'08 rules package??

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

Just curious when the '08 rules package will be out... (And if Foams will be allowed on the Tour in '08)

Sean

[signman501]

If Bill doesn't mind I will try to let you know our plans.

We are working on the rules for '08. As for tires, I would think we will go with the general area track tire rules for for the coming year.

We are into the Holidays now so we will try to get things going the 1st of Dec. If it works out we should have rules and a schedule the 1st of Jan.

Glenn Norton

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

ok cool,

Just wanted to make sure on the tire rule mostly... So I don't go out and get what I can't use with holiday cash.

[brockh]

little birdie told me you wont have to worry about rubber tires anymore, now that is just what i heard! :D

[ctsieber]

Think I heard that same little birdie ;)

little birdie told me you wont have to worry about rubber tires anymore, now that is just what i heard! :D

[JAC9]

I think I heard something about a handout rubber tire like the big touring car races!!!!

[mike1976]

I own foams, but i think we should STAY on rubber for 08. If anything i say foams mask handling problems. Rubber in my opinion is more economical and easy to tech on race day. Just my :twocents:

[Flopper]

I think I heard something about a handout rubber tire like the big touring car races!!!!

Hand out tires! What an awesome idea!!!!

[ctsieber]

with all the tracks running foams, its not going to be rubber tires. And what is there to tech with foams?

I own foams, but i think we should STAY on rubber for 08. If anything i say foams mask handling problems. Rubber in my opinion is more economical and easy to tech on race day. Just my :twocents:

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

hum.... maybe I can bring my Durometer tester to see who's got the "Softest compound"

I for one would be in FAVOR of handouts or SPEC tires.(ie. Proline Strikers for trucks) Foams for a newbie like me present an investment in time, money, and a learning curve... Let's see...Greens or pinks, or maybe orange? or wait Silvers??? oh them their's different manufacturer's "Actual" durometers for their specific compounds.. Then their's which cleaning methon or which tire "Sauce". Oh an don't forget that Dreme and Tire Truer... gotta Groove 'em!!! Oh and then you can camber the tire and OH YEAH multiple compound tires for you asphalt guys gone dirt!

Rubber is Glue with a Single compound...Yeah maybe some Simple green to clean 'em. (*cough* and some WD-40 so lower the Durometer)

I AM IN FAVOR OF RUBBER if you haven't guessed... Overall simplicity and cost.

:-) GO RUBBER :thumbsup:

[ctsieber]

rubber tires are no cheaper.

actually go out and run acouple weeks and you will have foams figured out pretty quickly. Cleaning them? WATER. Groving them? Just ask. I can do acouple sets for you, then you have a place to start from.

compunds? Pinks / RAD B's or Silvers / RAD A's at all the tracks but the mill, you will want a set of purples or C's there.

hum.... maybe I can bring my Durometer tester to see who's got the "Softest compound"

I for one would be in FAVOR of handouts or SPEC tires.(ie. Proline Strikers for trucks) Foams for a newbie like me present an investment in time, money, and a learning curve... Let's see...Greens or pinks, or maybe orange? or wait Silvers??? oh them their's different manufacturer's "Actual" durometers for their specific compounds.. Then their's which cleaning methon or which tire "Sauce". Oh an don't forget that Dreme and Tire Truer... gotta Groove 'em!!! Oh and then you can camber the tire and OH YEAH multiple compound tires for you asphalt guys gone dirt!

Rubber is Glue with a Single compound...Yeah maybe some Simple green to clean 'em. (*cough* and some WD-40 so lower the Durometer)

I AM IN FAVOR OF RUBBER if you haven't guessed... Overall simplicity and cost.

:-) GO RUBBER :thumbsup:

[mike1976]

Hmmm, lets see. Teching to see if sombody is running cheater tires (ie. silicone impregnated). :D RUBBER is for racing, foam is for SITTING on....... :ha:

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

How are rubber tires not cheaper??? (A set of CW rubber is about $10 cheaper than foam)

I understand setup will come with time... And starting points for compounds, etc are also just time and information... BUT.

Grooving requires investement in equipment and you've already mentioned needing different compounds. One set is good for most but not all... well that doubles the tire bill already.. And I appreciate the offer to groove but in time it will end up me needing to buy one...

Most people I've talked to use some form of tire sauce to be competetive and many re-groove the tires after a few weekends. (We don't want to get into TECH. everytime I hear about foams it's "well if they don't leave any grease" then they are legal THAT'S a WHOLE 'Nother issue)

Go Rubber. :D

[brockh]

who said you are even able to "cheat" with foams this year....nothing has came out yet as far as a tire rule so silicone inpregnation may be legal...you will just have to wait and see. besides, its more than likely going to be track rules...if the track owner says no grease and you are caught using grease, the penalty may be left up to the track owner, maybe you will be warned, maybe you will be kicked out....these are all details that have yet to be decided. and i doubt any track is banning rubber tires, if that keeps the cost down for you or you are just dead set on not running "sponges" as mr. moody calls them, run rubber...street treaded rubber!

as far as a spec tire....if you are willing to accept about a 40-50 increase in a per entry fee, that is feasible but i doubt people are going to go for it....

[Mudonthetires]

Go with rubbers and there is no spec or handout cuz everyone used CW tires anyway.

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

wow... kinda sorta like a firestorm of info...

hum.. wonder how fast Steve Kinser would be with his WoO on Foams?? LOL

I second Mike1976. "foam is for SITTING on"

:D

[Animal]

I just dont understnd why we need to constantly rehash this disscussion, if you dont want to buy or run foams then dont, run your rubbers. i have plenty here that are brand new that i will sell for a fair price.

if the tour changes to open tire rule, run the foams if you choose to. No reason to go over this for the 15 time.:revs::rolleyes:

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

This is the 1st time for me... I've been running Rubber for the last 12 years and frankly would like to see the Tour help out the budget racers and disallow foam in '08...

Control Costs and don't allow Foams. better yet. Bring back the "LOOSE DIRT" track and foams will be worthless anyway...

Just my .02. I await the Rules...

[ctsieber]

rubber doesnt help out the budget racer because every track here runs foams. So how would rubber tires help when they already have and are running foam tires?

This is the 1st time for me... I've been running Rubber for the last 12 years and frankly would like to see the Tour help out the budget racers and disallow foam in '08...

Control Costs and don't allow Foams. better yet. Bring back the "LOOSE DIRT" track and foams will be worthless anyway...

Just my .02. I await the Rules...

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

I think I have let my discussion on how to save dirt oval trickle into this tire rule thing on here so I will try not to muddy up the puddle much further... If you haven't seen it our car counts in classes are dwindling and the competition seems to be spread further and further apart due in part to "Who's got money to go fast". foam tires are just another thing that separate the "Have's" and the "Have Not's"... Most everyone will be to buy tires as the seasons progress so it's about continuing tire costs... And if anyone is looking into going into ANY of the classes besides the SLIDERS then they are going to see the "FOAM BILL" if they want to be competetive...(lap times, etc prove Foam is faster)

Last time I checked Dirt Oval was about sliding around, looking for a fast groove, and outdriving the next guy, not being able to afford more power and the means to put it down... Foam tire racing reminds me more and more of CARPET racing every day. See the thread in the General Discussion and see the support growing for a Change...

Is it Spring yet??? I need the therapy that comes in the form of Burning Nitro :D

[ctsieber]

thats funny, you actually slide around more on the foam tires.
Dirt oval racing is not cheap, ITsn ot going to get any cheaper. If you would race on more then 1 track in PA, you would know that rubber tires arent that cheap to run on. At newvilles tour race last year I wore out a full set of tires everytime I put Bills EDM on the track. If I would of been running foams, I would of still been able to run them the following week. Just some grooving needed.

why wait till spring? We race all year around.

I think I have let my discussion on how to save dirt oval trickle into this tire rule thing on here so I will try not to muddy up the puddle much further... If you haven't seen it our car counts in classes are dwindling and the competition seems to be spread further and further apart due in part to "Who's got money to go fast". foam tires are just another thing that separate the "Have's" and the "Have Not's"... Most everyone will be to buy tires as the seasons progress so it's about continuing tire costs... And if anyone is looking into going into ANY of the classes besides the SLIDERS then they are going to see the "FOAM BILL" if they want to be competetive...(lap times, etc prove Foam is faster)

Last time I checked Dirt Oval was about sliding around, looking for a fast groove, and outdriving the next guy, not being able to afford more power and the means to put it down... Foam tire racing reminds me more and more of CARPET racing every day. See the thread in the General Discussion and see the support growing for a Change...

Is it Spring yet??? I need the therapy that comes in the form of Burning Nitro :D

[brockh]

This is the 1st time for me... I've been running Rubber for the last 12 years and frankly would like to see the Tour help out the budget racers and disallow foam in '08...

Control Costs and don't allow Foams. better yet. Bring back the "LOOSE DIRT" track and foams will be worthless anyway...

Just my .02. I await the Rules...
you have to understand that because we did not run foams this year with most of the local tracks we are racing on, our attendence went down drastically compaired to the year prior. I don't know about you but IMO if there is going to be a "tour" race at any particular track, i want to see the attendence to be the best that track sees all year. I want the best guys there running the fastest setups possible because i want to know where i stack up to the best. I don't want to run in a tour series race where i'm limited to a certain type of tire when i have been running at a track all year long that allowed other tires up to that point, it makes no sense.
A lot of people sat the tour out this year simply because they could not run foam tires, can i blame them....absolutely not! I don't speak for ANY of the PA Nitro Tour when saying this... I HATE rubber tires, if i never put a rubber tire on my car ever again, trust me, I won't be heart broken. Its not like i can't make rubber tires work for me, i think i have prooven myself there, its just not what i like and the biggest reason is the expense. Your argument of rubber tires being cheaper... a budget tire....PLEASE!! I have yet to go out on a set of foams and after a 4 min heat have a right rear totaly destroyed and a right front that may make another 4 mins maybe not, this hardly fits my "budget" when going fast requires destroying right rears and getting 2 runs out of a right front. With a foam if its feathered too much, i'm going to touch it up on the truer, freshen up the grooves and go at it again.
You can say i don't go out and chunk my rubber tires that is why its cheaper for me...ok you got me, you don't go out and chunk rubbers.....simple fix...QUIT HITTING CRAP!!! I have yet to chunk a foam that wasn't my fault! if you are not killing your rubber tires and you are not comfortable with the fact you can chunk a foam keep running rubber tires...no one is telling you not to.
Look at the other side of the coin....there are probably more people that want to run foams than there are die hard rubber fans...the foam guys are not trying to keep rubber guys from running, try to understand foams work better for certain people and rubber works better for others, there is no reason to only let one group run...now you have a choice.
with implementing the "open to the track" rule, you leave it open for people to use what makes their car feel good to them....some days it may be rubber, i think most days it will be foams, but it will be YOUR call.

OTR and others, don't think i'm lobbying against you, i'm not. I am just trying to explain why this is going to be the best move for the tour and the track owners.

[moosejr]

Not this again

[pamodfan]

There's no need to invest in new tools when running foams. To groove tires I use the KISS method. Keep It Simple Stupid! For the rears I cut the CVD end off of a used rear axle, stick it in a drill, get a fork and groove away. For the fronts I have a nut and a bolt that fit perfect into the bearing holes. Again, in the drill and groove away.

Yeah, you'll need a dremel to put the cross cuts in. If you can't afford $30 for a dremel and a cut-off wheel, I think you should rething being able to afford racing anything! Besides, I'm sure you'll find many more uses for the dremel around the house.

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

I will agree to disagree. Like every piece of paper there are two sides... Ford vs. Chevy... etc.

I'm a "loose track" lobbyist anyway so in my world buggy tires are the answer to bringing the crowds back to dirt oval racing and putting the action back in the racers hands...(And also taking the $$$ out of the equation.)

Curt thanks for the insight.. I have only heard one side to this ordeal @ the track and online and now I have a better idea of what I am up against with the Nitro Sprint this year.

Sean

[pamodfan]

I will agree to disagree. Like every piece of paper there are two sides... Ford vs. Chevy... etc.

I'm a "loose track" lobbyist anyway so in my world buggy tires are the answer to bringing the crowds back to dirt oval racing and putting the action back in the racers hands...(And also taking the $$$ out of the equation.)

Curt thanks for the insight.. I have only heard one side to this ordeal @ the track and online and now I have a better idea of what I am up against with the Nitro Sprint this year.

Sean


I'm all for "loose track" RC racing too. A lot more fun and much more realistic. But if the tracks are not going to go that route and be hard and packed, then foams are the way to go.

[OTR SPEEDWAY]

Let me add just one more thing and I'll retire to my lunch and fries.

I'm mostly against foams in the Truck class. I realize EDMs and Sprints EAT rubber tires but the nitro trucks don't. I've run 7 race days w/ my Jato on Rubber tires and they are about half way there... So in "Truck" to control cost rubber would make a difference.

anyhoo.. back to work... :cool:

[RAD tire]

[quote OTR]

I'm a "loose track" lobbyist anyway so in my world buggy tires are the answer to bringing the crowds back to dirt oval racing and putting the action back in the racers hands...(And also taking the $$$ out of the equation.)




I really hope you are kidding!!!

[signman501]

OK KNOCK IT OFF WITH THE TIRE DISCUSSION UNTIL WE GET SOMETHING GOING.

PERIOD!!!

We will get togather soon and have rule's after the USOWC.

Glenn Norton

[sprinter117]

I think I heard something about a handout rubber tire like the big touring car races!!!!



I don't care who you are that there is funny .........:D and a very good idea .....;)

[kipp]

[quote OTR]

I'm a "loose track" lobbyist anyway so in my world buggy tires are the answer to bringing the crowds back to dirt oval racing and putting the action back in the racers hands...(And also taking the $$$ out of the equation.)




I really hope you are kidding!!!
me too

[rj14]

what is wrong w/ an open tire rule????? run what you want!!!!!!


fyi- when i have run foams on sturday and switched to rubber for sunday, the most i have had to change is maybe 1- 1 1/2 rounds of pre-load. what is so hard about that??

[DaBearsNo13]

Loose tracks = :trophy:

:ha: :ha:

[mike1976]

WOW, that kinda snowballed. My whole point was not to beat a dead horse on the tire subject. My whole thought was lets keep the cost down and a level playing field for all drivers. THAT will be more an issue when it comes to car counts, not just the foam or rubber debate. I was looking at it from my point of view, a local guy on a shoestring buget. Heck i ran the tour races i was able to make on the same tires i ran the previous season. I am just voicing these thoughts for this simple fact, thier are MORE drivers like me out their wanting to run these big events and be somewhat competitive doing it. FEEL FREE TO RIP INTO THIS POST, IVE SAID MY PIECE!