legality of Converting pullstart TG to non-pull

[aconsola]

I noticed that the .12TG limited motor is $170 for the non pullstart version, but the pullstart motor with the same slide carb and pilot crank is only $130. A non-pull back plate is only $9.

It makes no sense to me that a motor with a $40 pullstart, and $25 one-way bearing somehow costs $40 less than the same motor with a $9 plate.

Anyway, If I buy the cheaper motor and convert it (doing nothing else obviously) is it still legal?

[tmr22]

I don't run in the limited class, but my guess would be no it is not legal. Because you will be altering the engine from original specs. Don't quote me on that but that would be my guess. The rule states that you can not do anything to the engine to alter it from stock form. This will be a question for Rob Cutman to answer for you.

[Mason]

right now there are 30 guys slapping their foreheads and yelling out "DOH!" that you brought this up. i'm thinking simple economics will rule here.

[rj14]

This came up earlier this year on the PA Nitro Tour. It was deemed illegal to convert the motor. The only reason to this was in the past in order to convert pullstarts to non-pulls, you would have to cut the end of the crank off that catches the pull mechanism for the new non-pull plate to fit. This would deem the motor modified thus being illegal. Reason was I believe that you would be taking away from the rotating mass. Thus could be seen as a performance enhancer.

I would be willing to bet $1 that Rob will come back and say no you cannot convert a pull start to a non-pullstart and it still be legal. Buy a pull and run it as a pull. Buy a non- and run it as a non-.

just my pov..

[Mason]

you are right rj. forgot about the nub.

sounds like you tg'rs are up a creek.

[jaybird 52]

wow that is some of the dumbest crap i have ever heard it would not be peformance enhancing cause it would be same as a non pull butt it would definitley be a modification but even though economically is better the rules are the rules!and that would be a stupid one to enforce cause if they are teching you can tell if performance enhancing mods are made or not!!!! if the tech guy is good:ha::ha::mad:

[donnie victor]

Pull start's are hard on your finger's if it is tough to start. Most rules are dumb and thats a real dumb one...:thumbsdown:

[roundman2]

I've been worried about this type of thing since i read the box stock rule. What is to stop a person from putting a tz crankshaft in a tg?? The timming on a tz is way differant from a tg. Next a tz piston sleeve will slide right in. We going to tear down engines everyweek to make sure everyone is running box stock?? Racing is the want to go faster than the outher guy is it not?

[mikejhs82]

Why not just run the pull start ? You dont have to utilize it.The performance I doubt is gonna be any diffferent on the track,in fact a little more left side bias weight might help you.You might have to be creatice on a pipe to clear tires,but these situations bring out the creative side in dirt racing. We love this sport cause you dont just bolt on the next high dollar "go fast part" and think your gonna win. We lead in creativity in our sport cause they dont make stuff just for us..:p

Yes the TZ piston and sleeve might drop right in ,but even to a novice eye, they are completely different,thus easy to tell the difference. No ,you may not be teched every week,but why take the chance. In most situations performance can be enhanced simply by more practice, better chassis setup, and regular maintenance.

Just my $.02

Mike Warner

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

I noticed that the .12TG limited motor is $170 for the non pullstart version, but the pullstart motor with the same slide carb and pilot crank is only $130. A non-pull back plate is only $9.

It makes no sense to me that a motor with a $40 pullstart, and $25 one-way bearing somehow costs $40 less than the same motor with a $9 plate.

Anyway, If I buy the cheaper motor and convert it (doing nothing else obviously) is it still legal?

Hey Doc,

I think if you check around there are LHS's willing to cut a deal on the non-PS TG engines. They can't advertise the lower price due to Retail but are willing to sell at a "better" deal.

;):thumbsup:

[jaybird 52]

SHOULD DO LIKE GOCART MONEY RACES HERE IN OHIO TOP THREE you pull motor and tear down if not you forfeit all points and money and banned two races and for whiners that are gonna say too much hassle should be running open sprint and not have too worry about it!!!:D:beer::thumbsup: and could always do the ump claimer rule at big races. and you can tell difference between TZ/TG if not that person should not be doing tech cause i build some briggs engines for cart racers and depending on what track we are going to and knowing whos teching if we running acompletely legal or rule stretcher!! :checkeredflag: and yes just like karts more practice and better set-ups equal more speed not the horsepower!

[mike1976]

I noticed that the .12TG limited motor is $170 for the non pullstart version, but the pullstart motor with the same slide carb and pilot crank is only $130. A non-pull back plate is only $9.

It makes no sense to me that a motor with a $40 pullstart, and $25 one-way bearing somehow costs $40 less than the same motor with a $9 plate.

Anyway, If I buy the cheaper motor and convert it (doing nothing else obviously) is it still legal?
Anthony,
Get the pullstart version, just keep an eye on the bushing in the backplate for wear. You'll be money ahead...........;)

[Rob Cutman]

As the rule states the motor must be un-modified out of the box, either version. I agree this may not seem to make sense as there is little difference in appearance from the 2 cranks. But, as soon as we start to allow this mod or that mod you start going down a road I dont want to go down. Obviously the rules allow you to replace parts in the motor. So an alternative would be if you have a Non pull motor and need a new motor you could get the pull start, swap the crank and back plate assuming they are still ok and your motor will be perfectly legal by the rules. Havent heard of too many cranks and backplates wearing out I dont think. Sure you still have to have the original non pull model but if you are looking for a replacement this would be a less expensive alternative.

As far as teching goes that is obviously up to the race director. We took apart and teched several motors at last years open wheel race, the late model nats and the top 3 finishers in every ECDOS event this past year. I know Chris also took several apart at the Feb Freeze this year. As long as you have a legal motor too compare too it is very quick and easy to check for any mods. Less than 10 minutes if you want to be very thorough. I realize not all track owners want to go through this all the time, and it may not be necessary all the time. If nothing else some occasional spot checks should be done to help ensure the integrity of the class.

Just my .02

Rob

[Ovaloldtimer]

SHOULD DO LIKE GOCART MONEY RACES HERE IN OHIO TOP THREE you pull motor and tear down if not you forfeit all points and money and banned two races and for whiners that are gonna say too much hassle should be running open sprint and not have too worry about it!!!:D:beer::thumbsup: and could always do the ump claimer rule at big races. and you can tell difference between TZ/TG if not that person should not be doing tech cause i build some briggs engines for cart racers and depending on what track we are going to and knowing whos teching if we running acompletely legal or rule stretcher!! :checkeredflag: and yes just like karts more practice and better set-ups equal more speed not the horsepower!
This statement right here show's that there needs to be Tech on motors, he says he builds Kart motors but and knowing the rule's that almost every track runs WKA, he still builds one that is illegal, what a shame, I'm going to take his name and post, and post this on 4cycle.com for all the ohio racers to see

[donnie victor]

Stretching the rule's is not illegal....

[jaybird 52]

This statement right here show's that there needs to be Tech on motors, he says he builds Kart motors but and knowing the rule's that almost every track runs WKA, he still builds one that is illegal, what a shame, I'm going to take his name and post, and post this on 4cycle.com for all the ohio racers to see
look here oldtimer that was an example and also stretching is not cheating when it will pass tech genuis also we dont run wka cause they dont pay crap but trophies also when for some reason in karting they pay just trophies their out for blood!! so i guess mr completely legal legit rules following oldtimer i guess i should have put on my statement WHEN i USED to MESS with KARTS ENGINES any ways we went to a big race at peach state raceway and passed tech and certain some team from va did not cause of something woreout their ya go beautiful wka rules rules rules also when i did i myself ran open class :mad::tombstone::ha: also bring all the tech you want mine will pass will yours? but it wont happen cause you'll be like most oldtimers and worry about getting home and not do tech ha ha! wow that was funny i dont care who you are that was funny right there if you are gonna run a limited class you gotta tech plain and simple!!!! i have a 12tg non pull you can tech it cause while your teching and whining im cheating i'll be working on my setup and WINNING

[Ovaloldtimer]

Oldtimer means just that been around oval alot of years, and yes my motors will pass tech all 6 of them will, I dont run WKA sanction races but we do run alot of tracks that tech by WKA rules just like every other track that tech's, remember WKA wrote the book, so even if you dont run WKA whatever track you go to uses the rules written by WKA for their tech.
Welch Performance builds our motors out of Maynardville Tenn. and his motors are right to the limit, but no matter if were running a good track or an outlaw track he wont build one thats "Stretching" the rule's he has too much to lose.
Me I had plenty of win's thru out KY til my son got old enuff to run, we started in purple plate all the way thru Stock light 10 years worth 8 chamionships and over 150 feature wins and everyone of them on a WKA stock motor.

[jaybird 52]

Oldtimer means just that been around oval alot of years, and yes my motors will pass tech all 6 of them will, I dont run WKA sanction races but we do run alot of tracks that tech by WKA rules just like every other track that tech's, remember WKA wrote the book, so even if you dont run WKA whatever track you go to uses the rules written by WKA for their tech.
Welch Performance builds our motors out of Maynardville Tenn. and his motors are right to the limit, but no matter if were running a good track or an outlaw track he wont build one thats "Stretching" the rule's he has too much to lose.
Me I had plenty of win's thru out KY til my son got old enuff to run, we started in purple plate all the way thru Stock light 10 years worth 8 chamionships and over 150 feature wins and everyone of them on a WKA stock motor.
hey congrats to you and thats great but anyways i dont really care about karts any more their cool and all but too expensive any more tire bills ridicolous like i said earlier was an example and that they should do tech on limited class R/c racing so it would keep whiners at bay!!!and you should know that the karts/tires wins races not the engine cause the major tire ripping horsepower is not their!!!!!!like my racing mower oh yea v-twin so calm down and good luck and remember those people that do cheat will get caught and bite them in the a_ _ and have fun:thumbsup:end of conversation OK!:checkeredflag:

[plipitkc]

How 'bout them Bears....

Rob, I think the question has been answered.

Thanks

Phil

[RacerX11]

If you looked at Tower hobbies lately, you'll see that 3 of the OS TGs are now 109.99, and yet the slide carb non pull version still cost 169.99. I call this price gouging. . I was going to get a TG Either I'm just going to get the rotary version or it is time to chose a new engine for this class.

Just my two cents.

I am currently running a Dynamite Platinum .12RE in my latemodel and all 3 versions cost 139.99 and I was considering getting a TG to run the limited class. But IDK now

[aconsola]

If you looked at Tower hobbies lately, you'll see that 3 of the OS TGs are now 109.99, and yet the slide carb non pull version still cost 169.99. I call this price gouging. . I

It is now $10 cheaper to buy the pullstart motor($110), plus a non-pull crankshaft($41), and backplate($9) than it is to just buy the non-pullstart motor.

[mikejhs82]

Run the rotary carb version for $110. I hear the rotary carb gives better mid range response anyway..then you dont have to swap any parts at all..bolt it in and go..lol



It is now $10 cheaper to buy the pullstart motor($110), plus a non-pull crankshaft($41), and backplate($9) than it is to just buy the non-pullstart motor.

[RacerX11]

Run the rotary carb version for $110. I hear the rotary carb gives better mid range response anyway..then you dont have to swap any parts at all..bolt it in and go..lol

That settles it. $110 for a TG non-pull Rotary is a deal , and Mid range power is great for oval racing. rotary carbs are easier to tune anyway in my opinion.