2008 Classes

[sprinter117]

2008 Classes are:
Limited Late Model
Limited Sprint
EDM
Sprint
Late Model
Truck
Electric EDM 13.5 Brushless


Class rules and more 2008 Details will follow in the next few days

[rj14]

2008 Classes are:
Limited Late Model
Limited Sprint
EDM
Sprint
Late Model
Truck
Electric EDM 13.5 Brushless


Class rules and more 2008 Details will follow in the next few days

A big KUDOS goes out to the Tour Comittee and the Track Operators for bringing in the electric class!!!!!!!!

[siggy99x]

Hopefully lipos will be legal

[brockh]

Hopefully lipos will be legal
2 cel lipos are a go!

[siggy99x]

Awesome

[siggy99x]

any chance of an electric brushless latemodel class with no sideboards?

[ctsieber]

dont you think adding 3 new class' this year is enough?

any chance of an electric brushless latemodel class with no sideboards?

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

LOL.... I hear you on that one Curt... a few steps at a time...

Althought... with the WDRA adding this 13.5 brushless EDM class AND the PA Tour running it... I'm thinking about a double-dip.... I'm anxiously awaiting the rules... *fingers crossed* maybe just maybe they will be close enough to run both!!! :greenflag:

[brockh]

We will have the rules very soon but since the electric class is the class of concern right now.....
any 13.5 motor (ie. novak, lrp, orion, MUST be able to identify 13.5 on can of motor) ANY speed controller.
Any 2 cell LiPo or any 6 cell NiMh
there will be a min weight(refer to USOW rules for weight)
Body rules will mirror USOW rules

[brockh]

any chance of an electric brushless latemodel class with no sideboards?
not this year!!

[Anson Malfaire]

Thanks for making electric EDM's part of the tour. As much as I hate to invest in new stuff, I may have to go brushless.

[signman501]

Thanks for making electric EDM's part of the tour. As much as I hate to invest in new stuff, I may have to go brushless.

Once you go there you'll never go back. Don't buy anything yet as we really have not made final rules yet.

[brockh]

myself and glenn are discussing hard case vs no case lipo....is there a benifit to either? is the hard case safer? is there an after market hard case for already bought non cased lipos?

[brockh]

after some collaboration we are looking at making the electric class up like this....lipos would have to be in a hard case..we spoke of making them limited to 4800 as well.
As far as the motors go we are making the Novak 13.5 a standard and the others like orion, lrp, ans so on will be tested with an inductance meter to be sure that no manufactures motor would give an unfair advantage....so if you have a manufacturer you would like to get tested, make it known.

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

I would like you to test the Traxxas Velineon system and motor. Not only is it affordable by itself ($169) but it's included in the new Traxxas VXL RTR platforms... ie. the Traxxas 2WD Bandit... A platform that with different Tires/Rims and a EDM BODY would be "LEGAL" for the new 13.5 2WD EDM class... This would allow for an affordable platform to bring new blood into the oval scene...

The reviews on this system are excellent. Not only is it almost bulletproof but it can run down to a 3.5 Novak system and will run sensored and sensorless motors so that people who use it in the future can use the ESC when running in an Open or MOD brushless class...

Can you imagine the entry level possibilities??? $300 for a RTR brushless chassis, ~$80 for tires and a body and your racing!?! that's pretty cool if you ask me...

[racer34v]

the traxxass system has more kv than a 13.5

[siggy99x]

very intrested in runing the Orion 13.5 and tekin esc as tekin will have its new sensored esc out by feb. to solve some of the problems they have been having with starts. I think a 3800 hard case limit is plenty of battery.

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

Hey racer34,

yeah. the Velineon is rated a 3500Kv motor while the Novak 13.5 is a 3300Kv motor... but you know as well as I do that Kv ratings vs. their "Actual" output varies between brands and models so Test them up!!! I be you'd find that the Novak 13.5 motors are pretty darn close to the Traxxas motors... So far in field testing there have been mixed results even between different 13.5 Novak systems....

For me. You need to have a test group and see what motors are actually "CLOSE" and then decide on what margin of variance you will allow...Another thing you must do is test same branded models and motors for comparison's between themselves... People are learning just as electric motors of the same make model, etc are different...so are brushless motors... they aren't all the same.... So a "variance" must be in there somewhere...

I just think that to GROW dirt oval a rules package that would allow a platform such as the RTR Bandit VXL to compete would truly help bring more racers to dirt oval...Not to mention Team Losi and others are jumping on the RTR Brushless bandwagon with similar setups and if they are close too... (Again you need actual test data) Just think... This class could truly take off....

The man said:
"if you have a manufacturer you would like to get tested, make it known."

Traxxas Velineon please... :D

[ctsieber]

so wheres all the money for this testing coming from? Are you paying for it?
You guys have been wanting a lipo brushless class, here you go. Just be happy you have your class, and follow the rules, they are there to make it equal.

Hey racer34,

yeah. the Velineon is rated a 3500Kv motor while the Novak 13.5 is a 3300Kv motor... but you know as well as I do that Kv ratings vs. their "Actual" output varies between brands and models so Test them up!!! I be you'd find that the Novak 13.5 motors are pretty darn close to the Traxxas motors... So far in field testing there have been mixed results even between different 13.5 Novak systems....

For me. You need to have a test group and see what motors are actually "CLOSE" and then decide on what margin of variance you will allow...Another thing you must do is test same branded models and motors for comparison's between themselves... People are learning just as electric motors of the same make model, etc are different...so are brushless motors... they aren't all the same.... So a "variance" must be in there somewhere...

I just think that to GROW dirt oval a rules package that would allow a platform such as the RTR Bandit VXL to compete would truly help bring more racers to dirt oval...Not to mention Team Losi and others are jumping on the RTR Brushless bandwagon with similar setups and if they are close too... (Again you need actual test data) Just think... This class could truly take off....

The man said:
"if you have a manufacturer you would like to get tested, make it known."

Traxxas Velineon please... :D

[brockh]

we may have to test as we see them too....robert is working on getting a meter to test the motors to make sure we are being equal to everyone across the board.

[Animal]

Hey racer34,

yeah. the Velineon is rated a 3500Kv motor while the Novak 13.5 is a 3300Kv motor... but you know as well as I do that Kv ratings vs. their "Actual" output varies between brands and models so Test them up!!! I be you'd find that the Novak 13.5 motors are pretty darn close to the Traxxas motors... So far in field testing there have been mixed results even between different 13.5 Novak systems....

For me. You need to have a test group and see what motors are actually "CLOSE" and then decide on what margin of variance you will allow...Another thing you must do is test same branded models and motors for comparison's between themselves... People are learning just as electric motors of the same make model, etc are different...so are brushless motors... they aren't all the same.... So a "variance" must be in there somewhere...

I just think that to GROW dirt oval a rules package that would allow a platform such as the RTR Bandit VXL to compete would truly help bring more racers to dirt oval...Not to mention Team Losi and others are jumping on the RTR Brushless bandwagon with similar setups and if they are close too... (Again you need actual test data) Just think... This class could truly take off....

The man said:
"if you have a manufacturer you would like to get tested, make it known."

Traxxas Velineon please... :D

i would agree for a weekly racing program. not a tour series, or show being put on>

[signman501]

If I am not mistaken the Traxxas unit is a truck line and it is not allowed in the class that we will run as of now. Don't start about adding it later as the electric edm class is a experimental class for 2008. We don't know where it will go and we will see how it does for this year.

Glenn

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

The Traxxas Bandit is a "Buggy". It will fit the rules package the WDRA series has for their 2WD EDM... 9"-11.5" wheelbase, and a max track width of 9.75".... USOW rules are 9.5"-11.5" wheelbase, and a max track width of 10".

Thanks Brockh...

[brockh]

if it fits the min max rules of the usow rules you can pretty much bet on it being legal for the tour.

[terry14]

i will not pretend to know much about brushless , but i have heard from several people that the lrp brushless systems run cooler than the novak. just my thought.

[brockh]

the motor or the speed control?

[shmeedel]

Why would you screw around testing motors? Is Novak a sponsor of the tour??? 13.5 is 13.5 as long as the motor is stamped 13.5 who cares who makes it. If this is the case why would you not spec a standard battery and test all the rest to make sure their not putting out more than the standard???

[terry14]

the motor

[brockh]

Why would you screw around testing motors? Is Novak a sponsor of the tour??? 13.5 is 13.5 as long as the motor is stamped 13.5 who cares who makes it. If this is the case why would you not spec a standard battery and test all the rest to make sure their not putting out more than the standard???
as of right now, no novak is not a sponsor....we just added this class so i will work on getting some sponsor support for electric. we would test the motors simply because the different manufactures may go by different standards. We need to be certain that one manufacturer isn't producing a 13.5 that would be just a touch stronger than another manufacturer's 13.5, thats all. we would not spec a battery on a class we have no idea on how its going to do in its first year and make people buy a 100 dollar battery that they may only get to use 4-5 times.

[brockh]

the motor
thats odd...worth looking into but odd... do you know if the same gearing was used and was there a performance difference that you know of. i know i had a novak 6.5 and i couldn't get heat in that motor to save my live! i geared the piss out of it and the warmest it got was about 60 degrees at bumps...granted it was cool in there but i thought i could pull a little more temp

[shmeedel]

why not pick a non-points day near the end of the year at bumps and jumps, and have a test day?

[brockh]

ok after having a few more conversations, and brainstorming a little, i think any 13.5 will end up being ok because the the novak 13.5 with the sintered rotor will end up being the strongest/ fastest 13.5 you can run.

as for the lipo battery thing i had a concerned track owner let me know that people running a soft case battery may have an advantage knowing if something is going wrong with the battery before it pops to find out like you would with a hard case...

so i will be putting my vote in as to my original post with any 2 cell lipo, any 13.5 motor, any speed control....hey look less tech too, hooray!

i am only 1 vote on the comitee so the others have every right to veto and voice their opinion

[bumps and jumps rc]

I would think that the tour committee might get some additional opinions from the racers before making a hard fast rule. Hint Hint ;) Maybe a poll would be a good idea?

[terry14]

that sounds great brock. i am all for rules. i just don't like the brand specific idea. there are no specific brands for brushed motors. brushless should be the same. make the rules for the size , not the brand.

[needthat22]

u c the set-up chris 13.5 lipo hint hint ;) ;)

[Rcer19]

i think the guys that are going to run the electric class should be very involved in the decision, seeing as how it is "their" money they are spend for the equipment, not the Tours money,
just my .05

[brockh]

i think the guys that are going to run the electric class should be very involved in the decision, seeing as how it is "their" money they are spend for the equipment, not the Tours money,
just my .05
see this is my sediments to the "T". i don't want to tell someone already running a 13.5 class that their speed control/ motor/ battery combo is illegal to run this class and make them spend more money if they want to be involved. i like the KISS method on this class...lets not beat it to death and hurt the turnout.

[Rcer19]

see i like that, you have a good head on your shoulders Grasshopper, lol

[mike1976]

dont you think adding 3 new class' this year is enough?
Nope, more classes = more cars and drivers. :D :thumbsup:

[sprinter117]

I should have the rules ready to post sometime tomorrow. The only rules that will not be ready is the electric class as this debate continues........Brock and Glenn are working on them and are trying to contact the WDRA so the rules sould be either close or the same for us as for them. Keep the feedback coming in:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
-Bill

[Anson Malfaire]

I know almost zero about brushless and lipo. Cost for me is a big factor, as it is for many. Make the rules and tell us what is legal to run. I trust the people involved in the tour will not do what is detrimental. This stuff is too new to me to give an opinion on.
We will be running foams won't we? I do have an opinion on that.

[ctsieber]

no it doesnt. More classes means less cars in each class. More then likely the same # of cars overall.

Nope, more classes = more cars and drivers. :D :thumbsup:

[rj14]

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[rj14]

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[rj14]

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[rj14]

that sounds great brock. i am all for rules. i just don't like the brand specific idea. there are no specific brands for brushed motors. brushless should be the same. make the rules for the size , not the brand.

We are working on that, we don't want this to be a one horse show either.

[rj14]

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[rj14]

..

[brockh]

Not all 13.5's are created equal.......When you buy a HEMI from Chrysler these days it is not a true HEMI. So just because they say it is a HEMI It isn't necessarily so.
so all 27turn motors weren't created equal either....we don't use one motor for stock racing, and we are not doing handouts either....this was a very valid point brought up by a stock racer

[rj14]

so all 27turn motors weren't created equal either....we don't use one motor for stock racing, and we are not doing handouts either....this was a very valid point brought up by a stock racer

It IS a very valid point, I agree. That wasn't a dismissive reply by any means. So i apologize if it read that way.

not all 13.5's are created equal

[needthat22]

i like the 13.5 idea i am all for it. if i couldn't afford to get the spped controller or motor or lipo batterys then i would stay home. i mean nitro racing is about equal. about 200.00 motor and esc set up lipo battery 100.00 300.00 total good fast nitro motor 300.00-500.00. i like my electric just my thought.

[rj14]

here is something to think about for everyone, the following is a list of motors and thier kv rating, plus as of this posting I know of only 2 motors on this list that are available for purchase.

LRP 13.5- 3350kv (not yet available)(adjustable timing on motor)
Tekin 13.5- 2700kv (not yet available)
Trinity 13.5- No information given (not yet available)(also boast adj timing on the motor)
Novak 13.5- 3300kv (locked timing)
Castle Creations 4600- 4600kv (they do not make a 13.5 or stock equivalent nor do they claim to)

kv is roughly the rpms per volt the motor will turn so if your pack puts out 7.4 volts lets look at the #'s-

LRP 13.5- 24,790rpm
Tekin 13.5- 19,980rpm
Trinity 13.5-
Novak 13.5- 24,420rpm
CC 4600- 34,040rpm

[rj14]

ok after having a few more conversations, and brainstorming a little, i think any 13.5 will end up being ok because the the novak 13.5 with the sintered rotor will end up being the strongest/ fastest 13.5 you can run.


Actually with a little more research the LRP 13.5 should be faster when released. Right there if it doesnt come out until halfway through the season (even though it says it should be released this month) we will all have to spend $100 to keep up. So should we budget an extra $100 for the season because before we even hit the track we all know something faster will be comming out.

[Anson Malfaire]

If you're really trying to control cost and create a level playing field, I have no problem with one approved motor. The Novak 13.5 is a fine choice. If something else comes out later on, that's a debate for the next season. This is an experiment, correct? Set rules for 2008 and see how it goes. I honestly don't understand some of this debate. If you don't agree with the rules package you don't run the class, it's that simple. Some who push for a certain variation to the rules won't support the tour and the class anyway so the point is mute.

FIRE AT WILL

[JAC9]

Actually with a little more research the LRP 13.5 should be faster when released. Right there if it doesnt come out until halfway through the season (even though it says it should be released this month) we will all have to spend $100 to keep up. So should we budget an extra $100 for the season because before we even hit the track we all know something faster will be comming out.

Robert,
just relax we are not going to make any decisions on this matter without doing our homework first

BTW the LRP X-11 13.5 is and has been available for a while. Tower has them in stock now and they do not have the Novak in stock.

We hope to have this ironed out within a short time.

Jeff

[rj14]

i have a ton of data here in front of me and mixed up th LRP stuff.....either way i am just giving people the info so everyone can see it.

[ksj44]

I vote lipos and any modified brushed or brushless motors.:thumbsup:

[kipp]

open mod electric:thumbsup:

[Rcer19]

IS Cisney involved with the TOUR?

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

rj14,

I like the way you are looking @ the Kv rating as it relates to the battery voltage in a RPM #... Which is how I look at rating a brushless motor... Here's a thought that hasn't been mentioned that I think should also be looked @ if this is a limited class so to speak with the 13.5 motors...

We all know that people will do whatever they can to get an advantage... Now what is to keep someone from buying a really good matched pack...ie. Whiplash, OHP, or likewise with VERY high voltages... I just cycled one of my 4200 packs and the pack voltage was just a hair under 7.8 volts... under load on my 35A discharger it dropps to just under 7.5volts... And let me say this pack is 2 years old and has been cycled oh probably 70-80 times... I charge it @ 6.5amps normally.

WHat is to say a guy won't buy a HOT and I mean like a $80-$100 pack, charge it @ 6-8 amps (which is too much for LONG life BUT...) and actually have a voltage advantage over the lipo???? I know many have said that Lipo's are a flat and pretty constant voltage and amperage thus we love them so much... but I think a really treaked and pushed Nimh 4200,4300,4600 Nimh would give more juice for the first few minutes and then would drop off to where the Lipo is and maybe even below....

Just a thought.... I have done this w/ my Nimh @ the track and the 4200's seem to have more "punch" than the 7.4 lipo's....especially in the first few minutes. Which as I see it the first few Minutes in a race can be critical....

Thoughts??? Overthinking the idea???

[needthat22]

these things are going to be rocket fast george v. ran stock sprint at bumps with a stock brushed motor and a lipo pack not sure if 2 or 3 cells i think it was 3 and he ran 48 4:00 that is fast he ran the same times from the beginning of the race to the end of the race it was nice to see learning experiance. i just can even seem to think 13.5 brushless lipo edm wow

[thelandman]

George was running 3 cell and the tour will be 2 cell. If you saw the MOD Edm the 2 jeff's were running 2 cell lipo.

[BustedGFX]

If you're really trying to control cost and create a level playing field, I have no problem with one approved motor. The Novak 13.5 is a fine choice. If something else comes out later on, that's a debate for the next season. This is an experiment, correct? Set rules for 2008 and see how it goes. I honestly don't understand some of this debate. If you don't agree with the rules package you don't run the class, it's that simple. Some who push for a certain variation to the rules won't support the tour and the class anyway so the point is mute.

FIRE AT WILL
I agree. it should be fine this year, everyone can look back and decide if anything needs to be changed,if at all, at the end of the season.
I have heard people talk about lipos being flat also as compaired to a good nimh, but its gonna be a learning curve right now, no one will know till the season starts.

[Rcer19]

all the data in the world does not do anyone any good if they can not run in a straight line or not spin out in every corner, :ha: :ha: :ha:

[Rcer19]

It is not my problem if say Novak has a 13x5 and lrp has a 13x5 thats better, if the BOX SAYS 13X5------ THEN IT IS A 13X5 !!!!!!!!!!
now why is that hard for some of you to understand?

[siggy99x]

Why was he running a lipo in stock Chris told m you could not run a lipo in stock!

[bumps and jumps rc]

He was disqualified :o

[sprinter117]

I want to make this perfectly clear to EVERYONE there will be NO name calling in this forum ! If you choose to call people names or bash them I will delete your post!!!!

[BustedGFX]

I want to make this perfectly clear to EVERYONE there will be NO name calling in this forum ! If you choose to call people names or bash them I will delete your post!!!!
Thank you, that post that was made was very un-neccesary

[rj14]

I vote lipos and any modified brushed or brushless motors.:thumbsup:

open mod electric:thumbsup:

The problem with this is that there are maybe 4 or 5 guys that would run the class on a regular basis.

But with the 13.5 there are probably 20 guys that would run the class.

There are a bunch of guys out there that run stock only, but they will be enticed into running the 13.5's.

I mostly run mod stuff w/ electric cars. Given the choice, I would rather run w/ 20 people, rather that 5.

[rj14]

It has been mentioned before and there have been some positive responses-

What are your opinions on this-

any 6 cell nimh up to 4600mah
any 2 cell 7.4v Lipo up to 3800mah in a hard case
LRP Sphere, any Novak Brushless ESC, Castle Creations Sidewinder (to be released)
Any generation Novak 13.5 brushless motor
52 oz. Min. Weight
Tour General rules appy
Use the Nitro EDM body rules- w/ or without hood scoop
Using an Inductance Meter to check legality of 13.5 motor based on Novaks specs BEFORE the days Racing and the top 4 (or 2) in each lower main After thier respective race, and the top 5 after the A-Main. Any motors not meeting the Inductance Meter numbers as set forth by the Novak Charts, WILL result in DISQUALIFICATION from that days racing and will lose all points for the day. Using a 3 strike rule if you are found not in accordance with the motor tech procedure, at the time of your 3rd infraction you will automatically forfeit ALL points earned to that point. And you will be SUSPENDED from THIS CLASS for a peroid of ONE YEAR from the date of the infraction for THIS CLASS ONLY. (each infraction will be documented as well as all the motor readings) If you are served with a SUSPENSION you will be on PROBATION for one year. If at any time during the one year you have an infraction for a motor violation you will be BANNED from THIS CLASS.


These rules would easily carry over to next year, by then more info will be availible and the whole year can be used to research motors for acceptance into the class for 2009.

I would like to hear everyones thoughts on this.......

THIS IS NOT A POST FROM THE PA NITRO TOUR. Nor is it meant or though to be one.
This is a musing from me looking for feedback.....

[bumps and jumps rc]

Why on earth would you limit the mah rating of the lipo?
the discharge cuve of a lipo is almost flat - so there is no advantage in running a 5000 compared to a 3800, except it lasts longer.
The battery lasts long enough to allow people to run two heats without charging - one of the biggest up sides to running lipo in the first place ;)

[signman501]

I like these proposal rules for the 13.5 class. Just let us know what you think. We need your ideas!

[rj14]

Why on earth would you limit the mah rating of the lipo?
the discharge cuve of a lipo is almost flat - so there is no advantage in running a 5000 compared to a 3800, except it lasts longer.
The battery lasts long enough to allow people to run two heats without charging - one of the biggest up sides to running lipo in the first place ;)

The WDRA is looking at limiting the mah on them or spec'ing out the packs. One of the objectives of this class is to be somewhat close to thier rules so we can run each others series without much hassle. Plus whith what I have learned Lipos can do more than what we think, you just have to know what to do. Plus for those still running the NiMh cells, this will cut down in complaining. W/ a 3200mah Lipo you have more than enough runtime and power to play w/the NiMh's on the track without complaints from the haves and have nots.

[dylan]

Why on earth would you limit the mah rating of the lipo?
the discharge cuve of a lipo is almost flat - so there is no advantage in running a 5000 compared to a 3800, except it lasts longer.
The battery lasts long enough to allow people to run two heats without charging - one of the biggest up sides to running lipo in the first place ;)


chris the longer run time is a misconception. they don't have anymore mahr than the other cells unless you go to like the 5000. and on a track like yours you couldn't run for more than one round anyway without giving up performance. on the loose tracks it isn't a problem with running them for more than one round. but you can do that with nimh mow with 13.5 brushless on loose tracks.

[rj14]

chris the longer run time is a misconception. they don't have anymore mahr than the other cells unless you go to like the 5000. and on a track like yours you couldn't run for more than one round anyway without giving up performance. on the loose tracks it isn't a problem with running them for more than one round. but you can do that with nimh mow with 13.5 brushless on loose tracks.

fyi to all- I can't speak for Dylan nor will I attempt to. I have spoken to Terry Brown former owner of Whiplash Cells. Anything I post in reguards to Lipos I post from information I have gathered from direct conversation with Mr. Brown as well as conversations held w/ Dylan (who has spoken to Terry at greater length than I) as well as other sources close to this situation. I have no definitive word nor will I claim to, concearning Lipos. To Quote Terry, "this appears to be the future of this hobby". We are learning and will continue to learn and as the demand for these type of batteries go up for this hobby, what we say now, may not hold true for the future. A good example of this are the current IB4200's. When the demand went up, the quality went down. So we need to keep this in mind for the future. That may be the reason for some of the logic behind the rules now and in the future.

[bumps and jumps rc]

The price difference for a 3200 compared to a 4900 is $20. I am not going to buy a 3200. Would you? I can tell you we have sold 10 trackpower 4900 and the orion 3200 has been sitting in the case. Other manufacturers have lipo's coming out that are even going to be cheaper - losi has one due in march proabably about $75 for a 4500. Seems like a rule with no benefit. What happens if someone takes the sticker off the 4500 - how will you know what the battery is? They aren't wrapped from the factory like a nimh. I think you should let it go for the first year - you will hurt the class before it even takes off.

[rj14]

The price difference for a 3200 compared to a 4900 is $20. I am not going to buy a 3200. Would you? Other manufacturers have lipo's coming out that are even going to be cheaper - losi has one due in march proabably about $75 for a 4500. Seems like a rule with no benefit. What happens if someone takes the sticker off the 4500 - how will you know what the battery is? They aren't wrapped from the factory like a nimh. I think you should let it go for the first year - you will hurt the class before it even takes off.


Right now Trinity has one that is a 4600 for $89, This should help drop the prices of other already out there. (business competition 101) The point is really to get a set of rules for this year. And look at it over the course of the year and re-evaluate at the end of the summer for next year. For all we know we may not have enough participation to run again next year. And as we speak the new head of ROAR is setting up to test and try to make a run at standardizing rules and specs concearning brushless motors. I say set it at one motor for THIS YEAR and let someone else do the r&d work for us. Saves us headaches and $$ in the end.

As for labels of batts, They are pretty distinguishable form the outside on the shape of the cases. Plus a rule can be made that the manufacturers sticker must be visible on the pack. That is why I say stick w/ the hard cased ones. The shape and color of the case on the Trinity is different from the Peak/Orion and likewise to the others. If we allowed the "soft packs" it would be even harder to police. Yes I would buy the 3200 because if it is all that is allowed for another series I intend to run and it will work just fine for the Tour, then i will.

I am not like others when it comes to only running at one track or series. I realize if I am to get better I need to go out of my "playground" and run with other series and tracks.

[dylan]

it is not the fault of the promoter that racers and shops bought or sold batteries before the rules came out. it is just an unlucky thing that happened. as rj14 said the nimh were good before the manufactures started upping the performance this is just what this rule is trying to prevent is unsafe conditions.

[Anson Malfaire]

Those were my sentiments dylan. I know so little about bl/lipo to give a solid opinion but I've held off purchasing anything until concrete rules come about. Although as I posted before I have no problem with re-evaluating this at seasons end. I would really like to support the Nitro Tour for this class, I just want to know what's legal.
One question though: I was put under the impression batteries weren't a big advantage one way or the other with bl due to the efficiency of the system. IF that's true, is it a real concern what the ratings are? I still have good Nimh's that I plan to run. I'd like to know more.

[rj14]

Those were my sentiments dylan. I know so little about bl/lipo to give a solid opinion but I've held off purchasing anything until concrete rules come about. Although as I posted before I have no problem with re-evaluating this at seasons end. I would really like to support the Nitro Tour for this class, I just want to know what's legal.
One question though: I was put under the impression batteries weren't a big advantage one way or the other with bl due to the efficiency of the system. IF that's true, is it a real concern what the ratings are? I still have good Nimh's that I plan to run. I'd like to know more.

From what I have learned, if you are brave and know what to do, a Lipo can flat blow away the NiMh. (hint: think safety here) W/ the 13.5 runtime is not an issue w/ either batts (my opinion here). the 3200's are as close in performance to a good set of 4200's that I have heard of. The other side of it, and nobody has said anything about it. Why only allow up to 4600 mah NiMh's? Because that is the standardly accepted limit. I feel that if we limit the NiMh's then we should limit the Lipo's to be fair. It is just that simple. It allows the guy w/ perfectly good and working 4200's and 4600's Like yourself to not have to go out and buy Lipos right away after forking out the $$ for the motor and esc. This way you don't feel as though you are handicapped by not spending the $$ or not be able to afford it.

[brockh]

It has been mentioned before and there have been some positive responses-

What are your opinions on this-

any 6 cell nimh up to 4600mah
any 2 cell 7.4v Lipo up to 3800mah in a hard case
LRP Sphere, any Novak Brushless ESC, Castle Creations Sidewinder (to be released)
Any generation Novak 13.5 brushless motor
52 oz. Min. Weight
Tour General rules appy
Use the Nitro EDM body rules- w/ or without hood scoop
Using an Inductance Meter to check legality of 13.5 motor based on Novaks specs BEFORE the days Racing and the top 4 (or 2) in each lower main After thier respective race, and the top 5 after the A-Main. Any motors not meeting the Inductance Meter numbers as set forth by the Novak Charts, WILL result in DISQUALIFICATION from that days racing and will lose all points for the day. Using a 3 strike rule if you are found not in accordance with the motor tech procedure, at the time of your 3rd infraction you will automatically forfeit ALL points earned to that point. And you will be SUSPENDED from THIS CLASS for a peroid of ONE YEAR from the date of the infraction for THIS CLASS ONLY. (each infraction will be documented as well as all the motor readings) If you are served with a SUSPENSION you will be on PROBATION for one year. If at any time during the one year you have an infraction for a motor violation you will be BANNED from THIS CLASS.
Ok, I think we know that myself and you do not see eye to eye on this set of rules at all and i'm not busting your balls by saying this......

Where have you seen the positive response for the rules mentioned? I have seen the most support for an open 13.5 class. You say you spoke to this track and that track....you fed them your thoughts on the hard packs(you did the same to me), did you happen to mention what chris said and how he felt? Chris had a racer there that he could not convince that there was something wrong with the battery, simply because he could not see it swelling because of it being in a hard case. I see pros and cons to both....hard cases may be safer in the car, but soft cases are safer in the pits....lets see given the choice, i would rather have a problem in a crash on the track moreso than having the thing go into nuclear melt down in the pits because i or someone else couldn't see the pack swelling before it pops, but hey thats just me.


These rules would easily carry over to next year, by then more info will be availible and the whole year can be used to research motors for acceptance into the class for 2009.

I would like to hear everyones thoughts on this.......

Look at it this way....if we have this open and it doesn't work out, we aren't out all the time and effort its taking to figure out what is legal and not. As far as changing timing and crap on speed controls, that is not magically putting more power to the motor, the ones that don't hook to a computer to change timing still puts just as much power to the motor....if we eliminate speed controls, why not eliminate certain radios. My M11 doesn't hook to the computer so i don't think someone else should be able to use a Nomadio React, how rediculas does that sound.

WE ARE NOT THE WDRA! they have a set of rules, and some may be close but some may be off by a little.... We are more inclined to be closer to the USOW rules, and here is why... The WDRA guys will usually have a car that conforms to the USOW race, BECAUSE MOST RACE IT, also we have a tiny race here called the February Freeze that they conform to as well, so why change the rules to WDRA so locals here have to change the cars to conform to A. The Open Wheel B. The Freeze C. Their weekly tracks ??? not happening


And finally the limiting batteries....DUMB... what the hell does it matter if you have a 3800 pack or a 5000 Ma pack....you are getting more run time AT MOST....its no more voltage, why create more tech hassel. So you can get 12 mins where someone else can only get 5...last time i checked the races are 4 mins so where is the advantage there??

[rj14]

Positive response being that some people are not opposed to running only one type of motor......That has been said.

I have NEVER SAID THAT I SPOKE TO ANY TRACKS. NOR HAVE I CONTACTED THEM, THAT IS TO BE LEFT FOR A TOUR COMITTEE MEMBER. WHICH I AM NOT.I said you may want to ask the tracks thier feelings on the batteries because some may limit them.......

And I agree as far as the safety thing goes- but we don't have a lot of experience with these cells do we?

I am stating my opinion on the hard vs. "soft" or conventional Lipos based on other track across the country, And an expert in the field that has experience with them. And if limiting batteries is DUMB, then why have a battery rule at all for either or any type of battery? If safety in the pits is a concern, than how many people are using kevlar bags for charging. Should this be a requirement as well?

The effort on the rules similarity issue is this- the USOWC is one race a year. The WDRA and PA NITRO Tour are series. I thought by Bills statements he would like things to be similar in nature, rules wise to help Both series' attendance. The only Difference is the body which is the easiest to change for rules conformity.

The bottom line is that I wanted some of the racers opinions on a set of defined rules. Without a definition of intent or anything how can we racers give proper feedback on a gathering of ideas. The concept I was using for my own edeification was here is an idea or concept- comment on it specifically. Which is what is happening. Chris pointed out someting on the list, and I responded with a direct view and reasoning. We all know I have no say in the matter but if I can help with giving ideas and different viewpoints I will.

If you all on the committee had come out and said next year we will run a 13.5 class, here are the rules..... we as racers would be none the wiser.

The open 13.5 concept that you are looking at is nothing more than open mod. Here is why-
If the only criteria is a 13.5 motor, with nothing else governing it, you will end up with a bunch of 3.5 w/ a 1 in front of the 3 on the label. And calling it such will confuse people and mislead them into a class that when they get into it, won't want to run.

I don't look at this as busting balls. You finally put out there a complete concept for everyone to see. So ultimately my post helped. That is all I am trying to do. It just seems things got misunderstood......

Ok, I think we know that myself and you do not see eye to eye on this set of rules at all and i'm not busting your balls by saying this......

Where have you seen the positive response for the rules mentioned? I have seen the most support for an open 13.5 class. You say you spoke to this track and that track....you fed them your thoughts on the hard packs(you did the same to me), did you happen to mention what chris said and how he felt? Chris had a racer there that he could not convince that there was something wrong with the battery, simply because he could not see it swelling because of it being in a hard case. I see pros and cons to both....hard cases may be safer in the car, but soft cases are safer in the pits....lets see given the choice, i would rather have a problem in a crash on the track moreso than having the thing go into nuclear melt down in the pits because i or someone else couldn't see the pack swelling before it pops, but hey thats just me.



Look at it this way....if we have this open and it doesn't work out, we aren't out all the time and effort its taking to figure out what is legal and not. As far as changing timing and crap on speed controls, that is not magically putting more power to the motor, the ones that don't hook to a computer to change timing still puts just as much power to the motor....if we eliminate speed controls, why not eliminate certain radios. My M11 doesn't hook to the computer so i don't think someone else should be able to use a Nomadio React, how rediculas does that sound.

WE ARE NOT THE WDRA! they have a set of rules, and some may be close but some may be off by a little.... We are more inclined to be closer to the USOW rules, and here is why... The WDRA guys will usually have a car that conforms to the USOW race, BECAUSE MOST RACE IT, also we have a tiny race here called the February Freeze that they conform to as well, so why change the rules to WDRA so locals here have to change the cars to conform to A. The Open Wheel B. The Freeze C. Their weekly tracks ??? not happening


And finally the limiting batteries....DUMB... what the hell does it matter if you have a 3800 pack or a 5000 Ma pack....you are getting more run time AT MOST....its no more voltage, why create more tech hassel. So you can get 12 mins where someone else can only get 5...last time i checked the races are 4 mins so where is the advantage there??

[needthat22]

i wanted to race the series but this is a bunch of bull s***. are we ever going to race. ahh.... maybe i will stay away from this stress i have enough at home i dun need it when going racing too. lol lol :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[BustedGFX]

I am with Cris and Brock, why limit the packs? I like the way this was headed at the start, no need to make more work that neccesary.

[Rcer19]

if you have a problem with my posts feel free to CALL me, you all know my #s, hell call collect if you can not afford the call, you would gain more respect from me with that rather than deleting my posts, anyone can do that,
RJ, i was not attacking your specs on the Brushless, my point was simple, there are people who do not have a clue as to electric racing trying to make the rules and decisions for the people who do know about it, and would run it,
My point was if the box says 13x5 then it should be legal, why should i be told what to buy,
You guys had a good idea with trying to run electric with the Tour, but i would just like to know why the Tour always wants to change rules and be different, and make things hard sometimes?
There are some of us who travel alot, and we try to get the out of staters to come here and race too, but they will not even think about it if we have to be different or make them change their cars to come here,

[siggy99x]

if you have a problem with my posts feel free to CALL me, you all know my #s, hell call collect if you can not afford the call, you would gain more respect from me with that rather than deleting my posts, anyone can do that,
RJ, i was not attacking your specs on the Brushless, my point was simple, there are people who do not have a clue as to electric racing trying to make the rules and decisions for the people who do know about it, and would run it,
My point was if the box says 13x5 then it should be legal, why should i be told what to buy,
You guys had a good idea with trying to run electric with the Tour, but i would just like to know why the Tour always wants to change rules and be different, and make things hard sometimes?
There are some of us who travel alot, and we try to get the out of staters to come here and race too, but they will not even think about it if we have to be different or make them change their cars to come here,


Nick do i need to come out of my retirement as a promoter and track maintenance man ???

[Rcer19]

lol, man things were so much easier back then, weren't they?

[siggy99x]

Sure seemed it maybe we were just that good LOL.

[Smokinnitro]

Bill I thought it is THE PA NITRO TOUR all this haggling about 1 electric class. Is it worth it?

[brockh]

Bill I thought it is THE PA NITRO TOUR all this haggling about 1 electric class. Is it worth it?
you have no idea how many people i spoke to today and said that same thing.

[terry14]

whatever happened to making rules, or a new class.come up with the idea and run with it. ----make the rules , they will come-----. would someone please make a decision and stick with it(officially). i have to buy a motor. at this point in time i don't care what i get. or if this is how the class is going to be just kill it now. from the sounds of the latest posts thats where its headed anyway.

[brockh]

whatever happened to making rules, or a new class.come up with the idea and run with it. ----make the rules , they will come-----. would someone please make a decision and stick with it(officially). i have to buy a motor. at this point in time i don't care what i get. or if this is how the class is going to be just kill it now. from the sounds of the latest posts thats where its headed anyway.
its not going anywhere.....its just needing small adjustments, at our meeting the the tracks as well as us the tour agreed upon any 13.5 any speed control and any battery.... another tour member brought up lets look at any 13.5 made today....anything that comes out down the road will have to wait till the following season to be allowed in....
here is the thing, we would be the only group allowing other 13.5 motors because most everyone else is going with the novak 13.5 only. What happens when those motors are hard to get, or what about the guy who has 2-3 LRP or Orion motors, now they have some place to run them other than their local track(if the local track permits). say someone entered with a novak and something happens to it during the course of the day but they have a nice new orion sitting in their box (they bought it some time ago for a steal!) now they can keep running and not have to borrow beg or steal for a novak.

[JohnnyO]

I too have to agree with Greg & Brock......I didn't want to say anything for fear of a major tongue lashing.........But, I'm getting a little tired of reading all the complaints and bickering....... I hardy sign on anymore..... I really feel bad for all the guys trying their best to put together a nice program (Please Remember These Guys Work For FREE), just to get the balls broke........... The worst part is most of the Ya-Hoos breaking Balls can't even make the "A" Main, so what's the difference????................. If I offended anyone Good, that was my intention.

JohnnyO

PS For all of you that now what to break my balls "Save it" until you see me face to face

[bumps and jumps rc]

This thread sort of reminds me of the last thread with all the drama about the limited class rules for the freeze. What is unfortunate is all that drama and so far they are the lowest entered class with a total of 7 (4+3) cars so far :o

I agree with most don't kill it before it begins. The motor is easy make a rule and go with it for a year - motors are much cheaper to replace than lipo's. So I think most everyone will either buy the novak the tour say's or choose there own brand. Only nick will get bent ;) The lipo rule needs to be open to allow the growth of this class - if you are worried about hard cases specify a hard cover. Venom should be out with there hard cover soon, and I am sure other manufacturers will also make covers for soft lipo's. Although I can't see a cover stop any battery from exploding, if a nimh can explode to the point that it flies apart, maybe lipo's are safer at least they don't have a hard tin shell to act as shrapnel!
On the up side I do see progress here - even if some get a little testy during the process.

[terry14]

WOW , with that said it realy narrows down who has an opinoin. thanks for setting me straight.

[sprinter117]

At the tour meeting the tracks all agreed to these rules: ANY 2 cell lipo or 6 cell NM pack ANY 13-5 Motor Any ESC .

I wanted to stay out of this because I do not know alot about electric racing but the time has come to stop the debate . Unless the tracks need to change something THESE ARE THE RULES IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE RULES DON'T RUN THE CLASS!!!

[sprinter117]

WOW , with that said it realy narrows down who has an opinoin. thanks for setting me straight.



as always we want your opinions and need them to make the right decisions for evryone. ;)

[rj14]

fyi- the LRP and Trinity Motors are where you want to start- they will be faster out of the box than the Novak and forget the Tekin, that one will be a dog. PM me and I will send you in the right direction for batteries....

[rj14]

What about Lithium Ion cells??????

[brockh]

At the tour meeting the tracks all agreed to these rules: ANY 2 cell lipo or 6 cell NM pack ANY 13-5 Motor Any ESC .

I wanted to stay out of this because I do not know alot about electric racing but the time has come to stop the debate . Unless the tracks need to change something THESE ARE THE RULES IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE RULES DON'T RUN THE CLASS!!!
what he said....;)

[rj14]

I find the fact rather funny that we will be racing the same weekend as the WDRA at Liberty Valley, and yet our cars for having a common class, won't be legal for each others class....

[thelandman]

What about Lithium Ion cells??????


I think you've said enough.

[rj14]

I think you've said enough.


it was a legitimate question.......

[brockh]

I find the fact rather funny that we will be racing the same weekend as the WDRA at Liberty Valley, and yet our cars for having a common class, won't be legal for each others class....
i'm sure there are several that will pass both tech inspections......

[sprinter117]

I find the fact rather funny that we will be racing the same weekend as the WDRA at Liberty Valley, and yet our cars for having a common class, won't be legal for each others class....



Hi Robert,
that is a good point but never less the tracks spoke on the subject and this is what they wanted . If any of the tracks now disagree with what they said earlier we can have another meeting to discuss the electric class as it was a "last minute" decision. The rules posted above will stand unless the tracks as a whole feel a need for the change. the Nitro tour can not set the rules for the WDRA and like wise they can not set the rules for our series.

NOW CAN'T WE ALL JUST RACE AND HAVE SOME FUN ???????? ENOUGH OF THE BS.

-Bill

[needthat22]

its been quite in here is everyone sleeping?

[kipp]

lets talk about happy things:confused:

[brockh]

weather sure has been nice...i could deal with winters being like this every year! hows that for happy!!

[kipp]

weather sure has been nice...i could deal with winters being like this every year! hows that for happy!!
i am very happy about that. especially since its my first north east winter in 9 years. so far i have not had to sell any of my rc cars to buy heating oil, that makes me happy too. racing season is going to be here before we know it.:greenflag:

[brockh]

i am very happy about that. especially since its my first north east winter in 9 years. so far i have not had to sell any of my rc cars to buy heating oil, that makes me happy too. racing season is going to be here before we know it.:greenflag:
we are luring you into a false sense of security......the big one could come again!

[BustedGFX]

Yeah,the big one, just wait, last year almost all the holidays got it, pretty funny:D :D

[team bellevegas]

Sorry if i missed it but is there going to be 1/8 late models in the PA nitro tour? Some of us from Canada were going to run the tour if there was.

[brockh]

unfortunately there will not be a 1/8th scale LM class on the PA Nitro Tour's schedule this year. It is a very neat class but has little to no following here in the north east for whatever reason.

[DIRTOVALDAVE]

BROCK AND THE POWERS TO BE,JUST IN CASE YOU WERE THINKING ABOUT A FUEL RULE FOR THE LIMITED CLASSES I AM ABSOLUTELY IN FAVOROF IT.THEY JUST ADDED THIS RULE TO THE EAST COAST SERIES RACES. THANKS DAVE LOUGHEAD:thumbsup:

[brockh]

is this a concern of anyone? I need some opinions(dave your's has been noted) as to what the rest of the racers want to do....here is my concern....say we pull a sponsor for fuel(i'm biased, so we will say S&W) but the weekly events do not spec a fuel...now we run into the issue of "i run brand X fuel and do not want to put your brand in because of blah blah blah....i understand that concern for that racer. do we say too bad so sad and spec a fuel anyway and risk losing that racer from that class?

please understand i'm not against this rule.....we just need some more input!!!

[ctsieber]

if you spec the pipe insted, it wont really matter what fuel you run.

is this a concern of anyone? I need some opinions(dave your's has been noted) as to what the rest of the racers want to do....here is my concern....say we pull a sponsor for fuel(i'm biased, so we will say S&W) but the weekly events do not spec a fuel...now we run into the issue of "i run brand X fuel and do not want to put your brand in because of blah blah blah....i understand that concern for that racer. do we say too bad so sad and spec a fuel anyway and risk losing that racer from that class?

please understand i'm not against this rule.....we just need some more input!!!

[rj14]

i think in the interest of keeping the local track specific racers you might want to consider not specing a fuel. chances are the vast majority of the racers will live with doing this for one race like the Open Wheel. because other than 5 or 6 racers on average the locals to this series won't be going down to the Carolina series.

[signman501]

I agree with Brock as most guys like to use their own fuel. It may be easier to use a spec pipe but again that might be too much of a problem with tech. I think for simplicity, it might be easier to run the classes just as it been done up to now.

[DIRTOVALDAVE]

MYSELF AND ED STRADA ARE GOING TO RUN THE EAST COAST SERIES RACES ALONG WITH PA NITRO TOUR.I DONT CARE EITHER WAY ABOUT THE FUEL.I JUST KNOW THAT THEY POSTED A SPEC FUEL FOR THE LIMITED CLASSES IN THE EAST COAST SERIES RACES SO I WAS JUST SAYING IF THE NITRO TOUR DOES IT I AM IN FAVOR OF IT THATS ALL.I ABSOLUTELY WANT THE LIMITED CLASSES TO SURVIVE AND PROSPER.I PROBALLY WILL BE ADDING ANOTHER DRIVER IN THE NEAR FUTURE. THANKS DAVE LOUGHEAD:thumbsup:

[Animal]

I believe specking the fuel to be a mistake.

1)here are a few reasons,,, when breaking in an engine. i personally prefer to use the fuel i will be racing with.

2)the tour does not have a laboratory nor the finances to to enforce this rule.

3) just as it was posted for the electric classes about restricting it to novac only motors. why would you force a perspective entry to run a fuel that he feels may hurt his engine.

if the fuel was to be free and every one pulled from a common drum to race would be the only way for this to work. but you are still unable to just have the fuel needed for weekly racing, i feel this is just a bad idea.

some more had the chance to see the limited classes race at the freeze... and the biggest difference i had seem from all those that entered were the ones that hit the correct setup or not.

This class is more about making the car handle, and work then seeing what you can get out of the engine, most are all equal on speed anyway... make the car work. hence what the class was created for.

[terry14]

i agree with animal. why create a rule that you can't enforce? i plan on running the limited class this year , and would like to run the fuel i broke the engine in with.

[Rcer19]

spec spec spec, lol
like i said before, i really do not feel that 20% or 30% fuel is going to make your car 1 or 2 tenths faster if you wanna spec the fuel ok, but NOT the PIPE !!!!!!!!!!!
if you spec the pipe you are "telling" someone how and what to spend "their" money on, and i have a problem with that,
EXAMPLE--- If there would happen to be a Limited EDM class, how would you like it if they told you that they had to run one of my bodies. some guys like my stuff, some guys don't i do not want people to be forced to run my stuff, so i do not want to be forced to run something i do not,
I hope this gets settled soon,

[brockh]

popular vote so far is :thumbsdown: to spec fuel....i really didn't think it was going to go over but we the tour like to hear what the racers have to say about things

[ctsieber]

use the current rules. Give the class a year to see where it goes. If at the end of the year changes are needed, then they can be made for next year.

popular vote so far is :thumbsdown: to spec fuel....i really didn't think it was going to go over but we the tour like to hear what the racers have to say about things

[kipp]

my vote is no to spec fuel and no to spec pipe. to many rules suck.

[brockh]

my vote is no to spec fuel and no to spec pipe. to many rules suck.
just for the record, personally i share this opinion

[mikejhs82]

just for the record, personally i share this opinion


I third the motion ,to many rules suck.. No to spec pipes and no to spec fuel.



Mike

[kerstetter]

I Also think we should just go a year and see how this class goes I ran limited sprint at the freeze and as animal said its more about car setup then the engine so my vote is for no to both

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

Well,

As a potential Limited drive in late '08 and '09 and I am waiting to see how the rules pan out before I pull my Mod motor in my Nitro Sprint and drop in a TG. I really like the idea of the class but as many have noted TOO many "un-enforceable" rules are a bad thing...

I think running what you have for rules now will work great and fine tuning could be done in the late fall after the tour is over and you have ON TRACK results and feedback. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE just don't wait to make the rules for the '09 Tour in '09... It's too close to the next season and many have already bought equipment... Try to get the rules package ready in late '08 after the season is over so that we have time to plan and spend accordingly...

:thumbsdown: Fuel Rule

Sean

[signman501]

As I said before, we need to leave the fuel rule alone. I do know, as of now, the US Open will require a spec fuel this year. They will provide the fuel and you will come to the track for heats and mains with the fuel tank empty and they will fuel your car for each race.

I don't think we need to do this for the Tour. It is entirely to much of a PAIN. As for the rules, we have not made any changes to the rules from 2007 with the exception of the Limited classes. If you build the cars according to the rules for this year you should be ready to race for quite awhile.

[mikeschellracing]

shane ran tg class at the freeze.1st heat ran big tires and car was to tight 39 laps 5.8 fast lap. 2nd heat freed car up sprayed grease out of all bearings and put small tires on the car changed clutch bell from 21 to 25.he ran 43 laps and turned 5.3 fast lap. 3rd heat leaned bottom end on motor and richen top. dropped to 24 clutch bell and towed out rr 1.5 degrees. car was on 45 lap pace and turned 5.2 fast lap. no change in feul or pipe and picked pace up 6 laps and 6 tenths. limited is all about rolling the turns,proper tune + gearing,rotating mass [small tires],and good free rolling bearings. alot like stock electric. just my 2cents. like the class, it puts on a good show.

[JohnnyO]

I agree with Mike............ I worked on Mike Wollard's Limited LM Rent-A-Ride at the Freeze, we ran 20%, never tuned the engine, never changed the gear, only had one set of tires, kept playing with setup....... He won the B to make the show....... Car was running 5.0's..........This is a driver/setup class, not HP.......... if it's not for you, add a side dam & a Rody....... plan "B" stay home or go Off Road Racing................"It Is, What It Is"

[peanutsprint9]

I agree with Mike............ I worked on Mike Wollard's Limited LM Rent-A-Ride at the Freeze, we ran 20%, never tuned the engine, never changed the gear, only had one set of tires, kept playing with setup....... He won the B to make the show....... Car was running 5.0's..........This is a driver/setup class, not HP.......... if it's not for you, add a side dam & a Rody....... plan "B" stay home or go Off Road Racing................"It Is, What It Is"


Well said!!!!

I ran 5th in limited sprint at the Freeze, first A-main in a Big event ever!!! It felt good not to get destroyed by big dollar motors!!! No offense John!!

[FREEZER]

shane ran tg class at the freeze.1st heat ran big tires and car was to tight 39 laps 5.8 fast lap. 2nd heat freed car up sprayed grease out of all bearings and put small tires on the car changed clutch bell from 21 to 25.he ran 43 laps and turned 5.3 fast lap. 3rd heat leaned bottom end on motor and richen top. dropped to 24 clutch bell and towed out rr 1.5 degrees. car was on 45 lap pace and turned 5.2 fast lap. no change in feul or pipe and picked pace up 6 laps and 6 tenths. limited is all about rolling the turns,proper tune + gearing,rotating mass [small tires],and good free rolling bearings. alot like stock electric. just my 2cents. like the class, it puts on a good show.



LoL, Mike how long did it take you to type this message. Mike can drive alot faster than he can type:thumbsup: :p

[Rcer19]

nice to see that people are finally getting the jist of the TG motor and what it takes to make the car fast, i said 3 months ago that at the Open Whhel race we worked on setup and "corner speed"
now you guys see what i was talking about, thank you

[BOOSIER RACING TIRES]

In the limited class, it's all about the TIRES......;)

[Rcer19]

Kipp, you do not get a vote till your ass shows up and races, lol

[mikeschellracing]

jim your right and thank god for that [is 30 mins. to long?????]

[DIRTOVALDAVE]

nice to see that people are finally getting the jist of the TG motor and what it takes to make the car fast, i said 3 months ago that at the Open Whhel race we worked on setup and "corner speed"
now you guys see what i was talking about, thank you

In the limited class, it's all about the TIRES......;)
AND I LISTENED TO EVERYTHING MY TEACHERS TAUGHT ME.NICK&BRIAN I THANK YOU FOR THE ADVISE YOU GUYS GAVE ME @ THE USOWC&THE FREEZE TO PUT MY CARS UP FRONT @ BOTH OF THESE RACES.NOT SOME SPECIAL TRICK WITH THE TG MOTORS.IT WAS ALL CHASSIS&TIRES AND GOOD SMOOTH DRIVING BY NICK D.AND ED STRADA.THERE WILL BE MORE TO COME FROM BOTH OF THESE GUYS ALONG WITH LOGAN SHETTER WHO WILL BE ADDED TO A THIRD LIMITED NITRO SPRINT OUT OF MY CAMP. THANKS GUYS DAVE LOUGHEAD:thumbsup: