National Dirt Oval Rulebook

[Doug Carter]

Some of you may have already spotted the newly listed "Rules" link at the top of the site, and are wondering what this is.

The object is to put together a National set of rules for tracks across the country to follow and adopt, and use as they please. Large series and National events are already in step with the rules, and will become the standard for all classes over time.

This new rules package was a collaborative effort among 11 different people from several different aspects of the dirt oval R/C industry. We are very excited about the potential these rules have to help unite R/C dirt oval racing around the country and allow it to grow to a much bigger and better recognized sport.

These rules have already been adopted by the WDRA, PA Nitro Tour, ECDOS, NSCS, February Freeze and we expect several other series and tracks to be adopting them shortly. We would like to take this opportunity to thank the following people for the hard work and diligence in getting this rules package developed.

Steve Bess - Track Owner
Paul Brauer - Series Director
Sonny Brown - Promoter
Jeff Cisney - Series Director
Rob Cutman - Manufacturer
Brian Dunlap - World of Outlaws
Brock Heffner - Series Director
James Hoover - Series Director
Chris Mckinney - Track Owner
Todd Putnam - Manufacturer
Chad Smith - Manufacturer

Obviously, the rules package is not finished completely or does it contain every class that it eventually will. Hang tight, and you'll see these develop as we move forward towards and into 2009.



Expect some more news soon!

[siggy99x]

Latemodel bodies what about the Winchester body P/N 252 for the electric cars?

[signman501]

Boy is this going to stir up some serious stuff! I like the new rules but could allow some other late model bodies.

[curtisp]

COOL! :thumbsup:

I'm sure that everyone won't like everything in the rules, but it sure is nice to have a set of rules that the dirt oval community can use to hopefully help standardize dirt oval classes nation wide.

I for one would like to thank all of those that were involved with this project and give them a pat on the back before all of the complaining starts.

Here's to you...:beer:

[Rob Cutman]

Regading the latemodel bodies, you need to go back and read the first two sentences of the rules. If a manufacturer would like to have a body approved they can. The guidelines are still being worked out but will be in place in the next few days DON"T PANIC!!:eek:

[BrianD]

COOL! :thumbsup:

I'm sure that everyone won't like everything in the rules, but it sure is nice to have a set of rules that the dirt oval community can use to hopefully help standardize dirt oval classes nation wide.

I for one would like to thank all of those that were involved with this project and give them a pat on the back before all of the complaining starts.

Here's to you...:beer:

Having everyone on the same page is always good plan:thumbsup:

[meangene#1]

Hey that is good news! Maybe this will stop some of the complaints on Dirt Oval.......well then again maybe not. We do need a set of standard rules for this sport of ours. Good luck you guys! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: May the force be with you :D

[hobbyman_7]

Who is going to sell Dirt Oval.com spec motors and lipo batteries? Dirt oval.com? Or will the spec motors and batteries be a specific brand? and/or type?

[Eugene Ryder]

Been wondering why this couldn't have been done years ago. But thanks for doing it now.

I have a question about the sprint wings. 6x6 and NO add on rear spoiler, right? No 1/2" no 3/4"? Notta? Just curious since that has always been the way it was. And I know all the CW guys run at least a 1/2" spoiler. Maybe just an over sight but.....? Thanks

Second, it says no SOLID side panels on sprints ?? What does that mean? Do I have to cut my CW sides in 2-3 pieces now or what? Aren't they one solid piece? Thanks again

ER

[Bulldog_Wally14]

Who is going to sell Dirt Oval.com spec motors and lipo batteries? Dirt oval.com? Or will the spec motors and batteries be a specific brand? and/or type?

LHSs and tracks w/ shops will be able to carry the motors & batteries. Rob can probably elaborate further, but thats the basic deal.

[BrianD]

Second, it says no SOLID side panels on sprints ?? What does that mean? Do I have to cut my CW sides in 2-3 pieces now or what? Aren't they one solid piece? Thanks again

ER
I believe by stating solid the rules are not wanting you to cover the right side window opening with lexan.

[Bulldog_Wally14]

Second, it says no SOLID side panels on sprints ?? What does that mean? Do I have to cut my CW sides in 2-3 pieces now or what? Aren't they one solid piece? Thanks again

ER

I wasn't directly involved w/ the sprinter rules, but I believe that means that you have to cut out the "windows", rather than just leaving them clear.

[JAC9]

Been wondering why this couldn't have been done years ago. But thanks for doing it now.

I have a question about the sprint wings. 6x6 and NO add on rear spoiler, right? No 1/2" no 3/4"? Notta? Just curious since that has always been the way it was. And I know all the CW guys run at least a 1/2" spoiler. Maybe just an over sight but.....? Thanks

I beleive that there will be 1/2 inch rear spoiler on the rear of the center section. I'm pretty sure this is covered in the drawings that are TBA.

Second, it says no SOLID side panels on sprints ?? What does that mean? Do I have to cut my CW sides in 2-3 pieces now or what? Aren't they one solid piece? Thanks again

This is refering to the cockpit area. anything above the hood line (for height) and between the front and rear bars of the four point cage section.

ER


I hope this helps as I have looked at the rules so many times they all make sense to me but I asked plenty of questions too. Keep the questions coming and someone will try to answer it.

Jeff Cisney

[BrianD]

LHSs and tracks w/ shops will be able to carry the motors & batteries. Rob can probably elaborate further, but thats the basic deal.


The local hobby shops selling the DODC spec motors and batteries is one of the really cool things about this program. Buying your motor and battery from your local hobby shop is a great way support those that give you a place to race. Its well thought-out rules like this that will help this program and dirt oval racing grow. When a racer buys his spec motor and battery he know he is buying something at a fair price that will be competitive, not get out dated by the next great thing and he is supporting the sport he will race in and not just a mail order company.

[cobra22431]

Can we get prices on the spec motors and batterys? need to see if I have the cash for this years us open wheel race to run my usual classes

[93TA]

:thumbsup: on no side dams

[hobbyman_7]

BrianD - So basically any 13.5/17.5 and 3200 mah lipo battery we have will not be legal. Your not going to specify an already available motor or battey.

[BrianD]

Can we get prices on the spec motors and batterys? need to see if I have the cash for this years us open wheel race to run my usual classes


I haven’t seen any individual prices on the motors and batteries but on the Openwheel website when you sign up for the class your $135 entry fee includes one of each. Basically a for a racer’s $135 13.5 entry fee at the Openwheel he will leave with a solid brushless motor and battery combination that he can run and be competitive with all of next year. He will also have the peace of mind knowing that when the next great brushless motor or Lipo comes out in February he won’t have to buy it just because it’s the flavor of the week. It’s one of the great things about having unified rules like this.

[glgraphix]

Latemodel bodies what about the Winchester body P/N 252 for the electric cars?
I have been running this Winchester body this year, and it fits the Electric cars perfectly at 9" wide. All of the Electric bodies that are listed are either LESS than 9" or are 10" wide for a Nitro chassis.
PLEASE, we are not asking too much here, I hope, that the list will at least be updated to add the McAllister Winchester 9" #252 to the list.
THANKS for at least considering this body for the list.
I really dont want to have to run a Nitro body, or a body that is so narrow, that the tires stick outside the wheelwells.

I commend everyone involved in the New rules. I am behind the Lipo/Brushless spec deal completely. I think the new rules will grow this sport faster than anything that has been done in years past.

Thanks, Kevin

[Todd Putnam]

Can we get prices on the spec motors and batterys? need to see if I have the cash for this years us open wheel race to run my usual classes

$135 gets you your race entry, DODC Lipo battery and DODC 13.5 Brushless motor for the 2008 USOW Champs - :thumbsup:

[BrianD]

BrianD - So basically any 13.5/17.5 and 3200 mah lipo battery we have will not be legal. Your not going to specify an already available motor or battey.
The motor and battery combinations for the spec classes will be spec DODC products. The idea behind the spec Lipo pack and brushless motor is so that all racers are playing from the same deck of cards. It’s easy to see that the lipo and brushless thing could easily get out of hand with racer’s having to buy what they believe to be the most competitive pack and motor everytime somthing new wins a race. This spec pack is a good solid pack that will remain available over an extended amount of time. When you walk up to the drivers stand you will know that the motor and lipo in your car is the same as every other car on the track

[Sonny B]

Thanks to all involved, this has been needed for many years and should provide the long term stability to help this segment of the hobby grow.

I realize that some rules may initially cause racers (including myself) some personal sacrifice. I hope everyone will keep a positive attitude and be willing to make the necessary changes for the betterment of the sport. :thumbsup:

[Todd Putnam]

BrianD - So basically any 13.5/17.5 and 3200 mah lipo battery we have will not be legal. Your not going to specify an already available motor or battey.

Correct. The motors and batteries are proprietary DODC products and will be available with DODC labels through hobby retailers and tracks that support the DODC format. These will not be a list of currently manufactured/distributed products. :thumbsup:

[pancartom]

hey Wally, nice job except for the EDM body, 17.5/13.5, and lipo rules......:blackflag:

[Todd Putnam]

...It has become apparent after my last 2 replies that Brian types far quicker than I...:thumbsup:

[BrianD]

I have been running this Winchester body this year, and it fits the Electric cars perfectly at 9" wide. All of the Electric bodies that are listed are either LESS than 9" or are 10" wide for a Nitro chassis.
PLEASE, we are not asking too much here, I hope, that the list will at least be updated to add the McAllister Winchester 9" #252 to the list.
THANKS for at least considering this body for the list.
I really dont want to have to run a Nitro body, or a body that is so narrow, that the tires stick outside the wheelwells.

I commend everyone involved in the New rules. I am behind the Lipo/Brushless spec deal completely. I think the new rules will grow this sport faster than anything that has been done in years past.

Thanks, Kevin


The way I read it all that McAllister needs to do is submit his bodies for approval and if they fall within the norm they will be added to the approved body list.

[glgraphix]

The way I read it all that McAllister needs to do is submit his bodies for approval and if they fall within the norm they will be added to the approved body list.
Just PM'ed Gary to get the ball rolling :thumbsup:
Man Brian, this body is the best one I have tried yet. I sure hope they add it!

Great deal on the rules :cool: Its nice to see at least a level playing field for a change.
Thanks, Kevin

[TeamHoagie53]

Where or when will the Track Safety and Race Procedure Guidelines be published?

[Rob Cutman]

Where or when will the Track Safety and Race Procedure Guidelines be published?

They will be posted here on dirtoval.com as soon as they are done. Hopefully within the next week or so.

[siggy99x]

I have emailed Gary also and he said he will get right on it to get his bodies approved

[MRDmotorsports]

Only concern I have for the new rules. If you are on the ineligible list to run limited nitro, why would also be on this list for 13.5 spec electric. I know of one driver who hasn't run electric in quite some time who is interested in running it mostly to get back into electric and secondly it is a cheap way to do so, but is on the list due to his open nitro results....

[cobra22431]

Thanks for the national rules. Its about time the "stock brushed" motor dies. Now new racers can spend time where it counts, setup and driving ability. Time to dump the lathe, mag zapper, motor tuning and building tools and dyno! Thank u thank u thank u!

Please consider this thought for the future. The power differance between a 13.5 and the typical motor run in mod (last years us open wheel) 3.5 is a very big differance. Moving from 13.5 to open mod class 3.5 is a big change. I see you have 17.5 and 13.5, maybe it should be 17.5 and 8.5 or 13.5 and 8.5. That way when you get good in 8.5 and move to mod open the change wont be so drastic. Just give it some thought for the future.

[MiniT21]

Quick question about the cage width on the sprint cars? You have 3.6" as the rule. I went and mesured my buddies havoc and if you measure outside of cage sides its over by a little bit, if you measure inside the cage sides it fits the rules. So are the Havoc's legal or illegal?

[siggy99x]

I sure hope they are I got one on the way there is no reason they shouldnt be!!

[MiniT21]

Well the way i see it, it could go either way. The car sitting in front of me 3.6" falls in the middle of both cage sides, so i guess the holes for cage mounting are 3.6" apart? is that what the rule is?

[Rob Cutman]

I have emailed Gary also and he said he will get right on it to get his bodies approved


Guys I have contacted Gary and we are working on the approved body list. Expect some clarifications in the next few days.

[siggy99x]

What about the HavocSC situation thanks

[curtisp]

Quick question about the cage width on the sprint cars? You have 3.6" as the rule. I went and mesured my buddies havoc and if you measure outside of cage sides its over by a little bit, if you measure inside the cage sides it fits the rules. So are the Havoc's legal or illegal?

I sure hope they are I got one on the way there is no reason they shouldnt be!!


I'm hoping so too. My new, never race JRC Lightning is too wide if you measure the outside. I'm also not sure about the width of the hood on it.

This isn't a complaint, I'm glad the rules are there, but it will stop me from attending the Freeze this year if my new car is illegal because the cage & hood are too wide. (unless there's an easy solution to make it legal)

[siggy99x]

I'm hoping so too. My new, never race JRC Lightning is too wide if you measure the outside. I'm also not sure about the width of the hood on it.

This isn't a complaint, I'm glad the rules are there, but it will stop me from attending the Freeze this year if my new car is illegal because the cage & hood are too wide. (unless there's an easy solution to make it legal)


No needfor a solution these cars have been in production for sometime and should be legal as made!

[kipp]

I like this concept !! Hoods for all edms!! So brushed motors and standard batteries are history?

[glgraphix]

Guys I have contacted Gary and we are working on the approved body list. Expect some clarifications in the next few days.
Rob, thank you very much :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Kevin

[justanotherbrick]

I like this concept !! Hoods for all edms!! So brushed motors and standard batteries are history?Kippy must of paid off Wally as I see the EDM rules start with hood rules! :ha:

[Todd Putnam]

Maximum width of hood: 3.600"
Maximum cage width at driver halo, down tubes, and top frame rail: 3.600"My interpretation of the above rules is that any sprint car with a hood, cage, down tubes or top frame rails that have a width greater than 3.600" is not legal.

[curtisp]

I hate to keep on this and I don't expect an immediate response to my post above, but with a new car sitting here that I am unsure of if it fits the rules or not, I am concerned.

Anyhow, I called a friend that has a Custom Works sprint car and asked him to measure the outside of the cage above the cockpit. His car measured 3.7" So, does that mean that the 3.6" in the rules is an inside measurement? If so, my JRC LIghtning is legal and the Havoc would also be legal. if it's an outside dimension, it doesn't sound like the Custom Works car is legal.

Any help? Anyone else have a Custom Works GBX they could measure?

Thanks!

[siggy99x]

Well it would make no sense to make all these cars illegal thats for sure!!

[Rob Cutman]

Quick question about the cage width on the sprint cars? You have 3.6" as the rule. I went and mesured my buddies havoc and if you measure outside of cage sides its over by a little bit, if you measure inside the cage sides it fits the rules. So are the Havoc's legal or illegal?

Cage and hood width max is 3.6" that is measured to the outside.

This measurement was derived by taking the max width at any point of a full scale sprint car which is 30 inches or 3.0 inches in 10th scale and adding an additional 20% to that dimension to account for scale proportion differences.

[Ovaltraxxas]

Why is DODC in charge of distributing batteries and motors for use in spec classes? You don't see ROAR and IFMAR involved in such things. I can see this becoming a mess in the future.

Why not work with a manufacturer like carpet Legends cars use Trinity spec motors and batteries?

Also, I saw no rule reguarding side dams on late models. Did I miss something?

[siggy99x]

So the only sprint car that is legal is the CW car ? thats just not right were supposed to be bringing the rules together so everyone can race and here we go again outlawing cars because of an 1/8". Back to the old days of the Badgers "oh thats too fast you cant run that the tranny is not available to everyone " SOS

[siggy99x]

NO SIDE DAMS On ANy LATEMODELS :thumbsup: Why is DODC in charge of distributing batteries and motors for use in spec classes? You don't see ROAR and IFMAR involved in such things. I can see this becoming a mess in the future.

Why not work with a manufacturer like carpet Legends cars use Trinity spec motors and batteries?

Also, I saw no rule reguarding side dams on late models. Did I miss something?

[Todd Putnam]

So the only sprint car that is legal is the CW car ? thats just not right were supposed to be bringing the rules together so everyone can race and here we go again outlawing cars because of an 1/8". Back to the old days of the Badgers "oh thats too fast you cant run that the tranny is not available to everyone " SOS

CW, BMS, and Dynotech cars are legal as well-

[siggy99x]

Guess the Havocsc and JRC cars are just to fast then nice way to treat companys that are supporting Dirt Oval racing

[Ovaltraxxas]

I hate to keep on this and I don't expect an immediate response to my post above, but with a new car sitting here that I am unsure of if it fits the rules or not, I am concerned.

Anyhow, I called a friend that has a Custom Works sprint car and asked him to measure the outside of the cage above the cockpit. His car measured 3.7" So, does that mean that the 3.6" in the rules is an inside measurement? If so, my JRC LIghtning is legal and the Havoc would also be legal. if it's an outside dimension, it doesn't sound like the Custom Works car is legal.

Any help? Anyone else have a Custom Works GBX they could measure?

Thanks!

Looks like no one from JRC was on the rules committee. That's why your car is not legal:thumbsdown:

[Ovaltraxxas]

NO SIDE DAMS On ANy LATEMODELS :thumbsup:


:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

I don't care for that. Just because late models are second class in the World of Outlaws doesn't mean they have to be second class in R/C. We've been running side dams for more than 20 years!

[TeamHoagie53]

What's the new Losi Slider measure? I thought about getting one, then eventually converting it to run with the others.

[Todd Putnam]

What's the new Losi Slider measure? I thought about getting one, then eventually converting it to run with the others.


Losi 1/10 Slider legal as well.

[BrianD]

Looks like no one from JRC was on the rules committee. That's why your car is not legal:thumbsdown:

There comes a point where these cars still have to resemble sprint cars. It’s not just the CW car that falls into this, the Dynotech delta car I measured falls within the rules as well. From a rules standpoint 20% is very liberal and all cars should fall within this. If there was not width rule for the sprint car what would stop someone from putting a cage on their late model chassis and running it as a extra wide sprint car? You would gain a ton of extra down force from the surface area on the front of the car but it would come at the cost of even resembling a sprint car. [

If I had a car that didn’t fit the rules I would go to the manufacturer and talk with them about what it would take to fit the car within the rules. Dustin and Mike are good guys, talk to them and work with on a solution.

[terry14]

good job. a standard set of rules WELL in advance for next year. i am sure the chassis manufacturers wil do whatever they can to get their cars within these rules.

[BrianD]

:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

I don't care for that. Just because late models are second class in the World of Outlaws doesn't mean they have to be second class in R/C. We've been running side dams for more than 20 years!



I wouldn’t say that Late Models are second class in the World of Outlaws structure. Within the organization from day one the Late Model Series has been treated as Stock Car equivalent to the Sprint cars.

I guess I don’t really see how not having a piece of lexan as a side dam make a late model second class to a sprint car.

[irocz69]

Hello everyone. I know w/the new rules coming out,this is a good thing for the hobby, but remember this is a HOBBY. Given the hard economic times I feel this is good & bad for some of us. Good in a way that it will make the playing field in 13.5 a little more equal. Bad in a way that all the sponcered & other racers that have already invested there money over this year in equipment to run the above mentioned class will have to spend monies or not be able to promote there sponcers product. I know u cant make everyone happy or come up w/a quick solution to some of these situations, but I know for this racer who is sponcered it will be difficult to enter the 13.5 class. Reason being it just wasn't in the budget to spend 135.00 compared to the 45.00 I allowed for. For those who know me I have for the most part been a stock racer, so I enjoyed racing the 13.5 class after being away for almost 7 yrs. because it was faster than 27 turn or 17.5. I honestly believe there are others out there in the same position. I feel no matter what you do w/the class people are going to find ways to make the motors faster just like they did in the spec 19 turn class back in the day. Dont get me wrong I will probably go to the CW race & run mod because my sponcers want me to, but my heart has always been in the stock side of racing because I felt it was the most competitive class out there. I do believe everyone on the commitee whom alot are friends of mine put there best efforts into this & I commemd them for there efforts. This is just 1 old mans 2 cents. GO FAST TURN LEFT ! Keith S.

[Ovaltraxxas]

I wouldn’t say that Late Models are second class in the World of Outlaws structure. Within the organization from day one the Late Model Series has been treated as Stock Car equivalent to the Sprint cars.

I guess I don’t really see how not having a piece of lexan as a side dam make a late model second class to a sprint car.


Well, you're slowing the class down. Side dams on late models (at least in the eastern midwest and southern states) have been around since at least 1987 when I started racing. It looks a little funny, but it's become a tradition. Taking the side dams away decreases speed and makes the late model classes not as appealing for people who are more interested in pure speed.

[Ovaltraxxas]

There comes a point where these cars still have to resemble sprint cars. It’s not just the CW car that falls into this, the Dynotech delta car I measured falls within the rules as well. From a rules standpoint 20% is very liberal and all cars should fall within this. If there was not width rule for the sprint car what would stop someone from putting a cage on their late model chassis and running it as a extra wide sprint car? You would gain a ton of extra down force from the surface area on the front of the car but it would come at the cost of even resembling a sprint car. [

If I had a car that didn’t fit the rules I would go to the manufacturer and talk with them about what it would take to fit the car within the rules. Dustin and Mike are good guys, talk to them and work with on a solution.


With the hard economic times we're in, with the threat of future tax increases, and with the devaluation of the dollar do Mike and Dustin have the money to design a solution? And if they can design a conversion to make their current cars legal or design a new car altogether do all or most of the people who have a JRC or Havok have the money to buy a conversion kit or new car?

I'm really not trying to pick on you guys. I'm just playing devils advocate hoping there can be easy solutions to these problems. I'm a late model racer anyway

[curtisp]

Guess the Havocsc and JRC cars are just to fast then nice way to treat companys that are supporting Dirt Oval racing


I'm sure the CDK sprinter isn't legal either. :thumbsdown:

I was excited about the new rules package.

[BrianD]

Well, you're slowing the class down. Side dams on late models (at least in the eastern midwest and southern states) have been around since at least 1987 when I started racing. It looks a little funny, but it's become a tradition. Taking the side dams away decreases speed and makes the late model classes not as appealing for people who are more interested in pure speed.

There hasn’t been a Crown Jewel late model race in over 5 years (since well before the Outlaws formed a late model series) that has been run with a side damn

You are right, we have tried to slow the class down. We are trying to slow the Sprint car series down as well. We are doing this for two reasons, one for better racing and two to save costs. Funny thing is those are some of the same reason DODC is taking the side dams off the cars. Its would be hard to argue that there was a better main at the open wheel last year then the limited late model A. The cars are slower and they have less down force. If an open car doesn’t have a side dam the racer wont have to have the hottest moded motor money can buy so he can keep up. When you lock a car down its going to take horse power to win and that costs $$$.

[Bulldog_Wally14]

Well, you're slowing the class down. Side dams on late models (at least in the eastern midwest and southern states) have been around since at least 1987 when I started racing. It looks a little funny, but it's become a tradition. Taking the side dams away decreases speed and makes the late model classes not as appealing for people who are more interested in pure speed.

I bet you can't name 5 1:1 tracks in the entire country that runs late models w/ sideboards on a regular basis...In fact I don't think there is one. Pure speed is not all there is to racing. In fact slower speeds usually lead to closer racing. Unlimited mod cars rarely run side by side or nose to tail....its just hanging on for 4 minutes.

[pancartom]

pancartom (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=2467), Mike Jeffery (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=3899), Ovaltraxxas (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=7955), racer57 (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=4692), BrianD (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=6802), Bulldog_Wally14 (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=2863), irocz69 (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=8364), 93TA (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=2599), terry14 (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=7211), Mason (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=3661), cnyrcer (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=5920), iracercs (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=2222), 712racing (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=5594), ksj44 (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=3800), ptown (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=2151), Todd Putnam (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=2169), DDDONNIE (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=6788), TeamHoagie53 (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=4334), kipp (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=2738), dj12nc (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=5550), teddy (http://dirtoval.com/forums/member.php?u=2292)

lotta people looking here..... this ought to be interesting

[BrianD]

With the hard economic times we're in, with the threat of future tax increases, and with the devaluation of the dollar do Mike and Dustin have the money to design a solution? And if they can design a conversion to make their current cars legal or design a new car altogether do all or most of the people who have a JRC or Havok have the money to buy a conversion kit or new car?

I'm really not trying to pick on you guys. I'm just playing devils advocate hoping there can be easy solutions to these problems. I'm a late model racer anyway

Not saying it would be but if BMS came out with a 5: wide car tomorow and it ended up being an advantage for some reason. Does everyone thats bought another sprint car to this point have the money to replace what they have been running for the last year or two?

[Ovaltraxxas]

There hasn’t been a Crown Jewel late model race in over 5 years (since well before the Outlaws formed a late model series) that has been run with a side damn

You are right, we have tried to slow the class down. We are trying to slow the Sprint car series down as well. We are doing this for two reasons, one for better racing and two to save costs. Funny thing is those are some of the same reason DODC is taking the side dams off the cars. Its would be hard to argue that there was a better main at the open wheel last year then the limited late model A. The cars are slower and they have less down force. If an open car doesn’t have a side dam the racer wont have to have the hottest moded motor money can buy so he can keep up. When you lock a car down its going to take horse power to win and that costs $$$.


Your key phrase was "limited late model A". I have nothing against a no side dam rule in a limited class. But I think in a mod late model class there should be side dams allowed.

[siggy99x]

Love the way the sprint car rules are saving us the guys with the term based sprint cars money our $500 plus cars are useless Thank You

[Bulldog_Wally14]

hey Wally, nice job except for the EDM body, 17.5/13.5, and lipo rules......:blackflag:

Tom,
I know this is going to cause heartburn for a lot of guys who have existing equipment, but you have all winter to use your current stuff up, and then it will always be legal for Modified.

For me it was a hard decision to go w/ the spec concept, but when you sit down and think about it, there are a lot more pros than cons. It will benefit racers and the hobby shops, by not having to stock 5 different types of motors and batts, and then get stuck w/ dead inventory when the next big thing comes out. The battery will not change its internal composition for 1 or 2 years, so racers can be guaranteed not to have to upgrade when the "date codes" improve.

As for the bodies, this is the same basic rules package that has been in place for 2 or 3 years at the Open Wheel race.

[Mike Jeffery]

Dan-
you are exactly right in assuming that Dustin and I weren't on the board. I have been in discussion w/ a board member over the last hour, and he assures me that they are not trying to single us(JRC and GFRP) out. They just didn't have the info on all of the current cars in production, so I gave him my cage specs. and also Dustin and Charlie Danoski's phone numbers in hopes of rectifiying the situation.
Thanks,
Mike Jeffery

[Ovaltraxxas]

I bet you can't name 5 1:1 tracks in the entire country that runs late models w/ sideboards on a regular basis...In fact I don't think there is one. Pure speed is not all there is to racing. In fact slower speeds usually lead to closer racing. Unlimited mod cars rarely run side by side or nose to tail....its just hanging on for 4 minutes.


You're right I can't. Can you name 5 1:1 tracks in the entire country that run foam tires? Foam tire supporters claim that foam tire tracks are faster. So if it's slower speed and more realism you're after foam tires ought to be banned by your rules also.

[Ovaltraxxas]

Not saying it would be but if BMS came out with a 5: wide car tomorow and it ended up being an advantage for some reason. Does everyone thats bought another sprint car to this point have the money to replace what they have been running for the last year or two?

Grandfather current production cars in!! It's that simple. They're already racing against each other at most tracks!!

[siggy99x]

Dan-
you are exactly right in assuming that Dustin and I weren't on the board. I have been in discussion w/ a board member over the last hour, and he assures me that they are not trying to single us(JRC and GFRP) out. They just didn't have the info on all of the current cars in production, so I gave him my cage specs. and also Dustin and Charlie Danoski's phone numbers in hopes of rectifiying the situation.
Thanks,
Mike Jeffery
Thanks Mike hopefully you Dustin and Charlie get this fixed

[Bulldog_Wally14]

Love the way the sprint car rules are saving us the guys with the term based sprint cars money our $500 plus cars are useless Thank You

If we are only talking about 1/8", all you have to do is drill new holes inboard of your current holes on the chassis to bolt the right side of the cage to. Then shorten the cross bars the same distance, and there you are. It should cost you no money and take about 10 minutes.

Problem solved.

Any manufacturer that has built a scale appearing sprint car (which is the most scale of all the DO classes), will not have a problem with the rules.

[Ovaltraxxas]

Dan-
you are exactly right in assuming that Dustin and I weren't on the board. I have been in discussion w/ a board member over the last hour, and he assures me that they are not trying to single us(JRC and GFRP) out. They just didn't have the info on all of the current cars in production, so I gave him my cage specs. and also Dustin and Charlie Danoski's phone numbers in hopes of rectifiying the situation.
Thanks,
Mike Jeffery


Mike-

I really don't have a dog in the sprint car fight. As I said earlier, I'm a late model guy. I'm just playing devils advocate because I want these rules to work and grow our hobby. I don't want anyone to quit racing because something wasn't thought through enough.

[ksj44]

Thanks for putting together a much needed standard set of rules, but I do have some questions. The first one is the electric max car width now the same as nitro or was it left out by accident? 10" seems kinda wide for the electric cars. Also, I dont see anything on nose/top wing sideboard dimensions/heights in conjunction with the wing center section, will these be added? Will the limited sprint class still have chassis manufacturer rules like previous OWC rules? Thanks again.

Keith

[Mike Jeffery]

Yeah Wally just like our EDM bodies are to exact scale?

[iracercs]

Just wanted to know if the side dams on the sprint car are still going to be the same sizes(4"x7" & 3" x 7")?

Do we have to use the stock side panels that come with the stock wing kit or can we make our own like we been doing for years?

I am a big dirtoval fan and the rules are good but for people like me who can't afford to buy or to upgrade to the new systems and batteries.

How are the rules going to effect the direct drive CW cars that we bought years ago?

Are you still aloud to use brushed and nimh in mod?

Just my 2 cents,

Jeff Keller

P.S. sounds like the techmen are going to have one hech of a time at any race.

[siggy99x]

Oh its so easy just drill new holes!!! not so the bodies are made to fit the wing and mounts are all made to fit why should 2 companys that have been producing cars have to throw away everything and change there stuff because of ignorance and thats all this is!!

[terry14]

WOW!!! i missed it the first time. after looking at the very first post i NOW understand why the rules are the way they are. i am sure there was an OBVIOUSE reason that certian manufacturers weren't involved. i don't even have a sprint car and it kinda makes me angry.

[cnyrcer]

If we are only talking about 1/8", all you have to do is drill new holes inboard of your current holes on the chassis to bolt the right side of the cage to. Then shorten the cross bars the same distance, and there you are. It should cost you no money and take about 10 minutes.

Problem solved.

Any manufacturer that has built a scale appearing sprint car (which is the most scale of all the DO classes), will not have a problem with the rules.

could someone explain how a 1/8" "wider" car makes it not "scale appearing" ..just seems to be nit picking...almost seems like they measured these cars so they could make them illegal..but just by a little bit...:blackflag:

[siggy99x]

could someone explain how a 1/8" "wider" car makes it not "scale appearing" ..just seems to be nit picking...almost seems like they measured these cars so they could make them illegal..but just by a little bit...:blackflag:
Exactly right they better get there tape measure out and head to some DIRT mod events because there is nothing even close to scale on the EDM cars

[Team GFRP]

The cages are actually about .5" wider. It is not as simple as drilling new holes. Havoc owners please look in our forum as we have a plan.:thumbsup:

[terry14]

i believe some good points have been made. why is it important for only ONE class to be scale appearing?

[siggy99x]

We should not have to change our cars becuase of politics

[Allan Webster]

Glad to hear the electric sprint I already have is illegal.

I'm even more excited to know that the two new cars I have coming from Dustin are illegal.

Had planned to run all the stock electric class. Did not expect to have to use a spec battery/motor package.

Considering I don't have the priviledge of running the Eastern series year long, to buy stuff that I'll only use there and not be able to promote my sponsors really sucks.

Sure am glad I have good credit so I can buy more stuff.

[terry14]

just out of curiosity, who is supplying the spec motors and batteries? i would like to know what i am buying.

[iracercs]

Yes I agree there are good points but somelike me who can't afford to change everything and hope to compete with with the guys with the sponsor behind them.

Jeff Keller

[RCRACR20]

Tom,
I know this is going to cause heartburn for a lot of guys who have existing equipment, but you have all winter to use your current stuff up, and then it will always be legal for Modified.

For me it was a hard decision to go w/ the spec concept, but when you sit down and think about it, there are a lot more pros than cons. It will benefit racers and the hobby shops, by not having to stock 5 different types of motors and batts, and then get stuck w/ dead inventory when the next big thing comes out. The battery will not change its internal composition for 1 or 2 years, so racers can be guaranteed not to have to upgrade when the "date codes" improve.

As for the bodies, this is the same basic rules package that has been in place for 2 or 3 years at the Open Wheel race.


Wally, those rules are great for the sportsman/Small block guys where spending money might be an issue. However, for the Big Block Classes, it should be open to any 13.5 motor and 5000max 7.4v lipo. I will tell you right now that this class will decrease even farther in entries and Modified will be a larger class.


And a temp limit on the battery? Say for example someone is running a little late on charging, perhaps because they were BS'ing too much with their fellow racers ( I am sure everyone has done this), should he be penalized because his battery is warmer than someone whos battery finished charging 30 min earlier? A voltage limit is understandable, Id even say requiring a lipo sack is alright too, but I think some of you guys need to put lay off whatever drugs you are on.

[Bulldog_Wally14]

Yeah Wally just like our EDM bodies are to exact scale?

I never said they were. A line has to be drawn somewhere. I'm sure it will all get worked out.

[Todd Putnam]

Exactly right they better get there tape measure out and head to some DIRT mod events because there is nothing even close to scale on the EDM cars


Max body width on a 1:1 EDM is 68"
If you add the 20% based on the Sprint Car allowance, that's 81.6"


1/10th scale would be 8.16"- the max body width is 8", so we are actually narrower based on the same rules.

[terry14]

maybe the width, but thats where the similarities stop. any blind man could see that our rc cars look way different than a real one. measure the sides.

[Eugene Ryder]

Ya, you knew it was coming. Next year, we gonna run a 3.35" right rear tire on the sprints? Wouldn't that be scale for a 1/10th scale? With rr tires on 410 cars around here ranging from 102"-105" / 3.14 = 3.35"

Can I still run my Delta shocks? It said, if it's not listed, it's probably illegal. Just curious. Thanks

[Ovaltraxxas]

I still think that the two current sprint cars could be grandfathered in the new rules with a stipulation that any future production kits must fall within the rules as written. I also have a question: If Rob, Todd, and Chad were consulted in writing the rules why weren't Mike and Dustin also consulted?

[siggy99x]

I still think that the two current sprint cars could be grandfathered in the new rules with a stipulation that any future production kits must fall within the rules as written. I also have a question: If Rob, Todd, and Chad were consulted in writing the rules why weren't Mike and Dustin also consulted?
Finally somone gets the point there is no reason that these cars should not have been included when the rules were made!

[Sonny B]

And a temp limit on the battery? Say for example someone is running a little late on charging, perhaps because they were BS'ing too much with their fellow racers ( I am sure everyone has done this), should he be penalized because his battery is warmer than someone whos battery finished charging 30 min earlier? A voltage limit is understandable, Id even say requiring a lipo sack is alright too, but I think some of you guys need to put lay off whatever drugs you are on.


You could charge a Lipo battery at 2-3c and still be well under the limit. (Example all summer I have run a 5000mah pack and charged it immediatly after a run at 10 amps (2c)
at peak it is usually only about 70 degrees or 6-8 degrees above an uncharged pack.


The temp rule eliminates the performance gain from pre heating the battery with a heating pad or rapid chage discharge method. This practice is a little un-safe and destroys the battery in a short amount of time.

It's actually a good thing some sort of control was put in place.

[cnyrcer]

Max body width on a 1:1 EDM is 68"
If you add the 20% based on the Sprint Car allowance, that's 81.6"


1/10th scale would be 8.16"- the max body width is 8", so we are actually narrower based on the same rules.

and what is the measurment of Kevin's sportsman or Ronnie Johnsons BB at the rear/top corner of their sailpanel??

[kipp]

No need for you JRC, CDK and havoc sprint car guys to get you panties in a wad. Im sure the cage width situation will be worked out with no problem. I am also sure nobody did this on purpose.

[Oval-Man]

Scs

[Mason]

Use a control pack and ditch the 70F. Where in the world is it below 70F year round that even races r/c cars? Maybe I'm missing something...???? a lil help from the gallery?

[Todd Putnam]

maybe the width, but thats where the similarities stop. any blind man could see that our rc cars look way different than a real one. measure the sides.

Honestly, they are more to scale than you may think-

-1:1 Max height: 61" + 20%= 73.2" from the ground. This equates to 7.32" for r/c, and we are allowed 7" from the bottom of the chassis.

-1:1 total length is 178" + 20% = 213.6" This equates to 21.36" for r/c, and our total allowable length is 22" (most contemporary EDMs raced are under 21".)

-1:1 total length of door and rear quarter is 138" + 20% = 165.6" This equates to 16.56" for r/c, and the rule is 17" max.

The R/C EDM's are closer to scale and look more realistic now than ever before. :thumbsup:

[teddy]

I never followed the WDRA to enough tracks to be interested in points. I have made it to a few events and enjoyed them. If the WDRA accepts these as rules for 2009 I guess I'll have more days to go fishing.

Bob

[TQ Cells]

I need confirmation on Sprint wing specs ...

6 x 6 ... OK
Left Side panel, 4 x 7?
Right Side panel, 3.25 x 7?
Can 1/2" spoiler be added to center panel?

Steve.

[JASONHastings]

My only question is will their be a cap on fuel in the limited classes?

[terry14]

i am going to try this one last time. who is supplying the motors & batteries?

[smitty]

I just read the post in the Go Fast Race Parts that addressed your sprint car cage situation.

Nice to see that you are trying to work with your customers to try to make their cars conform with the new set of rules that will be used nation wide.

It shows that you understand what the rules are trying to accomplish and what they stand for. Your stand on this situation is commendable and shouldn't go without notice.

Thanks,

Chad Smith

[siggy99x]

I just read the post in the Go Fast Race Parts that addressed your sprint car cage situation.

Nice to see that you are trying to work with your customers to try to make their cars conform with the new set of rules that will be used nation wide.

It shows that you understand what the rules are trying to accomplish and what they stand for. Your stand on this situation is commendable and shouldn't go without notice.

Thanks,

Chad Smith
Well if you guys would have taken all the current cars into consideration just not your own we would not have this problem!!!!!!

[glgraphix]

I need confirmation on Sprint wing specs ...

6 x 6 ... OK
Left Side panel, 4 x 7?
Right Side panel, 3.25 x 7?
Can 1/2" spoiler be added to center panel?

Steve.
Steve, I dont think that has changed at all. Last I talked to Rob, the only thing as far as the wing was concerned was it nolonger could be moved to the Left, it had to be centered over the cage. :thumbsup:
Kevin

[Doug D]

Chad - Can I return the chassis I had ya cut for me......LOL....;)


Wow! These rules are ground breaking, and are way overdue, standardization is a must...:thumbsup:

There will be growing pains but in the long run the hobby will only grow from these rules. Racers need to consider grassroots oval racing as a whole and the 13.5/17.5 with race series only lipo is awesome!

Wonder if pan oval cars will follow suit....

[dirty one]

this is really funny!!!!!! everyone needs to stop bitching & work with the people you need to talk to.rules are rules & everyone has to run by them rules. so get over it. its nice to see a uniform rules. this is were it is going to be all over. no differant rules for other places. rob & crew i give you a thumbs up for that:thumbsup: everyone have a nice day.


dirty one

[jeff@vinyltrix]

Maximum width of hood: 3.600"
Maximum cage width at driver halo, down tubes, and top frame rail: 3.600"My interpretation of the above rules is that any sprint car with a hood, cage, down tubes or top frame rails that have a width greater than 3.600" is not legal.


that just about outlaws the CDK HAVOC AND JRC sprint cars!

[Team GFRP]

I just read the post in the Go Fast Race Parts that addressed your sprint car cage situation.

Nice to see that you are trying to work with your customers to try to make their cars conform with the new set of rules that will be used nation wide.

It shows that you understand what the rules are trying to accomplish and what they stand for. Your stand on this situation is commendable and shouldn't go without notice.

Thanks,

Chad Smith

Chad,

I agree with the whole uniformed set of rules. I do have some issues with how they were brought to my attention. I feel that when the discussion of the sprint cage width was finalized we should have been notified. I currently have about 25 chassis that can't be sold now. Plus I have to do the right thing for my customers and sell them new plates at basically cost. Not to mention all this has to be done rather quickly since the Fall Nationals are less than a month away and a little race called the Open Wheel is about 2 months out.

Thanks for everyones support.:thumbsup:

DM

[dirtsurfer5]

In the 80's, super late models were all over the spectrum. Look at them now. They are the hottest thing out there! Same goes for the sprints in the 70'-80's. Where are they now. On the national stage of dirt racing! This should have been done along time ago. RCDO is in a place right now it could be done. Now, lets go race'n!!

[jeff@vinyltrix]

Finally somone gets the point there is no reason that these cars should not have been included when the rules were made!


you guys keep forgetting the CDK sprints that some of us run.

[Todd Putnam]

dirtsurfer, doug d, dirty one:

Great positive posts- these rules affect most every racer and manufacturer in one way or another, but benefits everyone in the future.

If we don't learn from history, it's bound to repeat itself. None of us want to see dirt oval racing die like pan car and touring car has. This is all based on preventing the same demise that they suffered. :thumbsup:

[Sonny B]

Well if you guys would have taken all the current cars into consideration just not your own we would not have this problem!!!!!!

FYI: I run one of Dustin's cars (actually I have 3 of them). I was well aware when looking at the new rules that my cars would be to wide. But for the long term good I agreed there had to be a spec put in place before it gets really out of hand.

In an early post Rob explained the logic behind the number chosen for cage width. I agree with that thought process and with this rules package.

As I said before we may all have to make some short term sacrifices for the long term good of the hobby.

[jeff@vinyltrix]

FYI: I run one of Dustin's cars (actually I have 3 of them). I was well aware when looking at the new rules that my cars would be to wide. But for the long term good I agreed there had to be a spec put in place before it gets really out of hand.

In an early post Rob explained the logic behind the number chosen for cage width. I agree with that thought process and with this rules package.

As I said before we may all have to make some short term sacrifices for the long term good of the hobby.

they should take into consideration the current cars as well. im all for standard set of rules
but to eliminate cars right off with the first set of rules is not good.

[Mike Jeffery]

To all JRC Lightining Sprint car owners, I'm in the process of redesigning to chassis plates to conform to the new rules, I expect to have then done and in stock by 10/13/08. Sorry for the situation but we are trying to rectify the situation. Please check the JRC forum for updates. And feel free to contact me by phone, pm's, or email.
Sorry and thanks for you continued support,
Mike Jeffery

[BustedGFX]

Its great to see a set of rules that will unify the whole DO comunity, I also feel it is long over due, but I am very happy that they are here non the less. I do however dis-agree with the sprint car rules(much like alot of the others) I have been a long time R/C sprint car suporter/racer and I am probably he biggest pusher on scale realism. I have built my own cars as close to full scale specs as I could with an r/c car just to get the "scale appearence" out of it and I truely love the idea that the scale realism has been taken into consideration. But I do feel that ALL manufactures of sprint cars should have been involved in the discusion on the rules package. I have a JRC lighning myself and have only raced it 1 time and had high hopes on running it all winter and I am sure I can narrow the cage up to meet the rules, scrap the brand new body and top wing, and change whatever else it is I need to, which isnt that big a deal to me personally(especially since, again, I like scale appearing cars) but it does suck that all these car owners and companies selling kits have to re-vamp all there design and set up. And I also feel these cars that are now banned from running in ther current format look pretty nice and to be honest, I really liked the xtra room you have to work on and place things inside the cage. But rules are rules and it is nice to see a set that can be used by almost everyone.

[kipp]

Gene, at least your a happy complainer.;)

[pancartom]

Tom,
I know this is going to cause heartburn for a lot of guys who have existing equipment, but you have all winter to use your current stuff up

how do you use up 2 13.5 and 2 17.5 brushless motors that are basically new now? ANd, 2 SMC 5000 lipos should still be stout enough for the kick off race at RHR.... but no. Now I can't use any of this stuff.

I kinda think it blows, actually.

[hljudd]

I, as well as many others on here, don't feel that it's right for the initial rules package to eliminate a select few chassis manufacturer's car for the sake of standardizing the rules. Who says anyone has to adopt these rules at their local track? You can always tell these guys to go pound sand and make your own rules that eliminates their cars for your rules package. I know this isn't the right attitude to take, but they should have backed up and gave some thought to about how it would affect current production cars before putting them out there. That's where I fault them. When they found out the rules, as currently posted, eliminates some current production cars, they should have amended the rules to allow all current production cars. Next, they should have notified those chassis builders and told them that when their current stock of parts is gone, then they have to start producing cars that fit the rules. This little burp in the rules is going to cost a few chassis builders several hundred, if not thousands of dollars, in wasted material and inventory that they will just have to throw away. Then you have the guys that own these cars. They all will have to go out and buy new chassis plates and cages to fit the new rules. How is this good for the hobby?

[Rob Cutman]

Guys,
Because of my position at Custom Works I have been constantly criticized for rules that we develop to try to keep racing in a box. My motivation has always been to try to do what is best for the majority of racers. Nonetheless, because of this stigma I set out this year to try to get a group of people together to help with this process. I wanted this to be reflective of different aspects of our industry and consist of people from around the country who rely on the R/C industry to make their living.

What we came up with are a set of rules that may not be perfect, but we believe they will do the best job possible to help keep dirt oval racing on a productive path in the coming years. Is it a perfect solution, probably not, but it is what we believe will work. Every person involved had input and will tell you that I was completely accomodating to what they wanted in the rules.

Regarding the sprint car width rules I will tell you again how they came to be. The most liberal width dimension for a full scale sprint car is the hood width that the World of Outlaws just increased to 30". That would be 3" in 10th scale. We added 20% to that for a fudge factor and came up with a maximum width of 3.6". For the record that is almost a full inch wider than the hood on a Custom Works car. If we wanted to be pricks we could have made the rule 3" which would have easily accomodated cars made by CW, BMS, Dynotech, Klein etc.

No one was intentionally singled out on any of these rules. You have to also consider the flip side to this. If a car with a 1" wider hood or 1.5" wider hood if the rules were expanded is an advantage, which it likely is. By allowing that width to continue to get exploited you potentialy obsolete the cars made by manufacturers who have respected the general width of what a sprint car has always been! This forces all of those racers to have to buy new cars. That is certainly not fair either, and no one can deny that!

I also will give Dustin credit here, rather than getting on here and complaining he has already offered a solution that can get everybody on to the next page so we can move forward. That being said I will also tell you that Dustin and I have had several conversations over the last year in which he inquired as to whether or not we would have a width rule for sprints at the open wheel race this year. In every conversation I told him yes but I did not at the time know what it would be. He informed me that he wanted to make a hood mold but needed to know how wide to make it. I simply told him if you keep it inline with the majority of cars that are out there it should be fine. I knew the World of Outlaws were coming out with new rules that would allow for wider hoods and I wanted to account for that and use that for the dimension that we used. That way no one could cry foul! For whatever reason he made a car with a hood that is apparently over an inch wider than most of the sprint car hoods out there. I am not throwing stones at Dustin here. As I said I give him an atta boy for understanding our intentions here and quickly coming up with a solution so that we can all move forward.

I think everyone should take a deep breath and try to look at the positives of some of this as well. The road may be bumpy at the begining but if you really sit down and think about what we are trying to accomplish here as a whole, you may see some of the benefits.

Rob

[4wheeldrifter]

Why not the CW Bloomquist body the most realistic latemodel of all ???:greenflag:

[Rcer19]

..

[Harris03]

how do you use up 2 13.5 and 2 17.5 brushless motors that are basically new now? ANd, 2 SMC 5000 lipos should still be stout enough for the kick off race at RHR.... but no. Now I can't use any of this stuff.

I kinda think it blows, actually.

Im with Tom on these Spec Motors and batteries. The major advantage with these things is that they are usable for so long. Ive got brushless motors that are two years old now that still run great. The batteries that I have now will be the same the batteries that I will be using next summer. I see no reason to clamp down on the batteries. I also dont get why we should not use the motors we have already been using for the last couple of years that are already available from the LHS that already support DO racing. You say that the store owners would get stuck with dead inventory in the future.....what about sticking them with dead inventory now? What about sticking the racers with dead inventoery that we've already bought?

I love the idea of a national rules set, I love the idea of an all brushless / lipo class structure

I hate the idea of totally tossing out everything that Ive been using in brushless racing to date.

Its just like the sprintcar mess up. You didnt keep what we already have and are forcing us to buy more stuff from the "Spec" Choosen few.

It definately Blows!!!

Little O Speedway - One of only a few tracks to have been on the WDRA Series since it began .......will NOT welcome this new motor / battery rule.

The Lil O and all WNY tracks that I help run the races at will stand up for the local racers and assure them that the money they spent on Brushless motors and Lipo Batteries will be well spent and STILL LEGAL FOR 2009

[jeff@vinyltrix]

rob
in regards to the sprint rules I run a CDK sprint and according to the rules the hood meets
the dimension of the 3.6" rule but useing a custom works cage which is 1/4" demension makes it 4".wide outside to outside. im sure this is what eveyones problem is. is the max width measured from the outside to outside of the cage tubeing or inside to inside of the cage tubeing???it does not specify that in the rules.


Maximum Length: 18.000"
Maximum width of hood: 3.600"
Maximum cage width at driver halo, down tubes, and top frame rail: 3.600"
Minimum vertical gap from top of hood to front cage crossbar: .750"
Wing minimum height at leading edge: 5.000" from bottom of chassis

[terry14]

i have been around racing all my life. i agree 100% with a uniform set of rules. it can only make things better. what is wrong is HOW it was done. the decisions by a few will effect many. i have the utmost respect for the men who came up with these rules!! my only concern is the amount of money that the average racer now has to spend to go racing. i think some of the rules should have happened with a little more warning. you can NOT use up your equipment in just a few months. the bad part is nobody will buy your used stuff because everyone is effected by this. my other concern is whats next? we all know where the money will be spent. that part is extremely obviouse. when its all said and done it will be a good thing for everyone, as long as the big fish don't get too hungry too often.

[donnie victor]

Any National rule package in the works for this great class of RC Dirt Oval race car??? I am realy concerned that it seems to have been left out. Everyone is concerned about RC racing. When are they going to deal with the fastest growing class in RC racing. This class needs just as much support or more than the 10th scales. Lets support all of RC racing not just certain classes.

[CDKM]

I agree that there needed to be a nation wide set of rules to continue to grow the sport we all love.
This should help to strengthen Dirt Oval racing in the future.

Any one that has a CDK Sprint send me an email: cdkrcbodies@aol.com
We will do what we can to make your cars legal with the new rules package.

Thanks
Charlie

[Team GFRP]

CW hood width 2.65" Havoc hood 3.2". Our hood is still legal just have to make it a wraparound. Here is my car after modifying it to fit within the new rules. Notice the scale appearing tail tank. The tank is a true 1/10 version of the Saldana Racing Products ST125 25 gallon outlaw tank. I had the 3d model and downsized it.;) Its too bad the decal headers are not legal.

One question I have is on the sprint rules. It says only polycarbonate wings are allowed. Does that mean the Carbon ones I have are illegal??

[BustedGFX]

as far as the polycarbonate wings go for the sprints, does that mean the aluminum centers for the front and top wings made by Barts Parts are now illegal?

[mikeschellracing]

open nitro .12 unmodded. i guess all the guys who bought the rody's, eb mods, rbmods., murnan's etc. wasted your money. or is this just aftermarket mods. i guess the tech guy will have to have every .12 out there to compair the winning motor to just to see if it's been touched, polished etc. i really think this is bad. last year [2007] i went through 4 motors in 2 cars. 2008 i ran modded motors and still running the same 2 all year. no need to run them over lean and burn them up. so it my exp. modded motors are cheaper in the long run. you limited guys, how many motors have you gone through this year. add it up and you could of had a good modded motor. i know one thing if these rules mean i can't run my motors i just got for the open wheel, you can count me out.:thumbsdown:

[bluef250]

<LI type=circle>Open: Any .12 cubic inch engine. un-modified .15 Rtr engines may be used but must utilize stock pullstart or rotostart system.

[Mike Jeffery]

Dustin-
I just got back from the 360 sprints Canadian open and everyone of the Sprint cars had a tail tank like yours, does that mean by the new standard of rules that the customworks tanks are to be deemed illegal?
Mike

[mikeschellracing]

oooooppppppppsssss. sorry about that, might of got a little excited. $800 in new motors that haven't even been raced yet will do that to ya.:eek:

[Rcer19]

Busted, aluminium centers were never allowed at the Open Wheel race

[BustedGFX]

Dustin-
I just got back from the 360 sprints Canadian open and everyone of the Sprint cars had a tail tank like yours, does that mean by the new standard of rules that the customworks tanks are to be deemed illegal?
Mike
good question:D

[hljudd]

open nitro .12 unmodded. i guess all the guys who bought the rody's, eb mods, rbmods., murnan's etc.


I think you missed a period in there which caused you to mis-read the Open Nitro rule.
It says any .12 cubic inch engine. Then it says un-modded .15 rtr engine.

[FULLT1LT]

Busted, aluminium centers were never allowed at the Open Wheel race
This discussion is about national rules not the usow:thumbsup:

[Rob Cutman]

The DODC Spec battery will be a 3200 mah LiPo that is being produced by SMC. This battery is being produced with a gaurantee from the manufacturer that it will remain the same in material and construction for at least two years. This will help alleviate the concern of batteries becoming obsoleteed by new technology. The whole reason for the "SPEC" idea.

The DODC motor is being produced by the same company that currently builds motors for Hacker and Losi. It will be as good or better than most of the current 13.5's on the market. The idea of the "SPEC" motor is to allow tracks the opportunity to actually tech motors to insure they are legal. With the variety of motors on the market it is very difficult for track owners to know what to look for.

As stated earlier these two products will only be available to tracks that use the DODC rules package. We are trying to insure that the tracks that we all race at have an opportunity to benefit from this plan and will not have to worry about being undercut by mail order or part time business. This is a small part of what we are trying to do to insure we all have places to race at in the future!

[hljudd]

CW hood width 2.65" Havoc hood 3.2". Our hood is still legal just have to make it a wraparound. Here is my car after modifying it to fit within the new rules. Notice the scale appearing tail tank. The tank is a true 1/10 version of the Saldana Racing Products ST125 25 gallon outlaw tank. I had the 3d model and downsized it.;) Its too bad the decal headers are not legal.

One question I have is on the sprint rules. It says only polycarbonate wings are allowed. Does that mean the Carbon ones I have are illegal??



Three dimensional scale appearing exhaust headers must appear on both sides of car in “engine area” and be made of round stock or molded polycarbonate (left side of nitro sprint is optional).


Dustin, looks like you still have more work to do to get your cars legal.

[RCRACR20]

The DODC Spec battery will be a 3200 mah LiPo that is being produced by SMC. This battery is being produced with a gaurantee from the manufacturer that it will remain the same in material and construction for at least two years. This will help alleviate the concern of batteries becoming obsoleteed by new technology. The whole reason for the "SPEC" idea.

The DODC motor is being produced by the same company that currently builds motors for Hacker and Losi. It will be as good or better than most of the current 13.5's on the market. The idea of the "SPEC" motor is to allow tracks the opportunity to actually tech motors to insure they are legal. With the variety of motors on the market it is very difficult for track owners to know what to look for.

As stated earlier these two products will only be available to tracks that use the DODC rules package. We are trying to insure that the tracks that we all race at have an opportunity to benefit from this plan and will not have to worry about being undercut by mail order or part time business. This is a small part of what we are trying to do to insure we all have places to race at in the future!


If thats the case, why cant they be distributed by Horizon?

[Team GFRP]

Dustin, looks like you still have more work to do to get your cars legal.

Ya I know I only run them 1 weekend a year.;)

[glgraphix]

The DODC Spec battery will be a 3200 mah LiPo that is being produced by SMC. This battery is being produced with a gaurantee from the manufacturer that it will remain the same in material and construction for at least two years. This will help alleviate the concern of batteries becoming obsoleteed by new technology. The whole reason for the "SPEC" idea.

Rob, do you have an idea if the packs are going to be 20C or 25C?
I would just like to get one from someone else (dif manu) to use until the actual ones are avalible.
Thanks, Kevin

[Rob Cutman]

Rob, do you have an idea if the packs are going to be 20C or 25C?
I would just like to get one from someone else (dif manu) to use until the actual ones are avalible.
Thanks, Kevin


Batteries will be 28C

[jeff@vinyltrix]

rob left you a post and an email thanks

[sprintcarcrazy]

I like to see a nation wide rules package, Thank you goes out to all those who worked hard to put it together.

What scares me about it is all of us racers out here already own batts,motors, and so on.
I hate to see with money so tight for so many of us little guys out here racing that it will put alot of us racing out for good. I think we need to grandfather in the guys with cars deemed illegal, batts motors and so forth for a period of 18 months or so to give people time to work this stuff out. Money is tight for alot of people and racing as we all know is expensive.Not sure about the rest of the country but jobs here are getting thin.

I'm not trying to get everyone stirred up anymore than they already are, just my 2 cents.
I'm also curious about the Bloomer body as well


Steve Davis

[Rob Cutman]

If thats the case, why cant they be distributed by Horizon?

Because Horizon will sell them to anyone, we are doing this to support the tracks who support us. If Redneck wants to use these rules redneck can buy these products. If they dont use the rules than they won't need the products anyway.

[TQ Cells]

Rob, do you have an idea if the packs are going to be 20C or 25C?
I would just like to get one from someone else (dif manu) to use until the actual ones are avalible.
Thanks, Kevin

The SMC 3200 is 28C ... you can find them here and there ... they go fast though.

I'll have some in a couple of weeks.

BTW, I salute the efforts made here (new rules) ... I tend to beleive they're being pressured in a little fast but the big picture look goods. :thumbsup:

Steve.

[Allan Webster]

I too have a question about the carbon wing centers. Is the rule mostly to make it a 3 piece wing rather than 1 piece of lexan?

[Sonny B]

If thats the case, why cant they be distributed by Horizon?

Good question. I’m lucky enough to work for a great company but I know the simple fact is that a lot of the dirt tracks around the country do not have an account, or would not qualify for a Horizon account. We have minimum number of hours a store must be open and a minimum investment and business volume that must be maintained. The requirements have gotten tougher over the last year and the amounts are beyond what most track based business would be able to maintain. Kind of out of my control but I have to trust the managment of our company has a good reason for it.

[Rob Cutman]

I like to see a nation wide rules package, Thank you goes out to all those who worked hard to put it together.

What scares me about it is all of us racers out here already own batts,motors, and so on.
I hate to see with money so tight for so many of us little guys out here racing that it will put alot of us racing out for good. I think we need to grandfather in the guys with cars deemed illegal, batts motors and so forth for a period of 18 months or so to give people time to work this stuff out. Money is tight for alot of people and racing as we all know is expensive.Not sure about the rest of the country but jobs here are getting thin.

I'm not trying to get everyone stirred up anymore than they already are, just my 2 cents.
I'm also curious about the Bloomer body as well


Steve Davis

Steve,
Understand completely and that is the reason for the SPEC motor and battery. After the initial investment all of the worries of keeping up with the rapidly changing technology of brushless and lips will go away.

The earliest these rules will affect anyone will be at the open wheel race in december and we are giving you a $45.00 entry fee, a $85.00 brushless motor and a $90.00 battery pack all for $135.00 if you come to that race. That special price is only being done to help ease this initial investment for the racers.

The next place these rules will be required will be the February Freeze. After that its whenever the outdoor series start racing. So anyone who is not coming to the open wheel race will have 5 months to get ready.

[siggy99x]

FYI: I run one of Dustin's cars (actually I have 3 of them). I was well aware when looking at the new rules that my cars would be to wide. But for the long term good I agreed there had to be a spec put in place before it gets really out of hand.

In an early post Rob explained the logic behind the number chosen for cage width. I agree with that thought process and with this rules package.

As I said before we may all have to make some short term sacrifices for the long term good of the hobby.

For the life of me I can not understand the reason for this cage rule the scale thing is crap when you take the sail panel off the edm and keep the doors behind the front wheels instead of no further then the centerline of the front tires then you can use the scale excuse

[BustedGFX]

what is the reason behind choosing a 3200 batt? I have 2 3200 Orions and I dont feel like they have the best runtime, there great batts, but some other racers have 4900's and they can go the whole night on 1 charge, I get a little over 1 race, certainly wouldnt make 2 4 minute races on 1 charge(this is useing a 13.5). So to me it seems I now need 3 packs, just as if I still ran nimh. Unless these spec packs are dirt cheap, whats the sense? The biggest props for me with the whole lipo thing was the fact that theres hardly any (if at all) upkeep neccesary, at least compaired to a nimh and the run time on a pack like a 4900 is awesome, so why go with a 3200? I am not disputing this, just wondering if I just dont know enough about lipo's, becouse I dont see the point in that decision at all

[Allan Webster]

Cages also are not a constant width from front axle to rear axle. Atleast that is what my g/f is tell me from her midget and her friend's 2 bbl/injected winged sprints. The 30" wide hood is the midpoint of the car. Obviously you wouldn't want to base it off the front or the rear either.

[BustedGFX]

For the life of me I can not understand the reason for this cage rule the scale thing is crap when you take the sail panel off the edm and keep the doors behind the front wheels instead of no further then the centerline of the front tires then you can use the scale excuse
AMEN Lauden

[dylan]

why use a losi brushless not a novak or trinity? also why 3200 and not 5000? i'm just asking wanted to know how these were picked and not others. even sonny b uses novak in his series.

[kipp]

Good question. I’m lucky enough to work for a great company but I know the simple fact is that a lot of the dirt tracks around the country do not have an account, or would not qualify for a Horizon account. We have minimum number of hours a store must be open and a minimum investment and business volume that must be maintained. The requirements have gotten tougher over the last year and the amounts are beyond what most track based business would be able to maintain. Kind of out of my control but I have to trust the managment of our company has a good reason for it.

I dont understand thier reasoning. All the little hobby shops and tracks around the country add up real fast. At least there are smaller distributors that help the smaller shops.

[Allan Webster]

With a 3200 lipo, you are going to be adding way more lead than you would with a 4900. We have a 54 and 60 ounce weight rule. The 60 ounce truck has almost 3 sticks of lead. 3200 are also cheaper than 4900. That could be part of it too.

Like Rob said, you are getting roughtly $160-$170 worth of motor/battery and an entry for only $45. You also probably don't need the higher C rating battery for 13.5 as you would for mod.

[Rob Cutman]

what is the reason behind choosing a 3200 batt? I have 2 3200 Orions and I dont feel like they have the best runtime, there great batts, but some other racers have 4900's and they can go the whole night on 1 charge, I get a little over 1 race, certainly wouldnt make 2 4 minute races on 1 charge(this is useing a 13.5). So to me it seems I now need 3 packs, just as if I still ran nimh. Unless these spec packs are dirt cheap, whats the sense? The biggest props for me with the whole lipo thing was the fact that theres hardly any (if at all) upkeep neccesary, at least compaired to a nimh and the run time on a pack like a 4900 is awesome, so why go with a 3200? I am not disputing this, just wondering if I just dont know enough about lipo's, becouse I dont see the point in that decision at all

Because this is the only Li-Po battery that is being produced with the goal of keeping it the same for several years. The one you buy in 8 months if you want too. Will be the same battery you bought now. All of the other batteries that are being produced will continue to be outdated as soon as they have the ability to increase mah and C ratings. It's already happening.

[BustedGFX]

With a 3200 lipo, you are going to be adding way more lead than you would with a 4900. We have a 54 and 60 ounce weight rule. The 60 ounce truck has almost 3 sticks of lead. 3200 are also cheaper than 4900. That could be part of it too.

Like Rob said, you are getting roughtly $160-$170 worth of motor/battery and an entry for only $45. You also probably don't need the higher C rating battery for 13.5 as you would for mod.
I see the "spec" packs are $90 bucks, unless they perform better then the Orions I have used, which they may-I dont know that they will or wont-, but Id rather spend $150 for a 4900 or a 5000 then $270 for 3 3200's and sticks of lead are next to nothing also, and you can put it were you want. I am just trying to find the sense in this particular rule, not bashing it, again, just trying to make sense out of it

[dylan]

i don't care about a class at the open wheel. but i do care about weekly racing and i have novak and trinity motors and 5000 batteries. i have 0 interest in spec racing. but a number of tracks the wdra runs on are to small for open mod so that only leaves 13.5. now we are back to the question why losi and 3200?

[Bulldog_Wally14]

To address the question of why the 3200 was chosen, read the 1st few sentences here:

The DODC Spec battery will be a 3200 mah LiPo that is being produced by SMC. This battery is being produced with a gaurantee from the manufacturer that it will remain the same in material and construction for at least two years. This will help alleviate the concern of batteries becoming obsoleteed by new technology. The whole reason for the "SPEC" idea.

The DODC motor is being produced by the same company that currently builds motors for Hacker and Losi. It will be as good or better than most of the current 13.5's on the market. The idea of the "SPEC" motor is to allow tracks the opportunity to actually tech motors to insure they are legal. With the variety of motors on the market it is very difficult for track owners to know what to look for.

As stated earlier these two products will only be available to tracks that use the DODC rules package. We are trying to insure that the tracks that we all race at have an opportunity to benefit from this plan and will not have to worry about being undercut by mail order or part time business. This is a small part of what we are trying to do to insure we all have places to race at in the future!

We have all seen numerous "generations" of the 4200 cells, one being better than the last, forcing everyone to run out and buy new ones. Here there is a guarantee that if you buy one today, it will be the exact same pack a year or 2 years from now. None of the other packs could offer that same guarantee.

[MiniT21]

Glad to see Dustin, and the JRC guys making the cars right for the customers at a minimal cost. Kinda sucks it happened this way, but the logic behind the rule makes sense.


:thumbsup: to the HD/GFRP and JRC companies

[dylan]

Because this is the only Li-Po battery that is being produced with the goal of keeping it the same for several years. The one you buy in 8 months if you want too. Will be the same battery you bought now. All of the other batteries that are being produced will continue to be outdated as soon as they have the ability to increase mah and C ratings. It's already happening.


why nothing stays the same. why can't we have just a max capacity and so we can run what we want. why try to dumb down the hobby.

[Bulldog_Wally14]

I see the "spec" packs are $90 bucks, unless they perform better then the Orions I have used, which they may-I dont know that they will or wont-, but Id rather spend $150 for a 4900 or a 5000 then $270 for 3 3200's and sticks of lead are next to nothing also, and you can put it were you want. I am just trying to find the sense in this particular rule, not bashing it, again, just trying to make sense out of it

Unless you are running 3 cars, there is no need to buy 3 packs. When you get finished w/ your heat, just throw it back on the charger. Also notice that we lowered the weight limits by 2 oz from current.

[Bulldog_Wally14]

why nothing stays the same. why can't we have just a max capacity and so we can run what we want. why try to dumb down the hobby.

The point is not to dumb down the hobby. The point is to keep you from having to plunk down $130 whenever the next higher "C rating" battery comes out, which could be monthly at the rate things are going.

[BustedGFX]

Unless you are running 3 cars, there is no need to buy 3 packs. When you get finished w/ your heat, just throw it back on the charger. Also notice that we lowered the weight limits by 2 oz from current.
Sure theres a need for it, I didnt have time to fully charge my packs at the tour race at LA Speedway in between rounds becouse the car count was like 30 something cars and the show moved quickly, but thats my problem I guess

[dylan]

To address the question of why the 3200 was chosen, read the 1st few sentences here:



We have all seen numerous "generations" of the 4200 cells, one being better than the last, forcing everyone to run out and buy new ones. Here there is a guarantee that if you buy one today, it will be the exact same pack a year or 2 years from now. None of the other packs could offer that same guarantee.


so we are letting manufactures get lazy so promotors think they are helping everybody.

[Bulldog_Wally14]

Sure theres a need for it, I didnt have time to fully charge my packs at the tour race at LA Speedway in between rounds becouse the car count was like 30 something cars and the show moved quickly, but thats my problem I guess

I had no problem charging dead-shorted 4600s between rounds at a 6 amp charge rate.

[siggy99x]

Steve,
Understand completely and that is the reason for the SPEC motor and battery. After the initial investment all of the worries of keeping up with the rapidly changing technology of brushless and lips will go away.

The earliest these rules will affect anyone will be at the open wheel race in december and we are giving you a $45.00 entry fee, a $85.00 brushless motor and a $90.00 battery pack all for $135.00 if you come to that race. That special price is only being done to help ease this initial investment for the racers.

The next place these rules will be required will be the February Freeze. After that its whenever the outdoor series start racing. So anyone who is not coming to the open wheel race will have 5 months to get ready.


If we cant make this race due to work commitments can we still get the motor and battery for the 135?

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

Guys,

This thought was pointed out to me a little while ago. These rules are Nat'l rules for Big events... They don't necessarily have a bearing on Local racing which is where most of us are 90% of the time. For most of us who don't go to the bigger races these rules really don't mean much. I know for me locally the rules this year will be the same as next.

Don't get me wrong it's really neat to see the cooperation on a National Level but just as Nascar is different than all the Local Asphalt tracks in this Country. It's only a SMALL part of asphalt racing community as a whole. If you want to spend the $$ to race these events then by all means do so. But for the weekly guys I don't feel much will change...

What do other Track Owners Think??? I know I won't be following the rules locally. My locals can't afford it that's for sure! :thumbsdown:

Not throwing stones, just trying to put this in perspective for weekly racing...

[TQ Cells]

so we are letting manufactures get lazy so promotors think they are helping everybody.

:) :ha: :ha: :ha:

Steve.

[Rob Cutman]

so we are letting manufactures get lazy so promotors think they are helping everybody.

It's about trying to save the majority of racers money over time. The same philosiphy was used in the formation of the Limited Nitro classes in areas where nitro racing is strong. I think most of those racers can tell you the benefits of the spec motor scenario.

[dylan]

The point is not to dumb down the hobby. The point is to keep you from having to plunk down $130 whenever the next higher "C rating" battery comes out, which could be monthly at the rate things are going.


thats racing thats what racers do. racers want to go faster. why would a promoters obsolete racers preexisting stuff. the batteries i have should last for a year or 2 why should i buy less of a battery. that i cant buy unless i find a hobby shop that deals with 2 small distributers. in my area buffalo pretty big city woth a couple of hobby shops. why should they deal with cw or putnam when they can deal with greatplanes or horizon?

you also haven't addressed the losi motor and not a motor that your racers already have.

[curtisp]

2,800+ views...

170+ replies...

all in about 9 hours!

That has to be a new record!!! :D

[JASONHastings]

I think this is a good day for all dirt oval racing because I think we needed one set of guidelines or "rules" I applaud all involved.

[Rob Cutman]

Guys,

This thought was pointed out to me a little while ago. These rules are Nat'l rules for Big events... They don't necessarily have a bearing on Local racing which is where most of us are 90% of the time. For most of us who don't go to the bigger races these rules really don't mean much. I know for me locally the rules this year will be the same as next.

Don't get me wrong it's really neat to see the cooperation on a National Level but just as Nascar is different than all the Local Asphalt tracks in this Country. It's only a SMALL part of asphalt racing community as a whole. If you want to spend the $$ to race these events then by all means do so. But for the weekly guys I don't feel much will change...

What do other Track Owners Think??? I know I won't be following the rules locally. My locals can't afford it that's for sure! :thumbsdown:

Not throwing stones, just trying to put this in perspective for weekly racing...

Maybe your LOCALS would benefit from a cost effective racing program that keeps them from having to buy new motor technology or 40C lips when they come out! Just a thought!

[solly]

thats racing thats what racers do. racers want to go faster. why would a promoters obsolete racers preexisting stuff. the batteries i have should last for a year or 2 why should i buy less of a battery. that i cant buy unless i find a hobby shop that deals with 2 small distributers. in my area buffalo pretty big city woth a couple of hobby shops. why should they deal with cw or putnam when they can deal with greatplanes or horizon?

you also haven't addressed the losi motor and not a motor that your racers already have.

Only the tracks adopting the rules will be selling the batteries/motors. So if you "find" the track you will also "find" the shop.

Does it matter why at this point? The rules have been made.

[dylan]

It's about trying to save the majority of racers money over time. The same philosiphy was used in the formation of the Limited Nitro classes in areas where nitro racing is strong. I think most of those racers can tell you the benefits of the spec motor scenario.


yes it did but we are talking about making an entry level class where there wasn't one. with the electric we here in NY we have an entry level class called small block. and maybe it needs fixing and this can help it is a largest turn out for the wdra. spec racing is for the beginner i don't think it needs to run over into another class. like you guys have it 17.5 and 13.5 you can't run mod at all the tracks the wdra run on just to small.

[dylan]

Only the tracks adopting the rules will be selling the batteries/motors. So if you "find" the track you will also "find" the shop.

Does it matter why at this point? The rules have been made.


thankyou solly i didn't think of that.

[Rob Cutman]

thats racing thats what racers do. racers want to go faster. why would a promoters obsolete racers preexisting stuff. the batteries i have should last for a year or 2 why should i buy less of a battery. that i cant buy unless i find a hobby shop that deals with 2 small distributers. in my area buffalo pretty big city woth a couple of hobby shops. why should they deal with cw or putnam when they can deal with greatplanes or horizon?

you also haven't addressed the losi motor and not a motor that your racers already have.

Your battery will only last a year or 2 if nothing comes out better than that in the next year or 2, which I gaurantee will happen. Why? reread your first sentence, or two.

The Losi motor was chose because it is a good motor and will be competetive for racers that run where DODC rules are not used, a key factor. Also Losi now has a vested interest in dirt oval racing and will not want to do anything to screw it up!

[siggy99x]

It's about trying to save the majority of racers money over time. The same philosiphy was used in the formation of the Limited Nitro classes in areas where nitro racing is strong. I think most of those racers can tell you the benefits of the spec motor scenario.

Please tell all us that own havocs, jrc, cdk sprint cars how your saving us money?

[Rob Cutman]

If we cant make this race due to work commitments can we still get the motor and battery for the 135?


LOL, ok this is the funniest thing I have seen tonight. Lauden has found a reason to embrace this idea. Just kidding with ya. In all serious this is a perfect example of what I was trying to say in an earlier post. These rules arent perfect but beyond what you might think initially a lot of this has been pretty thoroughly thought out by several people. Instead of picking one or two things and complaining about how it may affect you negatively, try to look at every aspect for the benefits. There are benefits for everyone, they just may not jump out right away.

[cryslr300m]

Glad to hear hey have finally came up with a solid set of Rules for Dirt Oval.

I truely hope that the local tracks will also integrate and enforce these same rules as well.

The most fustrating part of Dirt Oval Racing is going to differnt tracks and each one having its own set of rules. If everyone is on the same page than I think more people will be willing to travel because they know what to expect when the walk in the door. They dont have to worry about being "Out bodied", or "Out Winged".

I think this is great, but like others, I am affected as well and will have to invest in some more stuff to make the rules.

I think Mike and Dustin are doing a great job, in coming up with an altrernative approach at a reasonable price.

Thanks,
Bill

[siggy99x]

LOL, ok this is the funniest thing I have seen tonight. Lauden has found a reason to embrace this idea. Just kidding with ya. In all serious this is a perfect example of what I was trying to say in an earlier post. These rules arent perfect but beyond what you might think initially a lot of this has been pretty thoroughly thought out by several people. Instead of picking one or two things and complaining about how it may affect you negatively, try to look at every aspect for the benefits. There are benefits for everyone, they just may not jump out right away.
After just spending 500 and finding out its illegal and the car isnt even in my hands yet> i had to do something before I exploded :D

[Team GFRP]

After just spending 500 and finding out its illegal and the car isnt even in my hands yet> i had to do something before I exploded :D

LOL I wouldn't have spent so much time making sure your car was right had I known about this.;)

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

Maybe your LOCALS would benefit from a cost effective racing program that keeps them from having to buy new motor technology or 40C lips when they come out! Just a thought!

They do have a cost effective racing program. We are still running 27T motors and 3300/3800 batteries! And thanks to the new national rules we'll now have an even larger Used Marketplace to buy up everyones "old stuff" that doesn't conform to the new rules. So in a way I guess these rules WILL in fact help out the local tracks. It will let us buy good stuff at low..low.. prices! ;) :thumbsup:

I do see your point but again my point was that I simply don't think this will catch on at the local level.(at least in my area)

[siggy99x]

And they wonder why im ticked off!! its like buying a new car from a dealer to find out you cant drive that color car in your state you can get it repainted for 3000 so you should be ok with it after spending 30,000!!

So rob you gonna ship my motor, battery andtshirt to me here in PA :beer:

[Rob Cutman]

Please tell all us that own havocs, jrc, cdk sprint cars how your saving us money?

I guess I can't do that. I did however pretty thoroughly explain how this will save money for guys with BMS, CW, Dynotech, Klein and several other cars. Dustin has stepped up to offer a solution to addess the issue that shouldn't be to difficult.

[siggy99x]

I guess I can't do that. I did however pretty thoroughly explain how this will save money for guys with BMS, CW, Dynotech, Klein and several other cars. Dustin has stepped up to offer a solution to addess the issue that shouldn't be to difficult.
yes it looks like crap with the chassis hangin out so I will need another $50 for another chassis to make it right sure it may not be a lot of money to some but it took me time to get money and a lot of time asking questions before buying to make sure something new was not coming out in 6months and making it obsolete and im sure im not the only person with a budget

[kerstetter]

Rob why was offsetting your wing on the sprint car made illegal Just curious

[siggy99x]

Rob why was offsetting your wing on the sprint car made illegal Just curious


Was not SCALE!! I would bet anything thats your answer

[BustedGFX]

Was not SCALE!! I would bet anything thats your answer
LOL!!

[Rob Cutman]

Rob why was offsetting your wing on the sprint car made illegal Just curious


The idea was to help reduce corner speeds and for looks as well. While I seem to be the only one crazy enough to still be up this late answering questions. Remember that all of these rules were created by the consensus of people involved. Inculding some rules I didnt particularly agree with myself but we went with what the majority felt was best. Not that I disagree with the rule but the wing on my car is slapped all the way to left as we speak. I will be moving mine back to the center as well.

Thanks,
Rob

[Team GFRP]

How soon will the motors and batteries be available?? I know how ya feel Rob I've been answering a lot of q's myself...thanks;)

Indications are about 2 to 3 weeks for the inital shipments.

[siggy99x]

Well thats an easy fix lucky you

[Rob Cutman]

Was not SCALE!! I would bet anything thats your answer


LOL, you were half right.

you have a PM

[irocz69]

Rob, u have been a friend for alot of years, but I think what some people are trying to say is this isnt feasable for them to make these changes so soon given the very tough economic times. I also think it peaves alot of racers that 11 people came up w/these rules (not to say there bad) & are trying to dictate how thousands of racers spend there money & some are forced out of a class they enjoy running. Personally I agree this will help w/the future, but w/ 2 mo. till your race its a hard pill to swallow for many that already have equipment to run (13.5) that have to spend the extra monies they do not have, especially so close to the 2 major holidays of the year. As far as the local tracks adopting these rules I have already been told by 1 of our 2 local tracks that are left that they will be running by the national rules. I think w/electric in the state its in this is a risk that might make some that have current motors & batteries get away from it all together. I would really hate to see that happen,even though I also run nitro, electric is still my fav. Like I said in my earlier post, I was away for awhile, but got back into this hobby w/the help of some very good friends & was having fun again, since thats what this hobby is supposed to be all about. Sorry for the news flash but this isnt what I call fun :thumbsdown: ,but for those of us that love to race I guess it is what it is. Right ? STILL GOING FAST & TURNING LEFT ! Keith S.

[siggy99x]

LOL, you were half right.

you have a PM

Who me? i did not get it

[Rob Cutman]

Rob, u have been a friend for alot of years, but I think what some people are trying to say is this isnt feasable for them to make these changes so soon given the very tough economic times. I also think it peaves alot of racers that 11 people came up w/these rules (not to say there bad) & are trying to dictate how thousands of racers spend there money & some are forced out of a class they enjoy running. Personally I agree this will help w/the future, but w/ 2 mo. till your race its a hard pill to swallow for many that already have equipment to run (13.5) that have to spend the extra monies they do not have, especially so close to the 2 major holidays of the year. As far as the local tracks adopting these rules I have already been told by 1 of our 2 local tracks that are left that they will be running by the national rules. I think w/electric in the state its in this is a risk that might make some that have current motors & batteries get away from it all together. I would really hate to see that happen,even though I also run nitro, electric is still my fav. Like I said in my earlier post, I was away for awhile, but got back into this hobby w/the help of some very good friends & was having fun again, since thats what this hobby is supposed to be all about. Sorry for the news flash but this isnt what I call fun :thumbsdown: ,but for those of us that love to race I guess it is what it is. Right ? STILL GOING FAST & TURNING LEFT ! Keith S.

Hey Keith,
I understand completely. As I said in an earlier post, our motivation was long term benefits that can help the sport grow. If these rules werent mandated now more people would have more, different stuff in the next few months and the ability to unify the rules would get even harder. As far as the open wheel race goes we didnt even have a 13.5 class last year and all of the non modified classes were handout brushed motors. This is definitely an improvement in that respect.

Rob

[irocz69]

Night everyone :confused: . Im sure there will be more "Happy" & "INFORMATIVE" reading in the AM :D .

[Rob Cutman]

Who me? i did not get it


hmm, I thought I did

just sent an email

[The Don]

God,
I'll Let All You People Fight Over This.....i Guess I Just Do This For Fun And Enjoyment With My Friends. Good Luck!

[AscotConversion]

Since I race foam tire sedan on carpet, maybe I have a bit of perspective on this that others might not. When Scotty Ernst decided to make the Novak race all brushless last year, it would have saved a lot of money if he had made a spec motor as well. I saw everybody scrambling in the weeks leading up to the race to buy and test all the available 13.5 & 10.5 motors ($$$$$$$$). There were probably 2 brands at that time that I felt were better than the others, but I still had some "slow" motors that work well as fishing weight:(

That being said, will this affect you week to week? Will your track adopt the rules 100% tomorrow? I have a hard time believing that any sane track owner will not allow some lead time to phase in these changes, considering all the hard feelings on this forum right now.

As far as the spec motor and battery, the Hacker 17.5 is probably the fastest available 17.5 out there. That is from back to back testing with other motors, and from several drivers. I do not have the 13.5 motor, but if it is like the 17.5, it will not disappoint. The SMC batteries are also at the top level as well. I was pleased to see that both choices were top quality.


I hope everybody will give the concept a chance.

[Harold R]

In the long term most of the rules package is a good idea in my opinion. I'm sure it took many hours, days, weeks, months on the part of those involved to come up with this package. I don't personally know any of these people real well though I have ran the PA Nitro Tour this summer and they run a very efficient and fun program. Everyone on the rules board should be commended for there time with the intentions of making the hobby better and creating a level playing field.

My two 5400 Lipo batteries are now useless for 13.5 racing. Helpfully I can sell these to someone who intends to run mod. I can live with this because I have seen more battery wars than I care to remember. SMC is a great company and if they can give us an equal product for two years this will be great in the long term.

My two Novak 13.5 motors are now useless as well for dirt oval. Again hopefully I can ebay these and get something out of them. Again we could all see the writing on the wall that a motor of the week issue was sure to develop. I'll live...

Short term the spec idea stings because we need new batteries and motors but the long term benefits will be good for all. We can sell the electronics to those in different forms of racing and at least get something out of it. We'll live...

My beef, like many others, falls with the sprint car rules. I'm normally pretty easy going and try to be positive but the fact that several manufactures' cars are now illegal without representative from those companies being included on the board was not professional and just total BS. I too have a brand new Havoc SC never used with a brand new custom painted body that is useless unless I hack it all to hell. Again I'll live but this is not right.

Hats off to Dustin and the other manufactures involved for already trying to make things right but they shouldn't have to be dealing with this. The post Rob made about the wider body being an advantage makes SOME sense but the fact that everyone owning one of these cars needs to hack it all up is nuts. There has to be a way to take away this debatable advantage without hacking up an entire car.

If the the rules are for the racers why not allow the racers to vote on the rules effecting current produced cars? If you are afraid of an advantage by a wider car why not counter act that by having those cars add more weight? Adding a few ounces to those cars should take away the small advantage a wider body provides and would be much more cost productive to all. Heck I would rather be at a disadvantage then tear up my car.

We can sell our electronics to others in other forms of racing and get something out of it. No one will buy cars, chassis, or bodies that are illegal! We can't sell these to someone in another form of racing. There has to be some way to come to a compromise without spending extreme amounts of money here. Grandfather the current production cars make them add some weight. Then let the manufacture make the next generation car narrower. The money it will cost the manufactures and customers alike is unreasonable in the given time frame.

The bottom line is there has to be a way to compromise without so many people hacking up perfectly good equipment and costing manufactures/customers thousands of dollars. Failure to compromise and making so many cars illegal seems to be showing favoritism to certain companies even if that is not the intention. Rules are rules but these are toys and the big kids playing with them do not have the same wallets NASCAR teams do.

[UltraLine Motorsports]

Nice to see it's open to Companies that support DirtOval.com, this should be great for our sport. :thumbsup:
The DODC Spec battery will be a 3200 mah LiPo that is being produced by SMC. This battery is being produced with a gaurantee from the manufacturer that it will remain the same in material and construction for at least two years. This will help alleviate the concern of batteries becoming obsoleteed by new technology. The whole reason for the "SPEC" idea.

The DODC motor is being produced by the same company that currently builds motors for Hacker and Losi. It will be as good or better than most of the current 13.5's on the market. The idea of the "SPEC" motor is to allow tracks the opportunity to actually tech motors to insure they are legal. With the variety of motors on the market it is very difficult for track owners to know what to look for.

As stated earlier these two products will only be available to tracks that use the DODC rules package. We are trying to insure that the tracks that we all race at have an opportunity to benefit from this plan and will not have to worry about being undercut by mail order or part time business. This is a small part of what we are trying to do to insure we all have places to race at in the future!

[Rob Cutman]

I would just like to reiterate a point made earlier. The first race in which these rules are expected to be used will be the USOWC the second weekend in December. Thats over 2 months away. For those of you who can not make that race you have until the end of February till these rules will affect you. Thats 5 months away. No one is expecting indoor tracks that race through the winter to use these rules on such short notice. Aside from these two big races the next time any track has commited to run these rules is once the WDRA, PA Nitro Tour, ECDOS and NSCS begin racing in the spring or early summer. As has been stated several times the entry fee program put in place for the open wheel race was done just to help ease the sting for the racers that are attending. For $90.00 you are getting a $90.00 battery and an $80.00 motor. These are quality competetive products that will be competetive when you get home even if your local track is not using the DODC rules package.

[Rob Cutman]

Just wanted to let you guys know I will be leaving at 7am this morning for the "King of the Wings" race at Allen's RC in Rochester Illinois. Since I will be traveling all Day please realize that if I am not answering your questions it is not because I am ignoring you, it is because I am driving, or hopefully sleeping. I expect several others will be available on here to help answer any questions that arise. I will get to what I can when I arrive later tonight.

Thanks,

Rob

[pancartom]

for all the WDRA guys, Wally has started a thread in the WDRA section. Maybe we can chime in there as well.

[dylan]

why cant there be an open 13.5 class? there are 2 .12 nitro classes.

[curtisp]

Alright...I have what may be a stupid question...but I'm trying to think of a SIMPLE & INEXPENSIVE way for Havoc SC, JRC Lightning, & possibly CDK owners to make their cars legal. I don't know how wide the CDK is. From what I understand the Havoc SC is about the same width as the JRC Lightning.

Anyhow, looking at my JRC, it is about 1/2" too wide at the cage above the cockpit. The rule states:

Maximum width of hood: 3.600"
Maximum cage width at driver halo, down tubes, and top frame rail: 3.600"My question is "Is the 3.6" dimension at the top of the cage?"

If the dimension will be measured at the top of the cage, would my car be legal by shortening the cross bars at the top of the cage? I tried this last night. I cut new cross bars that are 3.0" long and my cage is now less than 3.6" wide above the cockpit. And, by adding a 3.0" long cross bar at the front of my cage (behind the front shock tower) the downtubes would stay within the 3.6" limit. And, it would be fairly simple to make a new hood that would also fit in the 3.6" size.

If this would be legal, it's a fairly simple fix.

Thanks!
Curt

[Todd Putnam]

i don't care about a class at the open wheel. but i do care about weekly racing and i have novak and trinity motors and 5000 batteries. i have 0 interest in spec racing. but a number of tracks the wdra runs on are to small for open mod so that only leaves 13.5.

Harold R. and Dylan: None of your equipment has been obsoleted. For the weekly races, anyone that doesn't want to race the DODC packages can run their existing equipment in Modified-a class that currently is non-existant on a weekly basis, so you wouldn't be trying to compete against guys currently running 3.5-4.5 turn motors. Since many of the tracks are too small for Open Mod 3.5-4.5 motors, why not run your existing 13.5's and your 5000/5400 packs in the Modified class?

Dylan, if you remember the series race @ Master Hobbies, your fastest lap in Open Mod (4.3) was a tenth of a second slower than the Small Block Stock guy's fast lap (4.2), and two tenths slower than the 19 turn guys (4.1). Even if you run Mod with a 13.5 vs. an Open motor, you may actually be faster.

-Think Billy Decker with his 430ci motor, schooling the 467ci motors, or the Dr. beating the big blocks with a small block...:thumbsup:

[siggy99x]

I think the battery motor deal is great. But till the EDM bodies look real and the spoilers on the latemodel bodies are TO SCALE!! The cages on the sprintcars should all be legal.

[donnie victor]

Chassis, Batteries, Motor's and any other equipment it takes to race 10th scale that has been effected by the new rules. Are the reason I sold all of my electric stuff last year. I can not afford to keep up with innovations to this class. It has made too much of my investments in lathes,brushes,batteries,chargers, etc... worthless. RC racers can not afford to keep up with innovations every six months... So I went to Nitro 8th scales hopefully the RC racing community will help this class survive with a National set of rules so we can continue to grow... I support innovation I just cant afford it. 8th scale Late Models Rule...:greenflag:

[siggy99x]

I think all of us who have sprint cars that are now illegal should stick together and have these rules changed to include our cars. Sorry but this is just not right.

[Todd Putnam]

so we are letting manufactures get lazy so promotors think they are helping everybody.

Dylan,

No, we are helping the racers, tracks and shops for the future. In every form of R/C racing thus far, unlimited motor and battery technology has killed the racing. Before dirt oval suffers the same demise, we decided to do something about it. If we were taking the lazy approach, we would have sat back and watch dirt oval racing implode like pan car and touring car racing has.

Where are pan cars and touring cars now? The only successful pan car racing that exists is Sonny Brown's BRL...and guess what- it has spec rules. Scotty Ernst's IIC touring car race in Vegas has gone to spec rules as well. Both have set the benchmark for successful racing for pan and touring cars.

When Joe's Hobby Shop was still open, how many times did your Dad get left holding old, obsoleted motor and batteries when something new came out? How many times did he hear, "I can get that cheaper from Tower-" This eliminates those very problems.

Maybe had this DODC rules package been introduced years ago, you and your Dad's shop would still be in business- I don't know-but I do know that of the dozens of shop and track owners I have spoken too so far, everyone one of them is on board. :thumbsup:

[Todd Putnam]

Alright...I have what may be a stupid question...but I'm trying to think of a SIMPLE & INEXPENSIVE way for Havoc SC, JRC Lightning, & possibly CDK owners to make their cars legal. I don't know how wide the CDK is. From what I understand the Havoc SC is about the same width as the JRC Lightning.

Anyhow, looking at my JRC, it is about 1/2" too wide at the cage above the cockpit. The rule states:
Maximum width of hood: 3.600"
Maximum cage width at driver halo, down tubes, and top frame rail: 3.600"My question is "Is the 3.6" dimension at the top of the cage?"


Thanks!
Curt

Curt,

Maximum width: nothing can exceed 3.6"- the hood, cage, downtubes or frame rails.

Take your calipers and set them to 3.600". You will need to be able to slide them over the hood, downtubes, cage and frame rails. As long as you can do that, you are perfectly legal.

It looks as if you and Dustin already fixed your cars to meet the rules with minimal effort. Kudos to ya buddy! :thumbsup::beer:

Thanks,
Todd

[curtisp]

Curt,

Maximum width: nothing can exceed 3.6"- the hood, cage, downtubes or frame rails.

Take your calipers and set them to 3.600". You will need to be able to slide them over the hood, downtubes, cage and frame rails. As long as you can do that, you are perfectly legal.

It looks as if you and Dustin already fixed your cars to meet the rules with minimal effort. Kudos to ya buddy! :thumbsup::beer:

Thanks,
Todd


Todd,

Thanks for your reply. Just one more question to clarify your response. Is the measurement taken only at the top of the cage? Or is it taken at the mounting points (where is bolts to the chassis)? I think its the wording "top frame rail" that has me wondering this.

Thanks!
Curt

oops...that was two questions.

[irocz69]

Ok guys w/the JRC sprint car. Im not sure what y'all are using for cages, but when I received mine months ago I fitted it w/a Custom Works cage & I am WELL WITHIN the rules in EVERY aspect. I have seen people on here w/these cars complaining about the rules & I do understand that some expense will be incurred, but for about $60.00 or less depending on who u know u can fit this cage on your exsisting car & be legal. Just trying to help. Keith S.

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

I keep looking for a theme in the new rules package. And the one that seems to be pretty obvious is COST. And keeping it under control. If there isn't any dispute to that then here's my trouble.

The COST to race has gotten out of hand not ONLY with Electronics and batteries but with EVERYTHING involved. What does the average DO chassis COST these days? $400? $500? $600? What is the cost to the racer start from scratch and go Foam tire racing? $200 $300? $400? What is the cost of a decent radio? $150? $250? $350?

From where I see it if you REALLY want to revolutionize DO racing and control COST of racing you need to pick on more areas than just Batteries and Electronics. They are just a Fraction of the BIG PICTURE in reguards to COST.

Personally I think the BEST way control the good old equation of $$$$$ buying SPEED is pretty simple. It's all about the ability to put power to the track. In my opinion if you limit the cars ability to put down power there reaches a point when more power has diminishing marginal returns. With DO moving more towards high-bite clay and foam tires it's allowing the equation of $$$$$ buying speed to increase dramatically! Back in what I consider the GOOD 'Ol days of R/C the surface was the greatest equalizer.

Why is Sedan and Carpet racing dead? because that equation got out of hand. And I see that happening to DO today with high-bite Clay and foam tires.

If the true goal is to in the long run lower costs maybe the rules package should work to curve the costs variable in ALL areas... Not just Batteries & electronics... Heck if the cars weren't going so FAST maybe body areadynamics wouldn't play such a factor!

I know this is my humble opinion but it's WHY I think DO is in such jeopardy... And will suffer the same death as Carpet and Sedan racing if we don't look at the ENTIRE picture. I think spec class racing won't work since it hasn't succeeded in the past. However if you LET people spend whatever they want but use the SURFACE to keep things even you've pleased both sides. The underbudget guy has a fair shot and the guy who wants to spend half his paycheck on TOY can do so.... THE SURFACE gentleman. That is the great equalizer.

[siggy99x]

Do you have any pics ? is your chassis sticking out the side ?

[siggy99x]

Why do the latemodels have a 2.750 rear spoiler when it should only be an 1" max? if were going with the scale thing lets dot across the board

[Breckenridge]

Good job on the new sprint car cage rules. As a fan of full size sprints for over 25 years (yes I am getting old), it's nice to see an effort was made to keep a scale looking appearance on our cars. A 4"+ wide cage and hood is not realistic in scale. They did the right thing by setting the limit at a reasonable number and not forcing themselves to accomodate every car that was out there. What if somebody had a 5 inch hood? Should they have made the limit 5" then? Let's face Our cars are not perfect scale replicas of their full size counterparts, but I think this rule was needed to help keep sprint cars from turning into supermodifieds.

Also as a casual spectator of the EDM classes, I think it would be better if the side panels had to stop at the rear of the front tires and not the center. It would be more realistic and probably slow down corner speeds a little.

[siggy99x]

Good job on the new sprint car cage rules. As a fan of full size sprints for over 25 years (yes I am getting old), it's nice to see an effort was made to keep a scale looking appearance on our cars. A 4"+ wide cage and hood is not realistic in scale. They did the right thing by setting the limit at a reasonable number and not forcing themselves to accomodate every car that was out there. What if somebody had a 5 inch hood? Should they have made the limit 5" then? Let's face Our cars are not perfect scale replicas of their full size counterparts, but I think this rule was needed to help keep sprint cars from turning into supermodifieds.

Also as a casual spectator of the EDM classes, I think it would be better if the side panels had to stop at the rear of the front tires and not the center. It would be more realistic and probably slow down corner speeds a little.

I agree with what your saying but were talking about is less then 1/2" why would you make a rule to outlaw 3 companys cars? when the edm bodies are not scale and the latemodel spoilers are not even close to scale

[radexp]

WHEW!!!

I just wanna race.

[Team GFRP]

I bet you can't name 5 1:1 tracks in the entire country that runs late models w/ sideboards on a regular basis...In fact I don't think there is one. Pure speed is not all there is to racing. In fact slower speeds usually lead to closer racing. Unlimited mod cars rarely run side by side or nose to tail....its just hanging on for 4 minutes...



Wally I challenge you to show me 3 1:1 tracks that run D.I.R.T. Modifieds that have front wheel wells and Windsor Wings. I think this change would make the EDMs look by far better.;)

[cnyrcer]

..



Wally I challenge you to show me 3 1:1 tracks that run D.I.R.T. Modifieds that have front wheel wells and Windsor Wings. I think this change would make the EDMs look by far better.;)

my point exactly...:thumbsup:

[Bulldog_Wally14]

..



Wally I challenge you to show me 3 1:1 tracks that run D.I.R.T. Modifieds that have front wheel wells and Windsor Wings. I think this change would make the EDMs look by far better.;)

That was seriously considered, believe it or not. We discovered that it wasn't as easy as just taking a pair of lexan scissors and lopping the front of the door off on existing bodies....that actually made them look more goofy. It would have required a major body make over...and we weren't ready to do that just yet.

[brockh]

..



Wally I challenge you to show me 3 1:1 tracks that run D.I.R.T. Modifieds that have front wheel wells and Windsor Wings. I think this change would make the EDMs look by far better.;)
if we are going to go there we need to find 1:1 cars that drive around with no drivers in the car, big foam tires, sprints with engines in the left rear of the car...the list goes on and on.... the line had to be drawn...This is what we have right now, this WILL turn into a good thing...people hate change and i understand that but what has been set forth is what you have to work with, conform and have some fun.

[tailslide]

I think It's great to see this happening. it's been long needed.

that being said, i have a question on the sprint rules. i like the new rule to center the wings up because i think they look stupid. I have ran it both ways and it will make a difference in corner speed. But what about offset chassis's? It's obviously an advantage to get the weight to the left. if your going to keep the wings centered, are you going to keep the chassis's centered too? seems the only way to keep it fair. and i've never seen a real dirt car offset before.

[JohnnyLightning]

if we are going to go there we need to find 1:1 cars that drive around with no drivers in the car, big foam tires, sprints with engines in the left rear of the car...the list goes on and on.... the line had to be drawn...This is what we have right now, this WILL turn into a good thing...people hate change and i understand that but what has been set forth is what you have to work with, conform and have some fun.


AMEN ! NUFF SAID

[siggy99x]

That was seriously considered, believe it or not. We discovered that it wasn't as easy as just taking a pair of lexan scissors and lopping the front of the door off on existing bodies....that actually made them look more goofy. It would have required a major body make over...and we weren't ready to do that just yet.

So No rules to make someone go out and redo a $50 body but its ok to make a rule to redo a $500 plus car! Ok now you sound like a **** salesman with a mouth full of samples!!!

[JohnnyLightning]

I think It's great to see this happening. it's been long needed.

that being said, i have a question on the sprint rules. i like the new rule to center the wings up because i think they look stupid. I have ran it both ways and it will make a difference in corner speed. But what about offset chassis's? It's obviously an advantage to get the weight to the left. if your going to keep the wings centered, are you going to keep the chassis's centered too? seems the only way to keep it fair. and i've never seen a real dirt car offset before.


Not trying to get anything started here but, you need to get your tape measure out and measure the front and rear axle on a real sprinter, they are both offset.

[CShearburn]

Not that I disagree with the rule but the wing on my car is slapped all the way to left as we speak. I will be moving mine back to the center as well.

So what measurement or reference is going to be used to determine if the wing is centered? There needs to be a point of reference or a number guideline. "must be mounted so that they are centered on cage" sounds like it has to be exact. Are there going to be templates used?

Yes common sense could and should be used, but if there is no dimension or reference as to what is considered centered, we could end up a 1/4" here, a 1/4" there, and end up pushing the wing slowly further to the left again. And obviously it would be near impossible to be perfectly centered, so I would assume a margin of error would be included?


I keep looking for a theme in the new rules package. And the one that seems to be pretty obvious is COST. And keeping it under control. If there isn't any dispute to that then here's my trouble.

Yes, the next step should be tires. We need less selection, possibly even spec. I feel sorry for all of you that run foams. LOL



...It's obviously an advantage to get the weight to the left. if your going to keep the wings centered, are you going to keep the chassis's centered too? seems the only way to keep it fair. and i've never seen a real dirt car offset before.

As far as the sprint cars go, it would appear that the max cage/chassis width rule has kind of limited how much you can off-set the chassis to begin with. There doesn't seem to be a need for an off-set chassis rule other than offsetting the arms.



For the most part the rules look ok. I do have a few more additional questions:

Why, in the limited and stock sprint classes is there no front wing allowed? Yet, SC guys have to run 3-dimensional headers and not painted/decal headers that many people have (and that look GOOD). I assume the nitpick header rule is for scale appearance/looks, yet front wings aren't allowed on specific SC classes? How many 1:1 SC's don't run a front wing? (not counting the non-wing cars for the sarcastic bunch out there)

Also, in addition to the wing off-set dimension issue i had, I think there needs to be more specific driver window opening rules. "Must have appropriate openings on both sides of cage in driver compartment, forward portion of side panels can be no taller than highest point of hood, no solid side panels." This rule is OK for a placeholder, but opens up way too many grey areas and rule interpretation. Again, dimensions and/or reference points would be nice.

Overall, its a nice step in the right direction! :thumbsup:

[Team GFRP]

That was seriously considered, believe it or not. We discovered that it wasn't as easy as just taking a pair of lexan scissors and lopping the front of the door off on existing bodies....that actually made them look more goofy. It would have required a major body make over...and we weren't ready to do that just yet.


Major make over is exactly what we have to do.:confused: Trust me the changes would be far easier with a set of scissors. They only look goofy because we are used to seeing them a certain way. I have a body with no front wheel wells and everyone out here seems to think it looks better.:thumbsup:

[kipp]

Ok, there are a few sprinters that have to narrow up thier cages. Why do these guys have to push the edm body issue? Will it make you feel better if you push for another class to make changes? You guys knew your sprinter cages were pushing the wide envelope when you built them. These new rules are not perfect but i think they are a positive step foward. I can understand your frustration on the sprint cages but dont start picking on the EDM classes.

[Team GFRP]

Kippy,

I'm not picking on the EDM's, this issue has came up numerous times. I'm simply stating if we as a group are trying to make the cars more scale appearing why did we stop before we made it to the EDM's? Nothing will make it better for me that I have to spend about $2500 to $3000 resolving, redesigning, and eating the current chassis I have on the shelf. I'm not complaining about it. I have been supportive of this whole idea. I'm simply annoyed at the fact that we fixed 2 classes but not 3.

[Breckenridge]

if we are going to go there we need to find 1:1 cars that drive around with no drivers in the car, big foam tires, sprints with engines in the left rear of the car...the list goes on and on.... the line had to be drawn...This is what we have right now, this WILL turn into a good thing...people hate change and i understand that but what has been set forth is what you have to work with, conform and have some fun.

There are two different things you are comparing. There are certain things that have become inherent to 10th scale gas and electric cars....such as the huge ugly muffler on the left side of sprinters, engine heatsinks where the driver's head would be, shock towers made out flat graphite stock, coil springs on sprint cars, foam tires etc. These things cannot be realistically changed. (You could make an argument for tires.)

Then you have bodies, cages, wings etc for which realistic rules can be made to achieve the best possible scale appearance.

Two different things I think.

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

Kippy,

I'm not picking on the EDM's, this issue has came up numerous times. I'm simply stating if we as a group are trying to make the cars more scale appearing why did we stop before we made it to the EDM's? Nothing will make it better for me that I have to spend about $2500 to $3000 resolving, redesigning, and eating the current chassis I have on the shelf. I'm not complaining about it. I have been supportive of this whole idea. I'm simply annoyed at the fact that we fixed 2 classes but not 3.

I would have to agree that the EDM body rules have gotten out of hand from what looks scale. (I will say I don't have a dog in the fight on this one anymore but have to agree that the flip-flopin' bodies look pretty ridiculous.)

I do notice a trend though that EDM's seem to be the next class that is getting less and less attention as are the Nitro Trucks. Wonder if the power at be are about getting rid of the EDM's in the near future??? before long it will be Just the Sprints and the Latemodels in 3 variations... ?

[bumps and jumps rc]

I am all for eliminating edm's - it will make tech much easier ! ;) LOL

I do think we may need to address some truck rules - not that they need changed but at least add them to the rule's

[kipp]

I am all for eliminating edm's - it will make tech much easier ! ;) LOL

I do think we may need to address some truck rules - not that they need changed but at least add them to the rule's
You need a slap!!

[brockh]

There are two different things you are comparing. There are certain things that have become inherent to 10th scale gas and electric cars....such as the huge ugly muffler on the left side of sprinters, engine heatsinks where the driver's head would be, shock towers made out flat graphite stock, coil springs on sprint cars, foam tires etc. These things cannot be realistically changed. (You could make an argument for tires.)

Then you have bodies, cages, wings etc for which realistic rules can be made to achieve the best possible scale appearance.

Two different things I think.
Au contraire my friend, Have you seen any Moody sprint cars? very realistic looking...just not feasable to run on a large scale...things can be done to make them look more realistic, there is a place a line has to be drawn, now everyone knows where that line is. Its black and white...this is legal this is not. We needed this because what was stopping someone from running an 8 inch wide hood on a 1 off sprint car....nothing. Now it is.

As far as the battery and motor stuff, now drivers don't have to come off the stand wondering if it was the driver that beat him or the money that was spent on motor and batteries that beat him, it will be more cost effective.

Those that are pissed that it eliminates different manufacturers in the electric classes, we had the exact same thing in nitro when a "spec" class came about...the guys that run for Novarossi or Sirio didn't make this much noise when the OS tg was the ONLY engine able to be ran in that class....maybe we should take a look at how well those classes did...

give it a chance...this will benifit you in the long run

[hljudd]

I am all for eliminating edm's - it will make tech much easier ! ;) LOL

I do think we may need to address some truck rules - not that they need changed but at least add them to the rule's

I tell you what, if you eliminate EDM's in our area, the NSCS will die. EDM's out numbered Sprints at every southern series stop this year, except for the first one of the year. It would behove the powers that be to cultivate the EDM class in certain areas of the country to help grow DO racing. There are some very high profile sponsored drivers that chose to race EDM's at club races because of the size of the field and the competition the class offers. I do know for a fact if it wasn't for the EDM racing in our area, there are a few sprint drivers that would have stayed home every week instead of coming to the track.

BTW....down here in the south we race EDM's...not floppers.

[terry14]

I am all for eliminating edm's - it will make tech much easier ! ;) LOL

I do think we may need to address some truck rules - not that they need changed but at least add them to the rule's

way to go chris, stir the pot.hahahahaha:thumbsup:

[DigDoug456]

Yes, add the edm rules and make the body's look like the 1:1 cars. EDM has been around in this area for as long as I can remember. If you are going to have rules to make them look realistic for sprints and latemodels you need to do it for EDM's and trucks. How many trucks do you see with side dams and their wheels outside their fenders racing oval? If it is OK for two classes it is OK for the other 2 as well.

[bumps and jumps rc]

now drivers don't have to come off the stand wondering if it was the driver that beat him or the money that was spent on motor and batteries that beat him

Great did you have to point that out
Now we will all be able to see who is getting old and can't see the corners. :eek:

[bumps and jumps rc]

I tell you what, if you eliminate EDM's in our area, the NSCS will die. EDM's out numbered Sprints at every southern series stop this year, except for the first one of the year. It would behove the powers that be to cultivate the EDM class in certain areas of the country to help grow DO racing. There are some very high profile sponsored drivers that chose to race EDM's at club races because of the size of the field and the competition the class offers. I do know for a fact if it wasn't for the EDM racing in our area, there are a few sprint drivers that would have stayed home every week instead of coming to the track.

BTW....down here in the south we race EDM's...not floppers.

just a joke - you know the kind you laugh at

[Rcer19]

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