?????????????

[terry14]

at this point i think there are alot of people not happy about the dodc motor situation. i have waited like everyone else to find out whats going on. the two biggest races of the year( open wheel , and the freeze) are now the two biggest problems because of the motors. nobody can get any runtime before the freeze, and the open wheel...well:thumbsdown:. i agree 100% with the national rules package. i don"t like that when post's get put up with questions they don't get answered. it is a huge undertaking to head-up this rule package , that is for sure. it is also hard having the rc community all looking at you for answers. when this was put in place there were alot of people voicing there opinoins about it. now it has history. it needs to get better quickly. so far the history of the package is a big black eye(motors). someone needs to fix it one way or another. it is very clear that (so far)problems are going to breed more problems. i want this rule package to work. i also question the thought(time wise) that went into it before the hammer was dropped. it's fine to make mistakes. most are judged by how they fix them.:thumbsdown:

[Todd Putnam]

Terry,

It has only been 1 week since the USOW - last week was a wash as the manufacturers were off for the holiday. We were on the phone while at the USOW working with the supplier, and every day since as long as they were open.

All questions were answered on the other thread - there are problems and they will be fixed, and as soon as we have the solution everyone will be notified.

I understand everyone's frustration. If you want to feel more frustration, put yourself in our shoes...

The DODC has been a huge success so far, and the motor issues will be resolved. Hang in there-

Todd

[terry14]

todd
i realize it has only been two weeks since the race. the timeframe is very sesative because of the freeze quickly approaching. there have been numerous threads not answered. i would NOT want to be in your shoes right now. thats why i race and don't make rules. if i had made these rules i would expect a whole bunch of complaining. if there is still a problem with the dodc motors then why not decide on an existing motor? the new rules have been a success except for the motors. that is a fact to everyone that spent money for basicly nothing. please don't think i am attacking you , or anyone else. i am trying to voice my opinion without ruffling any feathers. like i said i couldn't handle it , although i will expect the people that had a hand in these rules to do so. sometime very soon we will be looking back at this and hopefully laughing about it. for now it is a huge problem. i am not expecting my post to make any difference, but i will sleep better tonight. at this point in time there has got to be some type of info. about the motors. if there isn't then someone has failed. once again i am not trying to stir anything up. i just believe there should be something to report to us by now.

[Team HHS]

I agree with you Terry. I have no problem with motor issue. This is my problem. Rob posted this http://www.dirtoval.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34954&page=2.

It has been 11 days since this post. At least come on here and keep us in the loop.

I have been trying to push these rules at Crazy Boys for their upcoming trophy race and beyond, but now it has turned into an open 13.5 motor class, which is nothing more than another motor of the week class.

I whole-heartedly support the rules and the people that had the balls to step up and make them. I can see the end result of the rules making the racing a little more economical, and fair.

What I don't support is the mentality of keeping the racers that will support these rules in the dark.

[BustedGFX]

I agree with terry14 and sprint5H, we all understand it has not been that long since everyone realized the dodc motors werent what they were expected to be, but being left in the dark after reading that we would all be told whats goin on in a day or two is kinda frustraiting on the racers end. I mean, there are alot of people who have been waiting to buy the dodc motor since it was released, and now were all in the same boat again, but maybe worse cus now as far as we the racer know, there isnt a motor! I also applaud those who are putting in the effort to resolve this issue, hopefully we will know soon what the decision will be. Maybe the motor part of the rule can be waived for the freeze if theres no answer by then??

[signman501]

I think that most of you feel that this should have be fixed right away but you have to look at the time frame. The USOWC was just a working week before the Christmas holidays so you will have to realize that most manufacturing is closed for the holidays. Also most of the motor manufactures are overseas so it will take a bit to get new motors into the country. I'm sure that Rob is out of the shop for the holidays as well as taking a bit of a break after the race. I feel that after the first of the year they will take care of the problem.

In the meanwhile I am putting the old reliable Novak back in my cars. I had one that dodc motors that smoked in 10 minutes and another that runs like a banshee so they are fairly inconsistent. I won't buy another dodc spec motor until I have to. Unless they get the motors straight I expect to see Chris make an exception for the Freeze rules.

[terry14]

i have no doubt that the problem will be fixed. i can NOT nelieve that there is no updates. if you look back at when these rules were first posted there was alot of speculation. with making the rules comes a huge responsability. when there is a problem you can't walk away from it and come back later too fix it. it works both ways. if we are supposed to embrace these rules then they should be handled better. this is starting to turn into exactly what some said in the begining.if one person is on vacation , then why can"t the other 10 people make some decisions?????? i don't believe this should all rest on rob's shoulders. or is he realy the puppetmaster? i don't want this thread to get out of hand. i (along with the entire country would like some answers) the problem is big, which should mean that it gets alot of attention from the commitee. yes it has been enough time for answers. maybe not new motors, but answers. there was no problem in the begining to make rules without having the equipment.

[signman501]

Terry, remember we are still into the holidays. Rob, Todd, Sonny and most of the members of the rules comittee are either on vacation or working. Talk to Brock or Chris at Bumps this weekend. I'll be there myself. There are more things going on in this world right now that take more priority than this situation. I know that this problem will be taken care of. I talked to Rob when my motor let go at the Open Wheel. It will be taken car of. Did you lose a motor at Open Wheel? Was it replaced?

[terry14]

no. i wasn't at the open wheel. i am just trying to get ready for the freeze. i am sure the problem will get fixed. that isn't even the issue anymore. i need to scrap the electric and just get my nitro ready. there may be more important things going on in the world, but i doubt there are as many people depending on them. i didn't want to upset anyone. if i did i am sorry. this is it for me. i have said what i am thinking. i will now be a good little soldier and wait untill i get to the freeze to see what motor i am running. hopefuly it will get resolved before that. once again sorry if i upset anyone. i don't want to throw stones, just get answers that are either there, or maybe not. if not then shame on someone. i was never looking for someone to say it was fixed , just what was going on.

[Bulldog_Wally14]

Relax guys. First, let me say that I am one of the members of the DODC rules guys...and I don't know one thing more than you guys do about the status of the motors, so what I'm about to say is somewhat speculative. Other than Todd Putnam and Custom Works, none of us have a stake on the financial end of this deal.

There are a number of things working against us right now. I don't know what type of jobs y'all have, but I have not been in my office since last Tuesday and I dont plan on being back until next Monday....most of my co-workers are in a similar situation. I'm sure that many other people around the country are on the same vacation schedule. If it just so happens that the point man (or woman) at the motor supplier is on vacation, Todd, Rob and the rest of us are dead in the water.

It has been said before, and I can assure you that these motors were rigorously tested before hand and all passed w/ flying colors, so no one saw this coming.

The fact that there are now some motors in circulation, makes this a difficult situation. Remember, Putnam forked out literally thousands of dollars for these motors, which by the way, were specially colored for the DODC, and also were given away at ZERO profit at the OW.

So, since about 1 out of every 5 or so of the motors were defective, what happens to everyone who had no problems w/ motors? In a perfect world, everyone sends their good and bad motors back to Putnam Propulsion, Todd sends them back to the supplier and he gets a full refund. Unfortunately, companies don't like to give money back, especially in the amounts that we are talking about here, and especially when the item in question is custom....not to mention that it would be a logistical nightmare. Not likely going to happen.

So, do we go back to the drawing board and pick another motor? What happens to all the good motors that are out there? Do you just tell all of those guys, "sorry, you can't use that motor anymore", and leave them out some money? I don't know the answer to that.

Remember, the world of business moves very slowly, and during the hoildays, it damn near stops, so just give this some time and I'm sure there will be an answer that we all can live with soon.

[terry14]

thanks wally. it helps to get an update. even if there is no new news. this thread has defonitely cleared up one thing for sure. it sounds like there , unfortunatly , was a few handpicked people to be guinny pigs to have to answer for the boss.

[curtisp]

I'm pretty sure that most of the people that are asking about the motor issue understand that the holidays really mess things up. It's nice to see replies from those that were/are involved in this issue. So, thank-you Todd & Wally for posting replies. And to Rob and all of the others that are working to solve this issue.

I will admit that at first I didn't like the "spec" class. Just like others, I have batteries and motors that I wouldn't be able to run, although I could run them in the Mod Class. After having time for the rules to sink in, I liked the idea of racing in a "spec" class. I am looking forward to racing at the Freeze, which is only 8 weeks away! And, I am planning on racing in the "spec" classes.

But, that 8 weeks will go by fast! Unfortunately, this motor issue is a BIG issue especially for those thinking about running the "spec" classes at the Freeze. Will the issue be resolved and will motors be available in time? Will Chris have to decide to change to a different motor or make some other change because of this issue? If another motor is chosen, then that adds to what Wally mentioned about the guys that got good motors at the Open Wheel. And, if a different motor is chosen, hopefully they will be easy to get.

The best that we (the racers) can do is wait and see what happens. I hope that the issue is taken care of as quickly as we would like. I'm sure that it will be taken care of as quickly as it can be. It's just tough with the races as close as they are and with the holidays in between.

Keep us posted. Thanks for working to solve the problem.

[kipp]

i think the manufacturer should give a full refund or be hanged. nice way to hang a cloud over something so positive and give the non supporters a reason to say i told you so. isnt there a company that still make quality motors in america? wouldnt it be nice if you could buy more things that say "made with pride in the usa" again!!!

[rj14]

i think the manufacturer should give a full refund or be hanged. nice way to hang a cloud over something so positive and give the non supporters a reason to say i told you so. isnt there a company that still make quality motors in america? wouldnt it be nice if you could buy more things that say "made with pride in the usa" again!!!

all the bl handouts at Solly's Cato RC Dreamworld are made by Native Americans on sovereign soil.

[rj14]

oops, forgot that you also get a free pack of smokes, hand rolled too!

[kipp]

Wow, Solly's Cato RC Dreamworld must be a magical place.

[Team GFRP]

Other than Todd Putnam and Custom Works, none of us have a stake on the financial end of this deal.

Ummm... I think that everyone that has purchased a motor or 3 which ever the case may be, have a financial stake in this.

[rj14]

anyone have a supply of small woodland creatures????? tired of seeing horses beat up.

[justanotherbrick]

Was it actually 1 in 5 bad motors? Where I pitted several racers were racing spec edm and only 1 went bad, not trying to stir things up, I personally walked away with 2 good motors and only my poor driving kept me out of the higher mains. just my $.02

[outlaw4life]

I just did not understand why they picked the manufacture that they did. You would have thought that they would have went with a company that had been making brushless systems, (not a new and up coming brand). Like any new product you are going to have problems. I feel that they should have looked at the tracks that had already been running this class. These track had a summer of running this class and pretty much knew what motors worked good and held up. I think that pushing for a new up coming brushless company was not the way to go. Now you have people saying that they will be out money if they change the motor company. I say its no differant than the people that already had 13.5 motors from running this class during the summer. They all had to go out and buy the new spec motor. If it was about money, again they should have looking at what the majority of the people was using. But this is just my opinion.

[Doug D]

Outlaw - I don't think the motors were made by a "new company", from my understanding the motors are produced by the same company that make the Losi brushless motors. I also know that the motor issue is being dealt with. I had an awesome motor throughout practice and set TQ (13.5 Sprint) with it in the 1st round. In round (2) my LRP TC and motor burned up and the motor was replaced at no cost. My temps throughout practice and 1st round of quals were in 120-130 range. Again, I can say that the entire Custom Works crew and Todd Putnam were really concerned and listened to what everyone had to say that had motor problems at the USOW. They will rectify this situation, plus 8 weeks is plenty of time before the Freeze...;):thumbsup::checkeredflag:

[Bulldog_Wally14]

Ummm... I think that everyone that has purchased a motor or 3 which ever the case may be, have a financial stake in this.

I was referring to the folks who were in on making the DODC rules, and which of those people had a financial stake in the package as a whole. No disrespect meant to the fine racers who have already purchased motors. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

[RobRacer]

My pit was right behind Todds at the Open Wheel, so I was able to personally see several motors that were returned but were Casualties of Operator Error...

A handful of the 13.5s that went bad were bacause guys tried to use long motor screws and damagesd the Stantor Windings. Directions that came with my new DODC 17.5 clearly said to use short screws in the instructions... but wait - at the open wheel they handed me the 13.5 - without directions...

Because this was a new track for brushless and minimal practice time, several guys overgeared the motors and blew them up that way. I believe that most of the operator error blown motors were replaced. Note here: those little duratrax temp guages can be off by 20 - 30 degrees. Researching Infrared temp guns, I found out that many types can be off by even more. So was your 150 degree motor really over 180 when it came off the track? Was your 170 motor really at 200 degrees?

With that said - there were a small handful of outright failures. I think the operator error made the situation look worse than it really was. Of the group I pitted with, we had 11 motors and only one failure. And I kinda think he overgeared it...

In my gut exerience, I felt like in the first 2 runs with the new DODC motors they pull more and in subsequent runs begin to flatten out just a little. I have both the DODC 17.5 and 13.5. Once you change the pinion to gear it up slightly to hit the sweet spot again - they seem to run the same lap times as when they were new.

Last night I really beat the SNOT (pun on the legionaires disease I brought back from the Open Wheel) out of both 13.5 and 17.5 in our new little indoor bullring and they are still running strong.

- BG

[glgraphix]

Was it actually 1 in 5 bad motors? Where I pitted several racers were racing spec edm and only 1 went bad, not trying to stir things up, I personally walked away with 2 good motors and only my poor driving kept me out of the higher mains. just my $.02
Richard, I couldnt have said it better myself.
Kevin

Unfortunatly, it looks now as I may not make it to the Freeze this year ('09). Just too many finance issues at the moment. Will talk to Reggie soon.

[kipp]

I just did not understand why they picked the manufacture that they did. You would have thought that they would have went with a company that had been making brushless systems, (not a new and up coming brand). Like any new product you are going to have problems. I feel that they should have looked at the tracks that had already been running this class. These track had a summer of running this class and pretty much knew what motors worked good and held up. I think that pushing for a new up coming brushless company was not the way to go. Now you have people saying that they will be out money if they change the motor company. I say its no differant than the people that already had 13.5 motors from running this class during the summer. They all had to go out and buy the new spec motor. If it was about money, again they should have looking at what the majority of the people was using. But this is just my opinion.

from what i understand they checked with several manufacturers. i think losi was the only one that would promise the motors would not change for at least a year or two. they are also willing to do special runs in the DODC colors. the fact that losi has been supporting dirt oval racing with thier dirt oval kits was also considered. they have given dirt oval some great exposure. i can assure you that everyone involved in this package are working very hard to make sure that the motors will be fine. this was the first test and its going to take more then a few days to figure out what caused some of the failures and correct the problem.

[AJS]

Why not go with something tried and true like NOVAK. Great history and a great product. Novak has supported oval racing since the beginning of the Brushless motors also doing the research and development.

Just my opinion.

[outlaw4life]

Why not go with something tried and true like NOVAK. Great history and a great product. Novak has supported oval racing since the beginning of the Brushless motors also doing the research and development.

Just my opinion.
I agree. Novak sponsored the open wheel last year when they aloud the brushless in the open mod class. They also sponsered the race this year. I did not see Losi as a sponsor this year. The bad thing in using the xcelorin motor in my opinion. If you are using a brushless speedo that does not have the ablity to advance the timming. You are going to be at a disadvantage. By using a novak motor, the speedo's that have the ablity to advance the timming in their systems. Will tell you to set your timming at zero, because you run the risk at burning up your speedo or motor. So in my opinion this would make for a better motor in the spec class. This would have made for a better even playing field.

[Team GFRP]

I don't think that burning motors up was a timing issue. I know I had the timing all the way up on the motor and speedo both. I think that they were gearing failures and flaws in the manufacturing process.

[irocz69]

I don't think that burning motors up was a timing issue. I know I had the timing all the way up on the motor and speedo both. I think that they were gearing failures and flaws in the manufacturing process.
I agree. I wasn't going to get into this, but I went through 2 motors @ OW race & 1 of them never made it to the track. That was definatly a mfg defect. The other motor ran a really strong 4 min practice & came of track @ 140 degrees. I then ran another 2 min practice in the next session & motor slowed dramatically. Rob replaced both motors, which I commend him for, but now 1 of the replacements is not running up to par & it has only been run once since OW race. For all of the racers on here who claim the temp guns read different. ALL my temps were done w/3 different guages & ALL came up w/in 10 degrees of each other, so I dont believe that was an issue. Just an FYI. I ran a Hacker motor from March to Oct. (13.5) & never had a problem till my speedo blew & took the motor w/it. My point being that the same mfg that supplies Losi & Hacker also supplied the OW motors , so they definatly overlooked something in there process of making the OW motors, which im sure will be rectified. I do agree w/some that the Freeze is coming up fast & we need resolve to this problem, but im sure Rob & Todd are on top of this & we just need to be a little more patient. I've been doing this for 25yrs & I know these things take time. Everyone have a HAPPY NEW YEAR & see ya @ the Freeze ! GO FAST TURN LEFT ! Keith Steinle

[Rob Cutman]

Guys,
I have been out of the office since last monday and unfortunately have been without internet until yesterday. We are working on a fix that should be quick and effective as I posted in the previous post. Unfortunately with the holidays it has been a little more difficult to get things ironed out. As stated in previous posts there are a lot of dynamics in play here including the motors that are already out there. It is not an easy fix for us be we will fix it. The freeze is almost 2 months away and the plan we are pursuing should have a reliable motor available within a week or two. Just need to give us a few more days to dot the i's and cross the t's on all of this.

Thanks for your patience.

Rob Cutman

[irocz69]

Guys,
I have been out of the office since last monday and unfortunately have been without internet until yesterday. We are working on a fix that should be quick and effective as I posted in the previous post. Unfortunately with the holidays it has been a little more difficult to get things ironed out. As stated in previous posts there are a lot of dynamics in play here including the motors that are already out there. It is not an easy fix for us be we will fix it. The freeze is almost 2 months away and the plan we are pursuing should have a reliable motor available within a week or two. Just need to give us a few more days to dot the i's and cross the t's on all of this.

Thanks for your patience.

Rob CutmanAll that needs to be said is THANKS ROB. HAPPY NEW YEAR ! Keith S.

[curtisp]

Guys,
I have been out of the office since last monday and unfortunately have been without internet until yesterday. We are working on a fix that should be quick and effective as I posted in the previous post. Unfortunately with the holidays it has been a little more difficult to get things ironed out. As stated in previous posts there are a lot of dynamics in play here including the motors that are already out there. It is not an easy fix for us be we will fix it. The freeze is almost 2 months away and the plan we are pursuing should have a reliable motor available within a week or two. Just need to give us a few more days to dot the i's and cross the t's on all of this.

Thanks for your patience.

Rob Cutman


Thanks Rob! :thumbsup:

Happy New Year!

[Team HHS]

Guys,
I have been out of the office since last monday and unfortunately have been without internet until yesterday. We are working on a fix that should be quick and effective as I posted in the previous post. Unfortunately with the holidays it has been a little more difficult to get things ironed out. As stated in previous posts there are a lot of dynamics in play here including the motors that are already out there. It is not an easy fix for us be we will fix it. The freeze is almost 2 months away and the plan we are pursuing should have a reliable motor available within a week or two. Just need to give us a few more days to dot the i's and cross the t's on all of this.

Thanks for your patience.

Rob Cutman



Thanks Rob. I know you're in a tough spot. Have a good new year.

[KUSTOM-1]

The 13.5 motor I ran in my EDM had the same gearing all weekend. I wish It would have held in there for just another minute in the A-Main. Going from 4th to last was a disapointment. The 13.5 in my Sprint was flawless.


Happy New Year to Everyone :beer:

[terry14]

thanks rob. that is what we have been waiting for:thumbsup:. sorry if i ruffled any feathers.

[rj14]

thanks rob. that is what we have been waiting for:thumbsup:. sorry if i ruffled any feathers.

We have known he was working on things from previous posts. That is what you have been waiting for, because you missed it earlier. I think you owe Rob a feather fluffing, just out of principle.

:)

[terry14]

i didn't miss it earlier. was just looking for an update. i got it. you should too.

[BustedGFX]

yeah.

[rj14]

i didn't miss it earlier. was just looking for an update. i got it. you should too.


interesting

[markny]

should the tracks have gear rule for these motors? or gear range

[sarbubzim1127]

Why dont we just rent spec cars and race them. Less rules more racing.

[rj14]

should the tracks have gear rule for these motors? or gear range

sure, like the tracks don't have enough things to worry about. why not do handout gears while were at it.

No, the answer is to just wait and see what happens. it will all work out just fine. no need to sweat it at this point.

[markny]

bub how much will the spec car be too rent??????


quote=sarbubzim1127;274421]Why dont we just rent spec cars and race them. Less rules more racing.[/quote]

[Razoo]

bub how much will the spec car be too rent??????


quote=sarbubzim1127;274421]Why dont we just rent spec cars and race them. Less rules more racing.[/quote]


Depends if you want a fast one or not!:D

[activethunderrc]

blah blah blah blah blah - lets beat a dead horse - lets make him drink - hey i got an idea - lets let the powers to be figure this out without all this back and forth b/s about spec this and what motor to use now - i'm more then shure that the people who are trying to make this right are under a lot of stress and to read some of the b/s posts on here are making them a little more stressed - so lets chill and give them some breathing room - in the end when its all fixed things will be fine - besides the next race that will use the new dodc rules isnt untill feb - i know what i said may be taken the wrong way by some but its not intended to be directed to anyone at all -

[milkman]

blah blah blah blah blah - lets beat a dead horse - lets make him drink - hey i got an idea - lets let the powers to be figure this out without all this back and forth b/s about spec this and what motor to use now - i'm more then shure that the people who are trying to make this right are under a lot of stress and to read some of the b/s posts on here are making them a little more stressed - so lets chill and give them some breathing room - in the end when its all fixed things will be fine - besides the next race that will use the new dodc rules isnt untill feb - i know what i said may be taken the wrong way by some but its not intended to be directed to anyone at all -
hey activethunder nobody cares about your opinion

[activethunderrc]

Thanks