Evolution of the Dominator

[AscotConversion]

I recall reading in old Car Actions that the Dominator was developed from the old Yokomo Dogfighter. The "final" design was called the Dominator IV in the late 80's if i remember right. Just wondering if anyone had old pictures of the cars that were part of the developmental chain. If you know some of the story of how that car was developed, that would be interesting too.

BTW i found the picture as part of a guy's restoration of a Yokomo Dogfighter, and that's what set off this train of thought....

[gary mcallister]

I was pretty heavily involved in racing Dirt Oval at it's beginnings in SoCal back in the 80s. It really took off at the Ranch Pit Shop in Pomona(now only a memory) when the Losi's took over.

We started with any off road car around, Tamiya Rough Riders, Scorpions, AYKs, you name it.(before RC10s) One day Mike Tobey of CRP came back from the Orient with a 4WD Hirobo and killed everybody. Guess what...we all got Hirobos...then Yokomos and so on.

Meanwhile Jerry and Brian Landgraph start racing(Brian was early teens I think). Jerry being a great craftsman and perfectionist, decided to design and build a Dirt Oval specific chassis. As soon as everybody saw it we all wanted one. You had to get in line at a thousand dollars a pop. At first they were all hand machined parts, then some Yokomo parts were integrated to speed up production and make them cheaper.

I still have two of probably the first ten made, one with all machined parts and one with Yokomo arms. The rest is history. Only Jerry and Brian would have the full details.

Oh yea...I still have my Yokomo from back then too. Someday I'll have to start a website called "sittin on the porch" talking about the early days of RC racing....I'm not retired yet though.

Gary McAllister

[mopar70]

Gary,

Post some picks of the early cars. That would be neet to see.

Jeff

[Doug Carter]

Someday I'll have to start a website called "sittin on the porch" talking about the early days of RC racing....I'm not retired yet though.


Hey Gary, cool post.

That website is already bubbling around in my head... http://www.vintagerccars.com





Plenty of vintage oval cars will be there, too. :D

[AscotConversion]

Wow, great post Gary. If you can put some pictures up, that would be awesome.

[jherzog]

My first Dom had some of the Yokomo packaged parts. I think that was 1987. Last time I was at the shop (when it is still in Bakersfield) they had the early prototypes in the display case. I am assuming that either Brian and Jerry or Rob has them. Perhaps they can get some pictures for you as well.

[gary mcallister]

OK...sorry it took a while to dig these out of the archives.

Dominator with vintage Mcallister Racing wheel dots has all hand machined suspension parts. I think this is the earliest version. Pictured with X-Terminator body.

Dominator with white wheels has Yokomo A-arms. First real productionversions I beleive.

Yokomo 4WD dirt oval conversion. Very early 4WD dirt oval car. Probably has dirt on it from the old Ranch Pit Shop dirt oval. Pictured with our Wedge Vette body...very popular then, and one of the earliest bodies specifically for dirt oval.

Silver and blue sprint is a Big Boys Toys sprint...never used. Can't even guess on the wheels. Body is our Silver Bullit.

Sprint with no hood is an unknown cage . Notice the earliset MIP tranny and outdrives. This one I raced alot and was pretzeled several times.

Hope you get a few giggles with these.

Gary McAllister

[gary mcallister]

It will take a few posts to get all the photos in.

[gary mcallister]

Hi Doug-

The attachment management won't let me post all the pictures. Anything I can do? Sorry for the mess up.

Gary McAllister

[Doug Carter]

Not sure what the problem is, Gary. Your first two look perfect. The file size might have been large than the forum allowances. I upped the maximum files and space allotted so give it another try.

I'm anxious to see this, like most everyone else, I'm sure.


:D

[gary mcallister]

OK- another try.

[Doug Carter]

Awesome photos, Gary. Great history. I always wondered what cars were under the bodies in all of the old ads. :)


Love that Corvette Yok. One of my favorite bodies on one of my favorite chassis from the old days.






Fantastic. Thanks for that—you made my day. :thumbsup:

[gary mcallister]

Thanks Doug...glad you enjoyed them. Sorry about some of the dust and cobwebs. These haven't seen the light of day in many, many years. Some are just how they finished their last race in the 80s...broken parts and all.

Gary McAllister

[AscotConversion]

Thanks for putting those up Gary. Totally awesome. Very interesting how the shock mounting and upper arms changed from the very early car to the later ones. Other than that, they don't look too different! I like the sprint car w/ the mip trans and trailing arms. I have always thought that the early days of a racing class are the most interesting, as no one knows what "really works". The crazy stuff that is tried is great.

[MuTheta9]

Gary, thank you for reminding me of why I got into this sport in the first place. I can remember reading about those cars in R/C Modeler (or what ever RCCA's parent publication was back in the day). I used to dream of having those cars you guys raced and would always pester my parents about them when it came time to ask for things for Christmas. Thank you for keeping the old school alive and well, even if it is just for bench racing.

[FULLT1LT]

man what a sight for sore eyes i forgot i had a yokomo(very short time)before i traded it to a kid for a dom he couldnt figure out those yokos were fast and had their place in the hall of do but couldnt hold a candle to a dom thanks for the memories gary

[nik77356]

isnt the dominator the car that you would put a one way one all four corners except for the left rear? excuse for my noobness. this car was before my time.

[Tehachapi Flash]

Hi Gary, The sprint is a "Big Boys Toys" car by Randy Smith in Bakersfield. We started racing those at the "Old Metro Speedway" About 2 years later a LA company started importing a "Look alike" called the "Ascot" conversion for the RC-10. The chassis was G-10 Fiberglass instead of the Carbon Fiber now used. They were VERY heavy, but did the trick. Ron

[gary mcallister]

I only ever used one-ways on the front of the Dominators back then, never heard of using them on the rear.

The Silver and blue Sprint is a Big Boys Toys cage as I said above. The sprint with no hood is a knock off...maybe an Ascot, but I can't remember for sure. I talk to Randy every once in a while. He races the RC nastrucks in SoCal I think. Heard that Cliff from Ascot passed away.

Gary McAllister

[nik77356]

i heard that you used a one way on eery corner but the left rear so that when you hit the brakes the car would whip around to the left and then you just hit the gas and powerslid through the corners

[Doug Carter]

i heard that you used a one way on eery corner but the left rear so that when you hit the brakes the car would whip around to the left and then you just hit the gas and powerslid through the corners

Yeah, like Gary, since those things were invented, I never heard anyone using one-ways in the rear at all. That's a first...

[nik77356]

like i said, i just heard this. a guy at my lhs said that you could do this

[poolguru]

Sounds like a little creative "testing" to me.:p

[jherzog]

In all my years I never ran them in the back. It was hard enough to keep the one ways in one piece on the front.

[racerxx]

Hey Gary,

Cool pictures. I still have my old cars. Even my old Tamiya Fox. Those were the good old days of RC. The Dominator changed racing forever. You either had one or just flatout got out run. When I moved to CA in 1989 to run Tecnacraft after leaving BoLink the oval racing was hot all over CA. Then as you know when Jerry started working on the 2 wd car everyone could not wait. In 1991 I along with Chris Smith had the privilidge of taking the only 2 prototype Intimidators back to the Sugar Bowl in Georgia to run the first World Clay Oval Race. At that race we got the first look at Jim Dieters Trinity 2WD Dirt Car and the new Team Pit stop chain drive car. I ran 3rd in Modified and 6th in Stock. The Sugar Bowl was hands down the best Dirt Oval in the country at the time. I have a great video of the Stock and Mod A mains. A few changes were made and the look of 2WD was never the same. Funny I found this post, I found a bunch of old magazines from the 80's and early 90's and have been remembering the good old days. I still remember me and a buddy (Carroll Bailey) driving to Lawrenceville, GA every Friday night to race on the Red Clay Oval behind BoLink. 5 hours round trip to race 12 minutes. That was fun. I miss the old Dirt Track at Racers Haven under the shed. That track was cool when it got a blue groove in it from the TRC capped tires. Winning the JG Dirt Oval Pro-Stock in 1992 is still one of my fondest memories. I will have to dig up some of my old pictures of cars from the 80's and 90's and post them. A vintage dirt site would be cool.

Joe Goodwin

[David Butts]

I miss the old Dirt Track at Racers Haven under the shed. That track was cool when it got a blue groove in it from the TRC capped tires.

Joe Goodwin


I found three or four of those TRC dirt caps brand new in the package looking though my old stuff yesterday.

[racerxx]

By chance are they Yellow rears and Green fronts?

[mrlexan]

Great Pics Gary! Thanks for sharing...... Great products too! Can't go without mentioning that.

[jherzog]

I love coming back to these threads and seeing the old names hanging around. Kind of miss the old days when the I was young and had no bills, except getting to the next race, buying batteries and buying tires.

The old Racer's Haven track was awesome. Sugarbowl was a blast, especially the nighttime nationals in 92.

[David Butts]

I love coming back to these threads and seeing the old names hanging around. Kind of miss the old days.


The old Racer's Haven track was awesome. Sugarbowl was a blast, especially the nighttime nationals in 92.


Me too, It's a shame some of the really old guys that are still breathing dirt dust dont come on here and relive old times, Or atleast let us younger types(I'm 46) hear what it was like for them. I worked in shops from about 86 to 95 so I was there during the heyday and even maintained an outdoor track from 87 to 91. It'd kill me now to work out in this Florida heat.

The 92 nightime nats? I was there and finished 6th in the 2wd stock wedge "A"
I was just out in the garage painting my first wedge body in uh, 15 years. It's going on my circa 1991 DD Intimidator. I'll be putting back on the track in a couple weeks just to see where it stacks up against the newer cars. I think I already know as I spun it before I came in here and I bet it's still spinning now. The new body? Its to replace the Protoform Vortex wedge thats on it, I last ran it on my Dominator which I still have too back in 94 Wanna see pics?

[David Butts]

By chance are they Yellow rears and Green fronts?


Why yes they are but they're for the rc10 with the 1/4" rear axles. Green fronts, Yellow rears.I have another set that has never been on the track but are out of package. I do also have a complete set for the Intimidator/Enforcer that I ran a several tracks back in the day. The rubber is good but the foam is dryrotted. I pull'em out everyonce in a while to show the new guys. I.E. the racers who have only been racing ten years or so. :confused:

The caps I had for the Dominator dryrotted and were trashed years ago. Unlike the other tires that were put away in a big bin, Those were on the car in the attic. You can imagine how hot it gets in an attic down here

[gary mcallister]

Hi Joe-

Funny where you bump into folks these days..."it's a small cyberspace after all".

I still have some of the old Tecnacraft wheels on some display cars. People ask where to get them...I say, don't ask! I won't part with them.

Gary McAllister

[jherzog]

The one Dominator I have left still has tecnacraft turnbuckles and the silicone caps we ran in 92 at Sugarbowl. Never ran those tires again after that race.

[David Butts]

The one Dominator I have left still has tecnacraft turnbuckles and the silicone caps we ran in 92 at Sugarbowl. Never ran those tires again after that race.

I too have some of the 2wd silicones and a complete set for the Dom last used at the 92 nats. You know a couple years ago, On a whim. I knocked the silicone off a couple sets of tires from back then and the foam was still just as fresh as the day they were capped over some 15 years ago.

Maybe embalmers should use that stuff.

[racerxx]

Hey Gary,

I still have a few sets of the old wheels left that I have been hanging on too. I still have a set of the 1/4 scale ones we made. I have slowly been inching back into RC. I need to order some bodies from you. I do miss the good old days. Racing was fun back then. They are going to bulldoze the offroad track in Easley after the Oval Nats next month and build a Dirt Oval.

jherzog is this james herzog?

[Doug Carter]

Still, easily some of the most beautiful items EVER made for R/C cars. By a LONG shot.

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/vintage/tecnacraft/tecnacrafts_001.jpg



Hey Joe, still have any of the original Tecnacraft decals lying around? :D

[jherzog]

Hey Gary,

I still have a few sets of the old wheels left that I have been hanging on too. I still have a set of the 1/4 scale ones we made. I have slowly been inching back into RC. I need to order some bodies from you. I do miss the good old days. Racing was fun back then. They are going to bulldoze the offroad track in Easley after the Oval Nats next month and build a Dirt Oval.

jherzog is this james herzog?


It is!

[racerxx]

Hey Doug,

I believe I do. I will have to find them. I think I got some white and black. Give me your address and I will send you some in the mail. I still have several sets of the different wheels boxed up somewhere around here. I still have the orginal drawings for them too. I still have several of the catalogs we did over the years, amazes me at what all we ending up making. I screwed up when I did not follow the touring crowd. I thought it was going to be like the Tamiya deal in the late 80's and last a year or so and fizzle out. Boy was I wrong.

James how in the world are you? I sure miss the days at the old Racers Haven. How is your brother doing? Guess we have all grown up a little but still like the toys.lol

This vintage forum is really cool. I would love to have a reunion with the guys that ran at Racers Haven, Saugus and Anticoh and Fast Eddies and all the places we ran in the early 90's. I miss the fellowship as much as the racing. I still have a lot of the old magazines from then. I pull them out every once and a while to look at and my kids think it is cool that I was in a lot of the old magazines. They ask me if I was famous, I tell them nearly.lol

Keep in touch

Joe

[MiniT21]

Still, easily some of the most beautiful items EVER made for R/C cars. By a LONG shot.

[/URL][URL="http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/vintage/tecnacraft/tecnacrafts_001.jpg"]http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/vintage/tecnacraft/tecnacrafts_001.jpg (http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/vintage/tecnacraft/tecnacrafts_001.jpg)



Hey Joe, still have any of the original Tecnacraft decals lying around? :D

i ran my first rc race when i was 7 years old with wheels that looked like that on a delta pan car.... Except for the centers on mine were pink..... That was in 91 or 92 when i did that.... some good memories...

[cars4fun2004]

Still, easily some of the most beautiful items EVER made for R/C cars. By a LONG shot.

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/vintage/tecnacraft/tecnacrafts_001.jpg (http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/vintage/tecnacraft/tecnacrafts_001.jpg)



Hey Joe, still have any of the original Tecnacraft decals lying around? :D


hey I had a set of those. I bought a rc10l something just for the wheels. The front outer piece was cracked and bent on both wheels so I machined them down to run o-rings and run the on my drag car. I got a lot of complements on them. sold them a while back and have kicked my self in the butt for doing so ever since.

Mike

[Brian Landgraff]

Hey Guys,

I haven't been on here in a while! Couldn't help but look at the Dominator thread. Very cool -Nice to see Gary & James active; how are you all?

We still have the original car with front & rear (cox scorpion) Thorp brass diffs with / gear reduction. Then we built (26) cars similar to Gary's. There were a few changes along the way...I used to be able to name their owners...Gary, Bob Novak, Kent Clausen, Rick Hohwart, Dave May, Eddie Norris, ...:)

We still have several sets of the tecnacraft wheels thanks to Steve Hattori. He still owns Salinas valley precision and does really nice machine work.

Any vintage questions; feel free to ask. And by the way Gary...is that sprint car the one I stepped on marshalling in 87' at the indoor Hot Rod Hobbies?? I felt soo bad...!! ( I stopped that sucker dead in it's tracks...Gary didn't even get mad.)

Take care - I'll try to check in more often!

Brian Landgraff

[gary mcallister]

Hi Brian-

Good to hear from you, hope you and your Dad are doing good...say hi for me.

That probably is the same sprint you stepped on. I'm surprised you remember that. I guess it doesn't matter if you are the step-or or the step-ee, you never forget those moments. After all these years racing, that certainly wasn't the only time that ever happened.

Do you remember that dirt oval race at the Ranch Pit Shop when Mike Tobey brought that Hirobo 4WD car from Japan and whipped everybody with the 2WD cars? Then came the Yokomos. I suspect that might have been the seed that started your thinking on the Dominator. You know, when you think about the basic concept, the Dominator was really the first 4WD Touring Car...we just didn't know it at the time.

Do you ever think about racing RC again...just for the fun of it? That's what I do now. I just race locally and have fun with the guys. Haven't raced nationally for 16 or 17 years now.

This is the guy to ask queations about the Custom Works early years.

See ya Brian...

Gary McAllister

[overlandovalracer]

WOW, GARY THAT WAS SOME OF THE COOLEST STUFF I'VE EVER SEEN ON ANY RC RELATED WEB SITE:D !!! THAT REALLY TOOK ME BACK TO WHEN I WAS ABOUT 13 W/NO CASH & RACED DIRT OVAL AT BRADS(IN MISSOURI, BRAD IS SADLY NO LONGER W/US), WITH MY BEST FRIEND,(ONCE AGAIN,TONY IS NO LONGER WITH US). TONY & I HAD KYOSHO OPTIMAS (CHRISTMAS PRESENTS), W/10 TURN RACE PREP MODS,NOVAK 4 SPEED CONTROLS,SANYO 1200SCR BATTERIES, MCALLISTER BODIES W/HUGE LEXAN SIDE BOARDS (THEY ALL LAUGHED AT US WHEN WE SHOWED UP WITH THE SIDE DAMS!!!), & CUT FOAM TIRES. I ALMOST BEAT A DOMINATOR ONCE, IT WAS AT THE 3 MIN. MARK & THE OTHER FOUR GUYS IN MY RACE W/DOMINATORS WERE HAMMERING ONE ANOTHER & I WAS LEADING,HAD IT BEEN A WEEK EARLIER I WOULD HAVE WON, BUT THEY OPTED TO GO FOR 4 MIN. FOR THE FIRST TIME THAT WEEK:mad: !!! ANYWAY, IT WAS A GREAT TIME TO BE A KID RACING EVERY WEEK W/MY FRIENDS EVEN IF I COULDN'T AFFORD THE APTLY NAMED DOMINATOR:checkeredflag: :checkeredflag: :checkeredflag:

[Doug Carter]

Welcome to the boards!

In case you weren't aware, typing in all CAPS on discussion board is considered SHOUTING and rude conduct. It is very difficult to read for most people, and is generally frowned on by forum members. I'm sure you didn't do it on purpose, but for next time, give the CAPS LOCK key one hit to turn it off so that people can read your posts. :thumbsup:




doug

[AscotConversion]

We still have the original car with front & rear (cox scorpion) Thorp brass diffs with / gear reduction.


I would love to see a picture of that! :thumbsup: (hint hint!!)

[overlandovalracer]

My bad:eek: ... I guess I was still wiping the sleep out of my eyes. I'll make sure not to SHOUT next time, so sorry for that, didn't mean any disrespect:checkeredflag: :checkeredflag: :checkeredflag:

[Doug Carter]

No biggie... most guys new to forums who type in all caps are engineer, draftsman, left-brained guys like my dad. Almost always is a force of habit. Just thought you'd like to know. :D

[FULLT1LT]

No biggie... most guys new to forums who type in all caps are engineer, draftsman, left-brained guys like my dad. Almost always is a force of habit. Just thought you'd like to know. :D


i must have picked this up in a blueprint reading class or something or it could also be from 10 years of tig welding and being unable to see the letters on this little bitty laptop.thanks for the tidbit of info doug i had never heard that before:D :ha: i dunno about left brained but i only like to make left turns:revs: :revs: :revs: :checkeredflag: :checkeredflag: :checkeredflag:

[MK Race]

THAT REALLY TOOK ME BACK TO WHEN I WAS ABOUT 13 W/NO CASH & RACED DIRT OVAL AT BRADS(IN MISSOURI, BRAD IS SADLY NO LONGER W/US), WITH MY BEST FRIEND,(ONCE AGAIN,TONY IS NO LONGER WITH US). :checkeredflag: :checkeredflag: :checkeredflag:

I also started racing at Brad's too. Sure do miss him and Tony. Were you there the night Brad's Dominator took off onit's own in the hobby shop? Seems he forgot to turn off the car and somebody was on his freq. Everybody back there was scrambling to get out of the way. Those were some of the best times.

Hey there Brian, nice to hear from you.

[rj14]

No biggie... most guys new to forums who type in all caps are engineer, draftsman, left-brained guys like my dad. Almost always is a force of habit. Just thought you'd like to know. :D

HA! I must be wierd......errr, I am and we all know that. But I started out as a graphic designer, and decided to fry my brain on physics and and materials and processes to become a half brained engineer of sorts.

And yes most of the time when I make the jump form my many CAD programs I forget to turn off the caps lock untill I get halfway through a post.:D

ANYWAYS- I like most others would like to see some pics of what Brian might have lying around......

[jherzog]

I've seen the prototype cars and they are awesome. Some very different than the dominator in the latest inarnation.

My first Dom was the IV wheny they were still in Apple Valley. If I remember correctly, some of the parts had yokomo tags on them (though I could be mistaken) Cost me over $500 back in 1987.

[hitman1965]

Brian,

I thought I had read that you and your dad had moved to NC with the company??? I am guessing from your post that is not true. I can remember being in Japan and reading Competition Plus and Car Action and reading about all the guys you mentioned plus those that others have mentioned in this thread. Its amazing I am this old 42. Anyway I love the pictures and the insite to what was really going on here in the states when I was in Japan.

I am so sad I missed that time. I love dirt oval now and especially this new slider from Losi. Its pure fun.


Almost like back to the roots where you can race and have FUN!

Thanks to all of you who are contributing to this thread its really great reading.

The Hitman

[teamhurricane]

Dont forget about the the trackmaster dd that was thrown out there to compete with the intimadators.Lol, Yeah i seen where someone else posted about a tamyia fox, i had a grasshopper 2 super g that i started oval with.Then if im not mistaken it was either christmas of 89 or 90, Associated came out with the rc10 championship graphite edition kit.I got that and the dominator for christmas.Ran 6 cell mod (i remember the set up ,novak 4 speed control,eastcoast,twister and cam motors and red 1200's).As far as the rc10 went, just got a Thorp 48 pitch transmission,Mcallaster lowering kit and a lumina wedge body (dont remember if the body was a mcallister or Cw).We started out running the rc10 in 2wd oval until the intimadator came out.Went from the thorp, to the newly introduced stealth,yokomo yz10 transmission,mip (stealth wanna be),trackmaster to having to brake down and buy a intimadator to keep up. LOL, man that was fun.Did any of you guys ever run the Roar Dirt Nats at Rc Hobby and Raceway in Burlington N.C?

[Brian Landgraff]

Hey Gary,

I do remember the first Hirobo..and the first (50) Yokomos Pops got at the Ranch (1985?) and how my Dad proudly walked up with one as I was soldering a Dean's connector on my over-the-counter Revtech stock motor for my Cox Scorpion. (If that doesn't take ya back I don't know what will!!)

Dad & I are doing well. I actually did race Gas Sprint at last year's Open Wheel Race. Tony's stuff keeps me very busy at that event as I take care of all of his cars. I will be racing at the warm-up event in October there in NC to test Tony's cars and I'm considering running gas sprint athe race in December.

You should come back and race with us!! The Open Wheel Race is a lot of fun - I can't believe we're going on 17 years with this race! I will if you will...:) It would be fun to get Bob Novak out as well.

I have a Buddy who wants to get into R/C and I've considered going with him. We'll see.

Take care, Brian

[Brian Landgraff]

Hey Hitman,

We didn't move to NC with the business. We still do some consulting and stay in close contact with Rob. I see Tony several times throughout the year as well. I did actually consider moving to NC last year...even looked at houses...the timing just wasn't right.

I wish you could've had more involvement in what I'd term the "Golden" era of Dirt Oval....It was a lot of fun. I got to race in every place imaginable and made a lot of lifelong friends. Most of my good friends live in other states (And I met them through R/C) to this day! :)

Take care, Brian

[Brian Landgraff]

Hey Team Hurricane -

I did race in Burlington at the roar nats in 1989 - finished 2nd to Erik Soderquist in 4wd mod...good times!

[gary mcallister]

Hi Brian-
Thanks for the invite, but I'd be a fish out of water. I rarely leave Northern Arizona and we have no Dirt Oval here.

I do remember one other wacky thing I did with my Dominator. Somewhere in the mid 80s I took it to one of the early Whippoorrwill races on the banked concrete oval. I don't think we had made 1/10 Pan Cars yet. I think Bob Novak brought his Dominator too. EEEEOOOOWWWW!

See Ya

Gary

[Brian Landgraff]

Hey Gary,

I understand totally...you're always welcome though. You would be impressed with the race! Dad & I went to the Whippoorwhill race in 86' (or '87) as well. I have pics of all of us standing in the infield. Marc & Darwin Grey were there from CA as well. We all ran the cars without the front chains. I still have the set of Pro-Line Waffle tires I loaned you to run on your car as a matter of fact!!

BL

[Sonic]

Hey Gary,

I understand totally...you're always welcome though. You would be impressed with the race! Dad & I went to the Whippoorwhill race in 86' (or '87) as well. I have pics of all of us standing in the infield. Marc & Darwin Grey were there from CA as well. We all ran the cars without the front chains. I still have the set of Pro-Line Waffle tires I loaned you to run on your car as a matter of fact!!

BL
vintage rules!:thumbsup: