609 5.735 2
Fischer, Billy 8 3 23 2:02.507 5.104 5.169 5.210 5.317 1

The above results are from the 2 fastest and longest tracks so far since the introduction of the new rules package. I threw in the 13.5's foe another comparison.

The racing is close and competetive.ARE YOU OPEN LATEMODEL GUYS GETTING YOUR FEELINGS HURT?!?!?!?


Is this all coming up because you guys feel that there should be a larger gap performance wise between the classes? Since the beginning of the latemodels in the last 3 years, the whole side dam issue was a slippery slope. How many of you guys complaining or bringing this up, ran in the late 80's early 90's? Do you remember the wedges w/ a license plate on the sides of them?Learn to use the power AFTER getting the car to drive.

What happens if you don't? (see answer below)


YOU COME ON TO DIRTOVAL.COM AND ASK TO CONSIDER GIVING YOU A CRUTCH!

I am not flaming anybody directly, these are all opinions. And you are duely entiteled to them, as am I. But this is how this thread is coming across to me]We just want to run side dams, cause they are cool and fast. Why couldn't this class be added back. I know I quit racing oval for a year after they dropped it.

[Rob Cutman]

We just want to run side dams, cause they are cool and fast. Why couldn't this class be added back. I know I quit racing oval for a year after they dropped it.

Don,
This rule change just went in to effect for this year. The side dams were allowed all last year but I only remember seeing you a few times unfortunately. I also noticed that you and lance both chose to run the non sidedam 1/8th class this weekend at Wilson?? Not pickin, you know I like you guys, just curious.

Rob

[wfw94]

Don,
This rule change just went in to effect for this year. The side dams were allowed all last year but I only remember seeing you a few times unfortunately. I also noticed that you and lance both chose to run the non sidedam 1/8th class this weekend at Wilson?? Not pickin, you know I like you guys, just curious.

RobHi Rob, we started back in LL8m, that is the class that runs most on a local basis @ C&S. Lance ran Open @ Wilson, he didn't make any quali's, he ran second in the main without any track time and a little help from Stan falling out. It was the first time we had run that car, had a few teething problems.I don't want this to be a big argument, but it always seems that way.I really liked the Open side dam class, I guess it appealed to me more, but you are right that isn't keeping people away from the track.I would like to think that it would bring some people back, but other classes are slim also. It is fun to talk about though and see the different views, without the really negative stuff. Would you care to squash the theory of the cars being just as fast without the sidedams, or is that better left for The King.

[irocz69]

Jim,

There is absolutely no need to have homemade latemodel bodies or the tech headaches that would come with them. I understand what you are saying but that would be a whole other can of worms. The current latemodel rules got to the point they are so that racers could have a class where they can simply mount the body and go. No cutting folding or handmaking the latest body of the week, which is what the EDM's turned in to.

Rob
Rob, I understand what the National Rules were put into place for & agree that "Handmade" latemodel bodies would cause problems just like the EDM's, but since you brought up the EDM's ! LOL!

Your rules package seems to be working for most, but w/out opening up the EDM can of worms, I will talk to you about this @ the Tour race if your coming.

My point being here is "Alot" of us here in Central Pa. have seen a decrease in EDM's just like some have seen w/the Latemodels because of the rules. They are what they are & if you really have a passion for this hobby, like most of us do, then you will make the neccessary "Adjustments" w/your chassis & suspention to be competitive.

GO FAST TURN LEFT ! Keith S.

[Rob Cutman]

Hi Rob, we started back in LL8m, that is the class that runs most on a local basis @ C&S. Lance ran Open @ Wilson, he didn't make any quali's, he ran second in the main without any track time and a little help from Stan falling out. It was the first time we had run that car, had a few teething problems.I don't want this to be a big argument, but it always seems that way.I really liked the Open side dam class, I guess it appealed to me more, but you are right that isn't keeping people away from the track.I would like to think that it would bring some people back, but other classes are slim also. It is fun to talk about though and see the different views, without the really negative stuff. Would you care to squash the theory of the cars being just as fast without the sidedams, or is that better left for The King.


I've never said or even suggested that they were just as fast without the sidedams.

[Rob Cutman]

Rob, I understand what the National Rules were put into place for & agree that "Handmade" latemodel bodies would cause problems just like the EDM's, but since you brought up the EDM's ! LOL!

Your rules package seems to be working for most, but w/out opening up the EDM can of worms, I will talk to you about this @ the Tour race if your coming.

My point being here is "Alot" of us here in Central Pa. have seen a decrease in EDM's just like some have seen w/the Latemodels because of the rules. They are what they are & if you really have a passion for this hobby, like most of us do, then you will make the neccessary "Adjustments" w/your chassis & suspention to be competitive.

GO FAST TURN LEFT ! Keith S.

I'll be there.

[rj14]

Rob, I understand what the National Rules were put into place for & agree that "Handmade" latemodel bodies would cause problems just like the EDM's, but since you brought up the EDM's ! LOL!

Your rules package seems to be working for most, but w/out opening up the EDM can of worms, I will talk to you about this @ the Tour race if your coming.

My point being here is "Alot" of us here in Central Pa. have seen a decrease in EDM's just like some have seen w/the Latemodels because of the rules. They are what they are & if you really have a passion for this hobby, like most of us do, then you will make the neccessary "Adjustments" w/your chassis & suspention to be competitive.

GO FAST TURN LEFT ! Keith S.

I'll be there.

Rob-

Did you get my text the other day?

[Todd Putnam]

This is a double-edged sword.

At last year's ECDOS race @ Wilson, I had a BALL running my Open LM with a side dam. Man, that was fast!

Racer #'s have really increased at the series races in FL, PA, etc; with the new DODC rules, but decreased in NC - not sure why that is, the NC tracks are some of the best in the country.

You won't please everyone w/ any rules package, but based on the turnouts at the USOW, FEB. Freeze, PA Nitro Tour, FDOS, etc; the DODC rules have proven to be a huge success that work for the majority.

I personally would rather race with side dams, but not if it means not racing with the majority -

I can see both sides - for what it's worth. :thumbsup:

[Mason]

I'm pretty sure the largest reason any car counts are down are all based on expendable cash. I know here the unemployment rate was above 12.2% at last check. Every place is different with their economy. Around here it is/was a lot of construction for those retirees moving down. Which since those folks are also on a tight budget has really hit restaurant alley here. Some places are just closed, some are bulldozed. One can only imagine how the scene is around detroit and the cities their satellite plants are in. I'm sure the construction bust has slowed down the wood/furniture action up that way in NC. It's all one big cycle.
Fortunately, the local racing and the Series events have weathered better than I expected. That may be due in part to how we run things but who knows..

as always your mileage may vary.

[Smokinnitro]

nope I am like the Highlander......keep on coming back! LOL!

Unfortunate for us

[jones07racing]

Your car was fast because you were pitting in my trailer.....LOL:D

This is a double-edged sword.

At last year's ECDOS race @ Wilson, I had a BALL running my Open LM with a side dam. Man, that was fast!

Racer #'s have really increased at the series races in FL, PA, etc; with the new DODC rules, but decreased in NC - not sure why that is, the NC tracks are some of the best in the country.

You won't please everyone w/ any rules package, but based on the turnouts at the USOW, FEB. Freeze, PA Nitro Tour, FDOS, etc; the DODC rules have proven to be a huge success that work for the majority.

I personally would rather race with side dams, but not if it means not racing with the majority -

I can see both sides - for what it's worth. :thumbsup:

[jones07racing]

I really am not going to comment on this subject.. I am for whatever makes the racing better but if I had to vote I would vote SIDEDAMS all the way.....


Your car was fast because you were pitting in my trailer.....LOL:D

[maestro]

Rob, why you pickin? Just kidding. I really liked running the open car. I hope in the near future C&S will get more opens 1/8 scales. Not a bad run considering the only track time was the main. I guess the sidedams just appeal to me because I remember back in the Dominator days. I really enjoyed watching those cars as a kid. What I get aggrivated about is when people that have no clue what they're talking about get on here and just say "oh thats just a crutch" It's not a crutch. It is there to make a fast car even faster. For some of us we like the speed. To me the cars without sidedams just roll though a corner and then drag race down the straightaway. I just dont like that. I am for whatever gets car counts up, I would like to run 1/10 open again but they just dont do it for me anymore. I guess there should be more of a seperation of speed between the classes.



BTW for all the people that say a car without a sidedam will run with a car with one. Why do you think they had a L x H rule. The more lexan the better. Why is that?

[Todd Putnam]

Your car was fast because you were pitting in my trailer.....LOL:D

That could be true, because we were both ballistic that weekend. Wanna sell that magical trailer?!? That was the same weekend your wife fell in love w/ me... LOL

That Friday night, when I was running on the track by myself around midnight, was the most dialed I have EVER had a Nitro car. Only time "Jenna" has ever been on the chip. Good Times! :thumbsup::revs:

[jones07racing]

Yeah I will sell the trailer.. Or we might and can work out alittle deal or trade.. Melissa for the trailer................... That sounds fair to me.... What do you think? LOL




That could be true, because we were both ballistic that weekend. Wanna sell that magical trailer?!? That was the same weekend your wife fell in love w/ me... LOL

That Friday night, when I was running on the track by myself around midnight, was the most dialed I have EVER had a Nitro car. Only time "Jenna" has ever been on the chip. Good Times! :thumbsup::revs:

[Todd Putnam]

I really am not going to comment on this subject.. I am for whatever makes the racing better but if I had to vote I would vote SIDEDAMS all the way.....

Isn't that a comment?!? Just kiddin' ya pal...LOL ;)

[jones07racing]

Ask her for the comment.... LOL You got to love me man...She does..


Isn't that a comment?!? Just kiddin' ya pal...LOL ;)

[Todd Putnam]

Trailer for Melissa?!? Does your trailer cook and clean?

[04Xterra]

What's the point of racing on dirt of you don't want the car to get a little sideways in the corners? Might as well race on asphalt or carpet then.

:stirpot:

[dirty one]

it all comes down to the real look. real late models dont have side dam's. i like it with out the side dam's. it brings out the driver. just like the edm's should go to a more real look.thats all i have to say. just my 2 cents.



dirty one

[jones07racing]

I don't know if the trailer will do all that for you.. Trailer for Melissa?!? Does your trailer cook and clean?

[Todd Putnam]

I don't know if the trailer will do all that for you..

No deal then - I like to eat. LOL

[savageguy81]

lol

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

That is PRICELESS Zac. PRICELESS.

[maestro]

What's the point of racing on dirt of you don't want the car to get a little sideways in the corners? Might as well race on asphalt or carpet then.

:stirpot:


I cant believe you even wasted your time posting this. Just because a car has a sidedam has NOTHING to do with being sideways or not.

[savageguy81]

That is PRICELESS Zac. PRICELESS.
you know i got that picture from genesee speedway's website so thats local for us.:D

[maestro]

it all comes down to the real look. real late models dont have side dam's. i like it with out the side dam's. it brings out the driver. just like the edm's should go to a more real look.thats all i have to say. just my 2 cents.



dirty one


They run real cars with sidedams. This is the car that customworks got there Rocket body from. Why does this car hold so many records?

As far as not having the side dams it brings out the driver thats why I think it killed the class. These are TOY cars they arent real. They dont drive like a real car. So some people do need the "help" of the sidedams. It closes the gap alittle for imperfections in setup. Not everyone has a pro driver to help them or the ability to figure it all out on there own.

30428

[savageguy81]

lol good year is backwords.

[04Xterra]

I cant believe you even wasted your time posting this. Just because a car has a sidedam has NOTHING to do with being sideways or not.

Lance,
Relax I was just stirring the pot a bit. Do you remember me? I raced with you guys in Sumter a few years back.

[maestro]

Yes Adam, I remember you.

[maestro]

lol good year is backwords.


Depends on which side your reading it from.:D I would love to see this car in person one day.

[savageguy81]

im reading it from the left and its back words :D lol

[Dano628]

those pictures are great but they havent run side dams in a long time doesnt really support your argument

[T.Ford14]

Picture or no picture.Side dam or no side dam on the full size cars,the fact of the matter is these are RC cars.If you wanna look just like the real cars then run limited,but if you wanna be fast and enjoy the open latemodel class that I have always enjoyed,then the side dam is the way to go.Thats why it's called open.I hear the argument that it's a money issue and the rule change is to try to make it more affordable.The fact is the 8th scale latemodel class is more expensive to run,they have side dams and they are faster than the limited version and there is alot of people that run that class.Again,hints the name open latemodel.No matter what is said I still will not be convenced that the rule change made any since execpt to kill the open latemodel class and put more attention towards the limited class for some reason.Never really understood the change in the first place but the change is the reason I won't run a DODC track with an open latemodel car anywhere.To me that sucks because I enjoyed the big races and really enjoyed racing my car.But killing one of the best classes out there doesn't make any since to me. Just my two cents.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :beer:

[donnie victor]

The stability they give the car adds to the fun driving these race cars. Race your Taxi's, but give me a Rocketship with a dam on it any day... :thumbsup: :revs: :greenflag:

[savageguy81]

those pictures are great but they havent run side dams in a long time doesnt really support your argument
im not arguing anything i just posted a picture and by the way that pictures was taken in 07 .

[aconsola]

The stability they give the car adds to the fun driving these race cars. Race your Taxi's, but give me a Rocketship with a dam on it any day... :thumbsup: :revs: :greenflag:


Why is it that a side dam is ok, but a wedge body is bad? neither are used on modern 1:1 latemodels, right?

[T.Ford14]

That is correct, but your still beating a dead horse comparing these cars with the full scale cars.It don't matter what is being used the fact is the class was alot more fun with the side dams because it was really fast and better to drive.If the side dams came back I would travel more and run my 10th scale at different tracks but for the meantime i'll just hang out locally and run it where it's fun to me.

[aconsola]

That is correct, but your still beating a dead horse comparing these cars with the full scale cars.

not really. the full scale argument is what was used against wedge bodies in another thread, I'm just pointing out the inconsistency of others arguments.

I actually fully agree with you. :thumbsup: I race RC cars and really don't know or care about 1:1 racing. I'm all for rc-specific designs for RC racing. If you want a scale model build one. If you want to race RC run what works best for RC.

[Todd Putnam]

This has been debated before, and probably will again.

It all boils down to this: There are basically two different approaches to racing, thus two different types of racers-

-1) One wants to constantly push the limits, go as fast as possible and tries to improve every facet of the car...aero, motor, tires, etc; in an effort to achieve this. This takes a lot of devotion and effort. They enjoy seeing all their devotion, effort and attention to detail equate to increased speed.

-2) The other wants racing to be more simplified, slower, less cutting edge. If they take some time off, they can pick up where you left off and not be too far behind, (if at all) as the speed envelope isn't ever really being pushed. This takes a lot less effort.

Neither is right, neither is wrong. Just diffferent. :thumbsup:

(and for the record, I think most of us have been both of the above at one time or another...)

[T.Ford14]

I agree Todd,it just sucks the rules have dictated the change of how people feel about the sport now.I hear alot of opposition about this rule change and I hate that an open class is limited.It's just not an open class anymore.I miss the "true open" aspect of this class,but your right,alot of people have been that way at one point in time.

Aconsola,I wasn't trying to be rude or anything......my bad...it's just that seems to be the argument that alot of people is about the realism of the car and thats why the side dam was removed and to try to make the compition tighter.But it didn't make the compition any better instead it kinda killed the class and guys started moving on to other classes so now it's dying off just the 2wd gas truck class is doing in the offroad world.To say the least it sucks.I just hope one day it goes back to the way it was. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[banksracing20]

Seems like I'm not the only one who wants the sidedams back.

[DJM]

We have been running side dams since 1983 and will never quit regardless of who makes what rules. We run side dams in Richland county Ohio. Its cool to be able to throw your car into a corner that hard, and not spin out.

[lukefresh58]

i beleive there is an easy way to please both parties. how about running a rear side plate. a square peice of lexan mounted to the side of the left rear anywhere between the center of the rear tire and the end of the body. this should stabalize the rear of the car while still providing the realistic look and eleminating the crutch that is the giant lexan sheets commonly known as side dams. like rear spoilers there would have to be maximum heights and widths to keep things consistant.

[T.Ford14]

We have a track here in Tn that still runs the side dams.As a matter of fact there are about 2 or 3 here that never changed to the no side dam rule so I just hang tight around here.Love racing,hate the new rule,gonna stay local for a bit. :D :thumbsup:

[Mason]

To add to Todd's comments.. Unfortunately Racer 1 dissuades Racer 2 from sticking around and which essentially means there's no new blood coming into the hobby and sticking around for long. The rules were implemented to help offset this imbalance and increase longer term participation.

[donnie victor]

To add to Todd's comments.. Unfortunately Racer 1 dissuades Racer 2 from sticking around and which essentially means there's no new blood coming into the hobby and sticking around for long. The rules were implemented to help offset this imbalance and increase longer term participation.Any and all rules should be voted on by the racers that have to abide by them. Then it will work...

[Rob Cutman]

Any and all rules should be voted on by the racers that have to abide by them. Then it will work...


Are you being serious? I think we have seen how productive that approach has been for the 8th scale community.

Maybe I missed it but when was the vote on the Bazooka body taken???

[Rob Cutman]

To add to Todd's comments.. Unfortunately Racer 1 dissuades Racer 2 from sticking around and which essentially means there's no new blood coming into the hobby and sticking around for long. The rules were implemented to help offset this imbalance and increase longer term participation.

A very good point! Apparently all of these people forget that around here no one was moving into the open class before this rule change and many of the open guys were dropping back to limited.

[Rob Cutman]

Seems like I'm not the only one who wants the sidedams back.

Gary,
Perhaps you should have shown your desire to run this class at one of the series races last year prior to the rule change. I dont see your name anywhere on this list and I can only count 6 guys who bothered to run more than two of the races. By the way I showed up and ran the class 4 times last year so no one can accuse me of not supporting the class! I did my part....where were you? As I stated earlier every class is down this year at the two NC tracks. Attendance is up everywhere else so you tell me what the problem is. And by the way the two biggest classes at wilson last week were the two classes that dont use a side dam.


2008 ECDOS Final Points
1/10 2wd open nitro late model
race #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 total points drop
lee jones 180 180 180 175 175 0 890 165
eddie douglas 145 140 165 175 0 175 800 0
rob cutman 140 145 160 165 0 0 610 0
shaun lamm 155 165 0 0 0 170 490 0
arnie fie 0 0 170 145 170 0 485 0
tim mcnutt 150 160 0 155 0 0 465 0
lloyd tiger 170 120 0 0 0 0 290 0
don owens 165 125 0 0 0 0 290 0
mike ottinger 0 130 0 150 0 0 280 0
chris evans 0 170 0 0 0 0 170 0
max flurer 0 0 0 0 170 0 170 0
rusty jarrett 0 0 0 160 0 0 160 0
james stroud 160 0 0 0 0 0 160 0
brian burkhart 0 155 0 0 0 0 155 0
mike bush 0 0 155 0 0 0 155 0
todd putnam 0 150 0 0 0 0 150 0
jody utt 0 0 150 0 0 0 150 0
mike rey 0 0 145 0 0 0 145 0
randy minich 135 0 0 0 0 0 135 0
butch hylton 0 135 0 0 0 0 135 0
brian bowie 130 0 0 0 0 0 130 0
dylan zartman 125 0 0 0 0 0 125 0

[Rob Cutman]

I agree Todd,it just sucks the rules have dictated the change of how people feel about the sport now.I hear alot of opposition about this rule change and I hate that an open class is limited.It's just not an open class anymore.I miss the "true open" aspect of this class,but your right,alot of people have been that way at one point in time.

Aconsola,I wasn't trying to be rude or anything......my bad...it's just that seems to be the argument that alot of people is about the realism of the car and thats why the side dam was removed and to try to make the compition tighter.But it didn't make the compition any better instead it kinda killed the class and guys started moving on to other classes so now it's dying off just the 2wd gas truck class is doing in the offroad world.To say the least it sucks.I just hope one day it goes back to the way it was. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

The term "OPEN" refers to motor limitations not rules in general. "Open" sprint cars have limits on wing sizes to keep them in perspective. And apparently Open 1/8th scale classes have body restictions now too!

I must have missed where they took the side dams off the off-road trucks!!

[Rob Cutman]

Seems like I'm not the only one who wants the sidedams back.


If you want to run sidedams at Wilson tell Chad to change his rules. As I have said till I am blue in the face no one is making him use the DODC rules, that is his perogative.

[Rob Cutman]

The stability they give the car adds to the fun driving these race cars. Race your Taxi's, but give me a Rocketship with a dam on it any day... :thumbsup: :revs: :greenflag:

I can assure you that Bazooka body you outlawed made the cars more stable too!:confused:

[Rob Cutman]

They run real cars with sidedams. This is the car that customworks got there Rocket body from. Why does this car hold so many records?

30428

That was also 20 years ago. Yes it holds a lot of records but Randy Sweet told me to my face that he quit running it because he was afraid he would kill himself or put it in the grandstands if it ever got airborne.

As far as not having the side dams it brings out the driver thats why I think it killed the class. These are TOY cars they arent real. They dont drive like a real car. So some people do need the "help" of the sidedams. It closes the gap alittle for imperfections in setup. Not everyone has a pro driver to help them or the ability to figure it all out on there own.


Sorry but I respectfully disagree with this thought process. The side dam is simply another tool that a "proffessional" can use to exploit his ability. Where were all of these non proffesional racers last year when Lee Jones was winning races by 3 laps with his side dam.

[Team GFRP]

i can assure you that bazooka body you outlawed made the cars more stable too!:confused:


priceless

[donnie victor]

Are you being serious? I think we have seen how productive that approach has been for the 8th scale community.

Maybe I missed it but when was the vote on the Bazooka body taken???I wish you could have been there to get your vote and opinion. It sounds like everyone is running scared from the terrible side dams. They are a tool of the sport, nothing more. Rob if you know the whole Bazooka issue why slam me with it. As you know there was only one vote cast. For the sake of realism and the hope that situations like that do not ruin the sport I care deeply about... Donnie V.

[maestro]

That was also 20 years ago. Yes it holds a lot of records but Randy Sweet told me to my face that he quit running it because he was afraid he would kill himself or put it in the grandstands if it ever got airborne.


Sorry but I respectfully disagree with this thought process. The side dam is simply another tool that a "proffessional" can use to exploit his ability. Where were all of these non proffesional racers last year when Lee Jones was winning races by 3 laps with his side dam.


Rob, I heard that myself, You my have even told me that. The piont is a car with a sidedam is faster. Like I said in an earlier post, I just cant stand when people say a side dam is just a crutch. It can be but it can also be used to tune a already fast car. I'm not saying we need to put sidedams back on all the cars, But I did like them better. BTW they still run LM's all over the country with sidedams today. Most are special events but they still are run today.

You can disagree if you like. No need to be sorry. I'm not saying it's going to make everyone faster. Yes in capable hands it makes faster guys even faster, but it does "help" imperfections in set up ability. Perfect example: The first time I ever met you we were running the Dominators at the Open wheel. Do you think I had any idea what I was doing? I was running second to you until a lapped car took me out. That was the first time I ever raced a national event. So I'm sure it was'nt my setup ability. I think it just helps alittle.

I think your taking what I am saying here alot different than my intentions. As I said earlier, I am for what ever makes people come and race with us. Hell I'll run a bomber car if it gets people to the track. I admit after the open class dropped sidedams I really had no desire to come run anything else. So I quit. Im glad I'm back running at C&S. I Missed it alot. I cant believe an 1/8 scale's what got me interested again but what ever works. I am running the 13.5 class now and will be running another class soon.

[Rob Cutman]

Rob, I heard that myself, You my have even told me that. The piont is a car with a sidedam is faster. Like I said in an earlier post, I just cant stand when people say a side dam is just a crutch. It can be but it can also be used to tune a already fast car. I'm not saying we need to put sidedams back on all the cars, But I did like them better. BTW they still run LM's all over the country with sidedams today. Most are special events but they still are run today.

You can disagree if you like. No need to be sorry. I'm not saying it's going to make everyone faster. Yes in capable hands it makes faster guys even faster, but it does "help" imperfections in set up ability. Perfect example: The first time I ever met you we were running the Dominators at the Open wheel. Do you think I had any idea what I was doing? I was running second to you until a lapped car took me out. That was the first time I ever raced a national event. So I'm sure it was'nt my setup ability. I think it just helps alittle.

I think your taking what I am saying here alot different than my intentions. As I said earlier, I am for what ever makes people come and race with us. Hell I'll run a bomber car if it gets people to the track. I admit after the open class dropped sidedams I really had no desire to come run anything else. So I quit. Im glad I'm back running at C&S. I Missed it alot. I cant believe an 1/8 scale's what got me interested again but what ever works. I am running the 13.5 class now and will be running another class soon.

Lance,
I do respect your opinion, I respect everyones opinion on this and any other matter. My point is simply this. Many are on here blaming this rule for the lack of a robust open LM class in this area basically cherryville and wilson. All I am saying is this class was suffering even when we did run sidedams and the racing as a whole is suffering now at both of these tracks. Blaming it on the "National Rules" is not fair as these rules have not appeared to hurt this or any other class in the majority of the rest of the country, In fact car counts are up in most other areas that have adopted this rules package. If it is working for the rest of the country than why should this rule be changed for two tracks that are not doing well with any class they are racing. If Steve or Chad think it would help them get more cars than they are more than welcome to make their own rules.

Ive never called the sidedam a crutch but by your own description it sounds like it has that effect if it "helps" you go faster. Bottom line is a side dam allows you to run quicker lap times. The faster the cars go, the higher the talent level required to not knock the walls down.

As I said I value your opinion and any others that are constructive and are formed on some common sense.

[Rob Cutman]

I wish you could have been there to get your vote and opinion. It sounds like everyone is running scared from the terrible side dams. They are a tool of the sport, nothing more. Rob if you know the whole Bazooka issue why slam me with it. As you know there was only one vote cast. For the sake of realism and the hope that situations like that do not ruin the sport I care deeply about... Donnie V.

Donnie,
The problem I have is that you keep appearing to talk out of both sides of your mouth. Sidedams are just fine but you are concerned with promoting realism??? This post alone is contradictory... I probably dont know the whole Bazooka body story. I do know this though. Me and a few other people had the forsight to make rules that would keep things like that from happening and you were one of the people who were criitcal of it in the begining. You created an Outlaw series with a battle cry of run what you brung and than outlawed a body at the first race that was perfectly within the few rules you bothered to create. I guess this whole rules thing isnt as easy as everyone thinks it is!

[maestro]

Rob, I guess I did'nt really mean to put "blame" on the national rulebook. I apologize for that. Your right it's not fair. I think the national rule book is a great thing. I like the fact I can go race just about anywhere and I am going to have basically the same car, engine, body etc. That is a positive thing. I hate that we have two really great tracks and the car count is'nt as high as it should be. I wish I new the answer. The new 13.5 class has really got me excited. I thought I would neve run electric again but we'll have a few cars out there soon. What a fun class.

I was'nt saying you said it was a crutch. I was talking about other people that 9 out 10 times run edm or sprint, that say they are only a crutch. As I said "YES they can be a crutch but they can be a tuning tool as well." Back when we ran that openwheel race they were definetly "some" help to me, I know alot more now than I did back then.

Like the last time this was beat to death I will leave it here. I'm just glad I have a great racetrack to race on with great people to race with. See ya at the track.

[Rob Cutman]

Rob, I guess I did'nt really mean to put "blame" on the national rulebook. I apologize for that. Your right it's not fair. I think the national rule book is a great thing. I like the fact I can go race just about anywhere and I am going to have basically the same car, engine, body etc. That is a positive thing. I hate that we have two really great tracks and the car count is'nt as high as it should be. I wish I new the answer. The new 13.5 class has really got me excited. I thought I would neve run electric again but we'll have a few cars out there soon. What a fun class.

I was'nt saying you said it was a crutch. I was talking about other people that 9 out 10 times run edm or sprint, that say they are only a crutch. As I said "YES they can be a crutch but they can be a tuning tool as well." Back when we ran that openwheel race they were definetly "some" help to me, I know alot more now than I did back then.

Like the last time this was beat to death I will leave it here. I'm just glad I have a great racetrack to race on with great people to race with. See ya at the track.

10-4, I will have a 13.5 car together soon so we can bang some fenders again. Just make sure you tell Kristen were havin fun with it, I don't want her mad at me!
LOL

Thanks,
Rob

[Rob Cutman]

Pa Nitro Tour race at Staub Brothers

Open Latemodel entries

2008 with side dams 23 racers
2009 without side dams 29 racers

[maestro]

10-4, I will have a 13.5 car together soon so we can bang some fenders again. Just make sure you tell Kristen were havin fun with it, I don't want her mad at me!
LOL

Thanks,
Rob


You got it. :D

[donnie victor]

Sorry you feel that way Rob. As long as I have been racing RC cars regionaly the open class has always had side dams. The 8th LMs are large enough to copy the looks of the full scale, and look great. Most of us are not factory drivers or have the ability to keep up with one. But we can have a great looking car and try to compete with you guys. Thats the bottom line. I have seen alot of guys coming off the drivers stand smiling and shaking hands and saying that they cant remember when the last time they had done that. I am not saying that changing the side dam rule has killed the 10th scale class, but I do believe that RC racing is swaying more towards the 8th scale class.
Most everyone in Dirt Oval racing owe thanks to you and a few others that have taken alot of flak to help keep this sport growing. We all love this sport but the rules seem to be more regional than national. So most racers have issues with national rules if they are not similar to the ones they race under at their local race tracks. IMO

[Rob Cutman]

I have seen alot of guys coming off the drivers stand smiling and shaking hands and saying that they cant remember when the last time they had done that. I am not saying that changing the side dam rule has killed the 10th scale class, but I do believe that RC racing is swaying more towards the 8th scale class.


Yes and the same thing happens in the midwest where they dont run sidedams on their 8th scale cars. The success of the 1/8th scale racing has very little to do with the fact that they have sidedams on them. I saw plenty of open LM side dam racing where guys walked off the stand cussing each other because someone drove straight through them in the corner since they didnt have to lift at all.

[93TA]

Bottom line is a side dam allows you to run quicker lap times. The faster the cars go, the higher the talent level required to not knock the walls down.



exactly what i've been saying around here for years. :checkeredflag:

[ed gaines]

They use side dams in the mid west on 8th scale.

[donnie victor]

Yes and the same thing happens in the midwest where they dont run sidedams on their 8th scale cars. The success of the 1/8th scale racing has very little to do with the fact that they have sidedams on them. I saw plenty of open LM side dam racing where guys walked off the stand cussing each other because someone drove straight through them in the corner since they didnt have to lift at all. I agree with you 100 percent that the side dams will not effect the success of these cars. After the ONS race Saturday at CBRCR I am convinced that qualifying these cars one at a time seperates driver abilities which promotes drivers on the same level to be in the same heats. That has resulted in to some of the best racing I have ever witnessed. I am having a ball with this series and it seems most everyone that has raced in it has also... I would like to have you come to one of our races. I have a fast car you are welcome to race... Tom Ickes borrowed it at CBRCR an won three mains with it... :thumbsup:

[Breckenridge]

I think if you want a car that is planted to the ground, can be run wide-open, and does not slide - you should maybe look into asphalt racing. Driving a latemodel with a sidedam can be a thrilling experience....one that I have enjoyed many times myself, but it eventually killed the electric latemodel class that was thriving in the early 90's. Classes do not survive when someone is winning by 3 laps because they have something figured out that no one else does, or because they can run wide-open and spent way more $$ than any one else. It is the unfortunate truth.

[Gambler]

I think if you want a car that is planted to the ground, can be run wide-open, and does not slide - you should maybe look into asphalt racing. Driving a latemodel with a sidedam can be a thrilling experience....one that I have enjoyed many times myself, but it eventually killed the electric latemodel class that was thriving in the early 90's. Classes do not survive when someone is winning by 3 laps because they have something figured out that no one else does, or because they can run wide-open and spent way more $$ than any one else. It is the unfortunate truth.



Exactly!!

[luke81]

Depends how you look at it. When I get beat I'd rather work on my stuff some more and get better as a driver and go faster. To me that's a lot bigger accomplishment than making rules to slow people down.

[JASONHastings]

That's what taking the side dam off did make you work on your chassis .IMO.

[T.Ford14]

Rob,sorry I didn't break it down for you in Barney terms about the side dam but I never said the offroad ran side dams,I was comparing the falling numbers of interest in the 2wd truck class and the open latemodel class.Hope it clerifies and there is no more confusion for you.Sorry you have such a bad attitude about peoples opinions but there are alot of people who want the side dams and some who don't.I would like to see them back personaly,but it's your show.I just don't see why you should slam people for having an opinion.You should actually want to hear peoples opinions.At least they still love and keep up with the sport.Best wishes. :beer: :thumbsup:

[Rob Cutman]

Rob,sorry I didn't break it down for you in Barney terms about the side dam but I never said the offroad ran side dams,I was comparing the falling numbers of interest in the 2wd truck class and the open latemodel class.Hope it clerifies and there is no more confusion for you.Sorry you have such a bad attitude about peoples opinions but there are alot of people who want the side dams and some who don't.I would like to see them back personaly,but it's your show.I just don't see why you should slam people for having an opinion.You should actually want to hear peoples opinions.At least they still love and keep up with the sport.Best wishes. :beer: :thumbsup:

No Bad attitude here. Please tell me where I have SLAMMED anyone! I have pointed out to a few people where they are either just plain wrong or being a hypocrite that is all. I welcome opinions based on common sense and facts. The only place the open latemodels have declined are the same place the racing as a whole has declined. As has been stated on here by several others and proven in facts, open latemodel numbers are up in a lot of places since the new rules went in to place.

And for the record it is not "MY SHOW". The rules you race by at your track are up to you and your track owners not me. If they want to use our rules fine, no one is forcing them on anyone so blame the car counts on them and not the new rules. There were not ANY National rules in place before this set was published so whatever you guys did before should still work just fine for you now. If that is a bad attitude so be it, but you need to put the blame where it belongs.

Rob

[T.Ford14]

:)

[Corny05]

The reason there has been a drop, if any, in Late Model is because the class was split in 2 for the tg class. That will happen in any class you split. I like the new side dam rule for the late model-its more realistic looking-(witch is the point of running rc-to look as real as the full size car) and I havent noticed any measurable difference in handling, and all of the fast guys are still fast. PA Nitro tour is the best Travling Dirt Oval tour around!:thumbsup:

[RacerX11]

PA Nitro tour is the best Travling Dirt Oval tour around!:thumbsup:

Amen to That!!:D

[wfw94]

Depends how you look at it. When I get beat I'd rather work on my stuff some more and get better as a driver and go faster. To me that's a lot bigger accomplishment than making rules to slow people down.
Quote of the year, get outrun , cry , quit, or start another class instead of working on your car, asking for help, or just realizing you can't go that fast and enjoying a great hobby. Thanks Mr. Skywalker you must truly have the force with you .

[wfw94]

The reason there has been a drop, if any, in Late Model is because the class was split in 2 for the tg class. That will happen in any class you split. I like the new side dam rule for the late model-its more realistic looking-(witch is the point of running rc-to look as real as the full size car) and I havent noticed any measurable difference in handling, and all of the fast guys are still fast. PA Nitro tour is the best Travling Dirt Oval tour around!:thumbsup:
I never knew the point of RC racing was to look realistic, I have missed it all along. I thought it was about racing , fellowship and having a good time , not wanting everyone to run the class that you like. Not being too sarcastic, but your car must have been a real lemon. I still don't see why people that don't like it or don't want to run it even comment about the side dams.

[donnie victor]

Side dams have never caused the failure of any class of RC cars that used them. The only thing that they do is keep your ass from coming around if you missed your mark. Other than that they dont do much, accept catch all the flak and blame. If your race car will not turn, a side dam isnt some magic tool that is going to make it turn. You still have to set the car up properly. Thats why I cant understand all the negative posts concerning the dams.

[Dlan44]

Yes and the same thing happens in the midwest where they dont run sidedams on their 8th scale cars. The success of the 1/8th scale racing has very little to do with the fact that they have sidedams on them. I saw plenty of open LM side dam racing where guys walked off the stand cussing each other because someone drove straight through them in the corner since they didnt have to lift at all.

BINGO !
Sidedams also make horsepower a premium and that costs money............

OTHSE SIDE:
Personally I like sidedams. However there is a diminishing return. Namely cost in engines and broken parts. Not to mention the marshals.

What Rob, Mason, and Larry has said is true. The Limoted classes popularity has done more to decrease the open car count more than any other reason. The cars are slower, cheaper and the racing is better.

As far as realism goes Rob and I have had some discussions over this and on occasion he has proved me wrong (tire sizes :p). I like to see realistic looking cars to get spectators interested to the point they want to join in. Our challenge is that based on wheelbases alone 1/10 isn't really 1/10, and neither is 1/8. Compromises have been made to the point that the cars are close. Wheels in many cases don't match scale either, but we have what we have. ALL the rules makers have to work inside a box......and most do a pretty good job of making the cars look close to theeir full size counterparts, and that is more important than true scale. We still have to consider the stability of the cars for safety and the new racer. Happy mediums have been accomplished in the past, and will again.
For the sake of realism..........I would like to see DODC come up with a STANDARD TEMPLATE for the EDM side panels so they can control the appearance of the cars, and simplify tech issues. Come up with a standatd shape, and the body builders can not exceed that size. They can make it smaller, and change the shiloette some, but can't make it taller or longer. This would also present an opportunity to control the "sail panels" rarely seen on real modifieds to the extent we have on RC Cars.
DODC rules are just as Rob said........suggestions. They have given us a standard to work with. For their series it is the law. Any local track or series can pick which DODC class or rules to follow, or none at all. For a saturday night race at Billy Bobs, he is not going to turn some kid away if he has a class he can fit him in to. Quit worrying about what the rules do for big events and get those kids out racing on Saturday nights so Billy Bob can stay open !

[Corny05]

I never knew the point of RC racing was to look realistic, I have missed it all along. I thought it was about racing , fellowship and having a good time , not wanting everyone to run the class that you like. Not being too sarcastic, but your car must have been a real lemon. I still don't see why people that don't like it or don't want to run it even comment about the side dams.
Yeah, you'r right. I must be slow like a lemon, and all of the guys I race against all the time too like Jim Fries, Mike Schell, Mark Blake, Randy Minich, Steve Salvas, Brad Wilson, Nathen Flaetcher, CJ Funk, Andy Schell, and Steve Tyson-just to name a few. These guys are some of the best rc drivers on dirt, and with or without Side dams they are just as fast. And I do have a right to comment on it because I run open and tg late model. And yes, the primary point-(but not the only point) of running any scaled down version is to look as much as similiar as the real thing as possible-some classes except. And since when do we race for fun?-we all say that before the racing starts and afterwards lie just like politicians! lol;) Looking for the best Tracks, Classes and Drivers? Come visit PA-Dirt oval Country!:) Just a quick question, has anybody done a controlled test to see if there was any difference w/or w/out side dam?

[donnie victor]

With a side dam they are one to two laps faster in four minutes.

[Mr twister]

Just a quick question, has anybody done a controlled test to see if there was any difference w/or w/out side dam?


I will be doing a test on just that in the next week or so, I am hoping to get some new bodies by thenb and will build a sidedam body and nonesidedam body, our track is also getting light's so i will do the test in the evening when the track is at it's prime to get a fair run, unless someone can test the theory befor then.

As a fair comparison, I ran at Family RC in open and I may be wrong, but i do think the open class was faster.

Either way, i have nothig to gain or lose by trying it and i will give my honest opinion and every bit of data we collect from the test, man, starting to feel like this is CUP:thumbsup:

Brian Carey
Pro Twister Mods

[Corny05]

I agree! Maybe we need Goodyear to step in to make a longer lasting foam tire too! lol.:D

[Mr twister]

I agree! Maybe we need Goodyear to step in to make a longer lasting foam tire too! lol.:D

lol i think the sidedam deal is a big enough can of worms for this year, I 'm waiting for someone to tell me that it's illeagle for me to be windtunnel testing my C&M bodies;)

[Team GFRP]

With a side dam they are one to two laps faster in four minutes.


That is on a 4wd 8th scale. We ran side dams on our track in Lafayette one week just to play. If I remember correct they were 8 laps faster than the non side board cars. That was about 3 tenths PER LAP faster. We decided against them as all we did was break parts that night. The quality of the driver was not the issue either since 4 out of the 5 guys racing them were guys who have made the A main at the OW a few times.

[donnie victor]

That is on a 4wd 8th scale. We ran side dams on our track in Lafayette one week just to play. If I remember correct they were 8 laps faster than the non side board cars. That was about 3 tenths PER LAP faster. We decided against them as all we did was break parts that night. The quality of the driver was not the issue either since 4 out of the 5 guys racing them were guys who have made the A main at the OW a few times.What parts on the car are you guys breaking??? I have raced my Losi car for three years now and havent broken a thing... I have bent some axles and the bolt that holds the hub carrier. The durability of these cars is the single most attractive thing about them, and the four wheel drive...IMO

[93TA]

they are talking about 2wd 1/10 late models, that is what this whole topic is about, NOT 1/8

[Team GFRP]

they are talking about 2wd 1/10 late models, that is what this whole topic is about, NOT 1/8


Exactly...

[donnie victor]

Sorry guys I thought the focus was the side dams not the scale.... :confused:

[curtisp]

What parts on the car are you guys breaking??? I have raced my Losi car for three years now and havent broken a thing... I have bent some axles and the bolt that holds the hub carrier. The durability of these cars is the single most attractive thing about them, and the four wheel drive...IMO

Sorry guys I thought the focus was the side dams not the scale.... :confused:


well...YOU asked what parts they were breaking...and YOU mentioned the durability of YOUR 1/8 scale Losi.

[T.Ford14]

Oh well no big deal about the scale,the deal is we do still run sidedams at our local track,however I really did enjoy going to Cherryville N.C. to run the Latemodel Nats but I wont be attending that race or any other races with my latemodel since we don't have the sidedams.It actually took the fun out of the class.Rob I understand the rule being open motors.And with the open motors I still believe the sidedam should be apart of the open latemodel to keep this class fast and more seperated from the limited class.So for what it's worth,that is just my opinion.Some people need the crutch,I am one of them.:D
Maybe one day I will be able to get my car setup as good as everyone elses to be as compititive without the sidedam as much as I was with it.:thumbsup:

Best Wishes

TREY

[Jason Bowlin]

Oh well no big deal about the scale,the deal is we do still run sidedams at our local track,however I really did enjoy going to Cherryville N.C. to run the Latemodel Nats but I wont be attending that race or any other races with my latemodel since we don't have the sidedams.It actually took the fun out of the class.Rob I understand the rule being open motors.And with the open motors I still believe the sidedam should be apart of the open latemodel to keep this class fast and more seperated from the limited class.So for what it's worth,that is just my opinion.Some people need the crutch,I am one of them.:D
Maybe one day I will be able to get my car setup as good as everyone elses to be as compititive without the sidedam as much as I was with it.:thumbsup:

Best Wishes

TREY


If your talking about 1/8 scale they do run side dams at C&S in open,we just dont run them in 1/10.

JB

[T.Ford14]

I was refering to 10th scale.:thumbsup: