Thoughts on tire rules

[sprinter117]

http://panitrotour.proboards92.com/i...0290621&page=1 (http://panitrotour.proboards92.com/index.cgi?board=generaltourdicussions&action=display&thread=1180290621&page=1) :D

[Tom S]

I think the problem with foams is teching traction compounds. It doesn't matter what the label on the bottle says, it's what has been put inside.

The nice thing about rubber tires is it levels the playing field. It's almost like a spec tire.

[kipp]

down here in nc we dont tech traction compounds. people run what ever they want and guess what!! there are no issues, the track surfaces are some of the best ive ever seen. ive won races using nothing on my tires. most of the time i use gojo. sometimes i will use grease if i feel i need it. to me the traction compound issue is only a issue if you make it one. dont tech for traction compound and then its not a issue. dont think for a minute that people dont mess with the rubber tires because they do.

[Doug Carter]

I hate these discussions because everyone has a different idea of what will work and what doesn't.

For instance, I think the rubber tire rules absolutely DON'T create a level playing field, but in fact, make it MUCH worse when guys start experimenting with rubber softeners, traction compounds, inserts, stitching and taping to keep tires from ballooning, as well as other issues like availability of certain tires.

Foam tires are great, but they have their own set of issues that come along with them (wear, need for truers, ability to groove, etc.)



There is no right answer, but a simple solution is a loose dirt surface that isn't abrasive. Learn how to drive without 100% adhesion and you'll see a lot better racing in the long run.

[Mudonthetires]

It is true that either tire has it's pros and cons. I have run both. I have never run grease on foams because the tracks where I ran did not allow it. From what I understand is that the track becomes water repellent from grease so it won't take in moisture from watering. I don't know but maybe you don't have to water a track that lets you use grease.

[rj14]

Kipp-

You know the #'s we get at a track on average for a Saturday night. I only know of one track on a weekly basis that thier track prep would undue everything that one night of racing with everyone using grease. Other than that in the long run the average track with the number of cars that run up here, greasing the tires would eventually effect the track. Keep in mind this whole debate has started because one track has made the switch to an open tire rule in an effort to draw more cars. Another track is looking at allowing them as well, but they are doing it for one night this year on a non-points night, for a possible switch for next year.

[rj14]

You know what, it isn't worth it. I have both rubbers and foams with me where ever I go anyways, so just put up a sign at the tech table telling us which tires we can run for the day and leave it at that. Or better yet, put three pieces of paper in a hat, with the words, rubbers, foams and open. draw a piece of paper out, and that is what we run for the day. Lets make it interesting at least. They are toy cars, and they are just tires. You put gas in them and drive in circles. I don't do this for a living, and never will. At least not until I am retired. So I have at least 30 years before that happens. LOL! So lets just race and have fun.

[kipp]

no problem. just say no to grease.

[rj14]

no problem. just say no to grease.

C'mon I say let anything go at this point! Besides learning what I have over the past year from the guys up north, I never leave home w/o grease! LOL!:D ;) ;)

Besides from what I am going through w/ my divorce, my ex never goes to court w/o it. She doesn't want to hurt me too bad when I take it in the rear!:ha:

[ctsieber]

Besides from what I am going through w/ my divorce, my ex never goes to court w/o it. She doesn't want to hurt me too bad when I take it in the rear!:ha: LOL!

[DaBearsNo13]

I got nothing....:ha:

[Bigben]

I have run both foams and rubbers. I have only recently started running foams. I know barely a thing about foams. however I do know how to up keep rubber tires. I have never had one chunk in the middle of a race though I have had them come off the rim before. mainly because of my own stupidity of not glueing them tight to the rim. all I do with em is clean em with simple green and they work. the first time I ever ran foams I thought wow these things are great. car is a lot more stabler through the turns and a lot easier to drive because the car was not so twitchy. later on around 3 nights of racing. I see they need re turned and thus throws everything out the window. I got to change gearing I have to make sure whoever I get to true my tires down gets em close and then I have to groove em. I am not to good at holding on to a tire and a dremel tool since a accident to my right hand. so again I normally ask someone else to groove em for me also. I normally give em a buck or two and a thank you for their services. rubber tires the above is not needed. no grooving just stuff a foam into em and then glue em on the rim. If someone gives me a set of tires today and I was expected to run them all night rubbers would win out in that battle. but now with everyone going to a open tire rule especially after many cursed and sweared at a open tire rule last year. are now saying I guess it aint that bad. this will make the ones that want to race buy the faster of the two tires. which in todays racing atmosphere at all the tracks in the nitro tour the foams will be the faster of the two. mainly because all the tracks are high bite tracks. and don't tell me well it is a open tire rule run whatever you want. no one wants to run last. they may say they are just there to have fun and do not care if they are not fast but when they are on the track out of the A main they want them top two positions to bump up. there isn't a person out there that when you ask em how are ya runnin today they say "my car is the best it has ever been I think I am going to dial myself out." that is just stupid.

anyhow JMHO takereasy ben smyser

[Rcer19]

Ben, there are alot of people out there who know what to do with foams, IE: mount them, true them and groove them, i am sure someone would be willing to help you out, let me know and i will do them for you, as far as chunking them, yes it happens, but i have also burned off a right rear or right front in 1 or 2 heats too, so lets not start this assinine crap again
As for what to put on tires? i use simple green on rubber OR foams
If you are not sure what to do with foams i have to ask, HOW many times did you glue your fingers to the wheels on rubber tires?
Look you people are making a big deal out of nothing AGAIN !!!!!!!
You only hear and read what you narrow little minds want to read and see, there is no rule thats says "you must run foams", just like the sidedams on the LM's, there is no rule saying you HAVE TO run 1,
My opinion is that ALL the tracks on the tour voted for rubbers, SO if LVS wants to change to foams thats fine, but the tour race is run on rubbers, just like Newville's was last year,
there is something called "creditability" do not lose it

[Bigben]

this will make the ones that want to race buy the faster of the two tires. which in todays racing atmosphere at all the tracks in the nitro tour the foams will be the faster of the two. mainly because all the tracks are high bite tracks. and don't tell me well it is a open tire rule run whatever you want. no one wants to run last. they may say they are just there to have fun and do not care if they are not fast but when they are on the track out of the A main they want them top two positions to bump up. there isn't a person out there that when you ask em how are ya runnin today they say "my car is the best it has ever been I think I am going to dial myself out." that is just stupid.

anyhow JMHO takereasy ben smyser


^^^^this part was to combat the run what ever tire you want. ^^^

as far as help with the use of foams. a lot of people have offered to help me with them in general. and I am grateful for that. but after a while it gets to be annoying to me and to the person that does them. main reason is having to wait until the person has the time to do it. I do not expect that person to drop everything and groove a set of tires. that is just plain selfish. personally I have never burned off a right rear in a main. maybe I aint goin that fast. anyhow I will probably ending up runnin whatever we agree on as a group. again JMHO.

[Racersnow]

"My opinion is that ALL the tracks on the tour voted for rubbers, SO if LVS wants to change to foams thats fine, but the tour race is run on rubbers, just like Newville's was last year,
there is something called "creditability" do not lose it"

AMEN Nick, I may take you up on the foam tire class someday

[kipp]

i got it !! finish the remainder of this years tour on rubber then open the tire rule up next year. to even out the playing field everyone should have the option to run foams except for phil cooper. i would bet that he would still win a few.

[sprinter117]

Ben, there are alot of people out there who know what to do with foams, IE: mount them, true them and groove them, i am sure someone would be willing to help you out, let me know and i will do them for you, as far as chunking them, yes it happens, but i have also burned off a right rear or right front in 1 or 2 heats too, so lets not start this assinine crap again
As for what to put on tires? i use simple green on rubber OR foams
If you are not sure what to do with foams i have to ask, HOW many times did you glue your fingers to the wheels on rubber tires?
Look you people are making a big deal out of nothing AGAIN !!!!!!!
You only hear and read what you narrow little minds want to read and see, there is no rule thats says "you must run foams", just like the sidedams on the LM's, there is no rule saying you HAVE TO run 1,
My opinion is that ALL the tracks on the tour voted for rubbers, SO if LVS wants to change to foams thats fine, but the tour race is run on rubbers, just like Newville's was last year,
there is something called "creditability" do not lose it


No one ever said the rule was going to change this season. This has gotten blown way out of proportion....................:mad: all I wanted was some opinions and not track or people bashing there is no need to call people names or say they have narrow minds . Nick you and I have had many conversations about tires and you know my feelings about them and I know yours and they differ greatly but I do not think anyless of you for your opinions and I would hope that you feel the same towards me. The rules are the rules as far as I am comcerned they were set by us and the tracks together and I do not feel they should change. I raised the questions because all the tracks voted for rubber tires at the meeting and now it seems they (maybe not all) have changed their minds. I also do not think that every track is or can be a "foam" tire track foams are not faster everywhere!


-Bill Albright

[Bigben]

just to clear the air my post is a opinion of me. this matter will be discussed amongst the group. this is why we have a commitee. takereasy

[paarcher2000]

Dang right bill!!!! There way out of proportion!!!!!!!!!

[paarcher2000]

" I made the decision to go to the open tire rule in an effort to make the racing better here at LVS in ALL the classes not anyone in particular. The move was made in an effort to hopefully make the cars more stable and have cleaner races on the daylight surface.
That was the only reason, period. Trying in the long run to make things better, that's all. I was not influenced by anyone person or organization but by the opinions of several different people that I spoke with over the past several weeks. As I said at the drivers meeting I held before the races this past week, it was not an easy decision for me to make. But I made it and will stand on it. I'm sorry if my decision has offended anyone, but I felt and still feel it was the right one to make for LVS and its future. John"

www.libertyvalleyspeedway.com (http://www.libertyvalleyspeedway.com/)
parcdirtovalcom.proboards79.com/index.cgi (http://parcdirtovalcom.proboards79.com/index.cgi)

[Bruce]

My opinion is that ALL the tracks on the tour voted for rubbers, SO if LVS wants to change to foams thats fine, but the tour race is run on rubbers, just like Newville's was last year,





pretty sure all the tour races last year were on rubber tires , not just Newville and LVS going to open tire rule has nothing to do with the Pa. Nitro Tour

Bruce

[Rcer19]

you are right bruce, my point was that we had open tire nights at Newville and the Championship race was open, but the next day the tour race was rubber,
Bill you are right we have had this discussion before, lol, and trust me i hold no hard or ill feelings towards anyone, My opinion was just to keep the Tour rubbers this year and not change the rule, for a creditability and integrity sake,

[sprinter117]

you are right bruce, my point was that we had open tire nights at Newville and the Championship race was open, but the next day the tour race was rubber,
Bill you are right we have had this discussion before, lol, and trust me i hold no hard or ill feelings towards anyone, My opinion was just to keep the Tour rubbers this year and not change the rule, for a creditability and integrity sake,



I could not agree more Nick......it seems maybe my first post lead everyone to belive we were changing the rules for this season but I honestly did not mean to change for this season . At the meeting for next year we will as always let the tracks decide what tires to run on the tour next season.:D

[Bruce]

My opinion was just to keep the Tour rubbers this year and not change the rule, for a creditability and integrity sake,


Nick ,

I agree with you on that ..........Bill screwed everything up , LOL J/K


Bruce

[Dlan44]

Guys, this is the third time this year I have heard the same problem discussed in totally different areas of the country. The arguements are always the same and the hurt feelings are the same as well. Usually resulting in car counts going down.

Your committe has to make decisions based on what is best for your Tour. I would bet that most of the guys running the tour has a significant investment in tires for this years rule. Give them a break. After all it is the same tracks and similar cars that everyone races, Points have already been scored. All good reasons to leave it alone this year. There has to be a REALLY good reason to change a rule mid year. I was faced with that myself. The racers and tracks presented a good arguement for change. That is why RC Pro Dirt Oval Series now has 4min. heats and mains. We had already run a divisional and it was a little/no impact change for the rest of the season, and the points.

If in 2008, if you do go to an open tire rule, I suggest that you let the tracks specify tires, and or traction compounds for their facility via a supplemental regulation where applicable. The track is then also responsible for policing the rule. The only exception for us is that we will not allow a track to specify any tire or traction compound that they do not have redily available to ALL the racers.

Give Bill a break, it is a thankless job. Go race and have fun!
There is plenty of time for a change next year.

[Animal]

Give Bill a break, it is a thankless job. Go race and have fun!
There is plenty of time for a change next year.


We cant give Bill a break if we do he will slack off. We need to keep him on his toes:beer:

[sprinter117]

We cant give Bill a break if we do he will slack off. We need to keep him on his toes:beer:



:ha::ha::ha:

[mike1976]

Personally i say take a pole and use the results toward next year/season's tour rules and what the track owners agree upon. As far as tires, either rubber or foam can be fast. I happen to like both. However i think rubber may be a little more cost effective for newbies or guys like myself who arent able to make all the tour races. Just my 2 pennies! :D

[brockh]

Personally i say take a pole and use the results toward next year/season's tour rules and what the track owners agree upon. As far as tires, either rubber or foam can be fast. I happen to like both. However i think rubber may be a little more cost effective for newbies or guys like myself who arent able to make all the tour races. Just my 2 pennies! :D
I would agree with your statement that rubber tires would be cost effective for newbies...typically newbies are going to be quick to chunk foams and get frustrated with it.... now the big argument is rubber tires aren't competitive with foams, if the newbies are running rubber tires they would probably be qualified where they would be had they been running foams( provided they didn't chunk every run) and now they have saved money because when they smashed the wall and did 17 flips down the backstretch they didn't chunk a tire. The competitive guys that are running super hard can save money using foams because instead of wearing out a set of rubber tires in 4 mins the foams can be touched up and ran for several races to come. the more people around here that try them, seem like its all they want to run, although there are several exceptions!

[rj14]

They are round (sometimes) and go on the end of those metal doohickies, and are held on by those thingamabobs. And in order to properly control the car they are a necessity. I have all kinds of them and can drive just as poorly with one type or another. So I guess it really doesn't matter until it becomes a poll (brass of course w/ a midget attached to it) issue at the end of the year.:D

[mike1976]

What the heck are you doing if youre burning up a set of tires in a 4 min. race. I'm running strykers i got used last season? :confused:

[ctsieber]

What the heck are you doing if youre burning up a set of tires in a 4 min. race. I'm running strykers i got used last season? :confused:

running hard

[Bigben]

on some tracks with some cars it will burn the right side tires off. I know my right front allways suffers at staubs. the rears seem to last a good bit for me but I am not running a rody either. it seems that the smaller tires that are used on the sprints latemodels and edms are the ones wearing. I know brock has worn a good many out but there is not too many times he is not on the throttle.

[mike1976]

Just for curiosity's sake are you guys running the softer m2 compound? Mine may be the m3 compound.

[Rcer19]

Ben, i have had the same set on my edm for 3 weeks with very little wear, thats 6 heats and 3 mains and about 7 practice runs, Bottom line fellows, its all about setup!!!!!!

[signman501]

Just for curiosity's sake are you guys running the softer m2 compound? Mine may be the m3 compound.


Most of these guys are running the CW rubber tires for sprints and intimidator chassis on 2.0 wheels. Most of the guys with truck's use the 2.2 wheels and don't get as much tire where as the tire compound is much harder. Brock is a very hard driver who spends very little time off the throttle, 40 - 48 laps in 4 min.

So far we haven't seen as much tire wear at Staub's as in the past. We will see this Sunday as it will be the first day race this year. I think the tires are wearing better than last season.

[Arnie Fie]

This will matter regardless of what tires everyone is running...

I remember 2 seasons ago we had no rain and the same problem where tires were wearing considerably in one run. Then before the tour race, it rained all week, and Rob came up to race and see what was going on with the wear issues.

When he got back, he had on the same used tires he bolted on when he left. Basically it all came down to adding some water (2 1/2 days of rain) or a little track prep. I am not throwing stones at any of the "track saints" and the other wonderful people who prepare a track each to race on, however having rain or not watering enough makes a big difference in this discussion. That poor little water-hose is no match for what on cloud does and unfortunately it has been a dry summer so far.

Are any of the tracks covering their track during the week with plastic tarps? Do they have a small aireator to help get the water thru the hard packed clay? A box of poly and aireator is not free, but a having a 50/50 at each tour race or even the club nights at each race might be enough to give back to the tracks that don't have one, and help everyone else as well. Tire choice is not going to end the problems you are facing.

[Bigben]

Ben, i have had the same set on my edm for 3 weeks with very little wear, thats 6 heats and 3 mains and about 7 practice runs, Bottom line fellows, its all about setup!!!!!!


I was talking about rubbers. ;)

but on a second note I have chunked three left fronts from the inside out. does anyone know why it is chunking. it seems to be the same size chunk.

[kipp]

the last time i chunked a tire was when coopers had the boiler plate inside wall. ben, it sounds like your lf is making contact with something on your car under racing conditions.

[ctsieber]

hitting the inside wall in the turns will do that.

I was talking about rubbers. ;)

but on a second note I have chunked three left fronts from the inside out. does anyone know why it is chunking. it seems to be the same size chunk.

[rj14]

This will matter regardless of what tires everyone is running...

I remember 2 seasons ago we had no rain and the same problem where tires were wearing considerably in one run. Then before the tour race, it rained all week, and Rob came up to race and see what was going on with the wear issues.

When he got back, he had on the same used tires he bolted on when he left. Basically it all came down to adding some water (2 1/2 days of rain) or a little track prep. I am not throwing stones at any of the "track saints" and the other wonderful people who prepare a track each to race on, however having rain or not watering enough makes a big difference in this discussion. That poor little water-hose is no match for what on cloud does and unfortunately it has been a dry summer so far.

Are any of the tracks covering their track during the week with plastic tarps? Do they have a small aireator to help get the water thru the hard packed clay? A box of poly and aireator is not free, but a having a 50/50 at each tour race or even the club nights at each race might be enough to give back to the tracks that don't have one, and help everyone else as well. Tire choice is not going to end the problems you are facing.

I do know Staubs has an aireator and a fire truck, so water there isn't really an issue.

[Bigben]

hitting the inside wall in the turns will do that.

I guess that is the only thing it could be. I know I clipped it a few times this week.

[signman501]

Wall's are the chunking problem! Heck then I won't have any tires left cause I hit the inside wall, outside wall, inside wall, outside wall, etc., etc., etc.

[Animal]

Wall's are the chunking problem! Heck then I won't have any tires left cause I hit the inside wall, outside wall, inside wall, outside wall, etc., etc., etc.


Glen

YOur supposed to be racing, not testing the tracks construction, and wall maintance. Just be glad they dont send you the bill for repainting :beer: :p

[kipp]

glen, mount a set of rollers to both sides of your car. that should solve your wall problem!!

[signman501]

Just imagine if they would let me have a beer:beer: :D

[cj funk]

It is what it is for the rules this year. KEEP your dignity. Next year catch up with the times. GGOO FOAM:thumbsup:

[rj14]

glen, mount a set of rollers to both sides of your car. that should solve your wall problem!!


I will make a set of Kydex outriggers and mount some large bearings on them. That way he can just pull the throttle and let 'er rip! The only problem will be avoiding pit wall openings!:D :D

[ctsieber]

I will make a set of Kydex outriggers and mount some large bearings on them. That way he can just pull the throttle and let 'er rip! The only problem will be avoiding pit wall openings!:D :D

maybe make a set of curb feelers for him ! :D

[rj14]

maybe make a set of curb feelers for him ! :D

:ha: .......now hmm. that gives me an idea! Wait till you see his car on Sunday!;)

[signman501]

????:tire:

[rj14]

????:tire:


:ha: :ha: :ha: you will have to wait and see!

[ctsieber]

:ha: .......now hmm. that gives me an idea! Wait till you see his car on Sunday!;)


I think Glenn should be scared

[brockh]

tech is going to be fun i can see it now

[rj14]

tech is going to be fun i can see it now

LOL! ;)

[mike1976]

Is thier a rubber truck tire of choice per say? I have stryker2's, Duratrax streettrax, and road hawgs. :confused: :beer: Well I'm thinking of it, is it ok to camp out there for the night on site?

[brockh]

i will try to answer all your questions.... Strykers/street tracs should serve you well at staubs.. as far as camping out, not positive but i think you can...i'm thinking about staying in my trailer.

[mike1976]

Ah, thanks apreciate the info! :D

[JohnnyO]

Wow 3 pages! about tires and we're getting ready for race number 3......... My 1st comment is, the Truck class will be in full force this weekend, and I guaranty the top 10 "A" Main drivers would be the same on Foams or Rubber Tires......... #2 the foam tires that tend to chunk, are the less expensive type, not the "Euro" rubber or RADS....... #3 tire machines are expensive and it's hard to find a good one that will do truck foams......#4 it's not fair to compare the CW race tires for Sprints & EDMs to ProLine Strikers & DuraTrax for Trucks.......#5 Tire ware is do to; the track, tire softness, HP and the driver, all top ten truck drivers will probably burn up a RR in the main!!......#6 this issue about tires seems to revolve around $$$$$..... one good hi $$ spare engine cost more then all the tires one car will burn up for the complete Tour....... #7 is the PA Tour looking to promote new RC Racers, or is it for the established Old Pros??..... #8 is the Truck class for beginners or has PA raised the bar and a PA Gas Truck is as serious as the Sprint, EDM's and 2WD Late Models??

See you at STAUBS......................johnnyO

PS The bottom line about RC racing is Attitude and Expectation............ I Guaranty you I'm going to have a Great Time!! Seeing friends, and racing toy cars always gives me a grin! Looking forward to trying to making the main, then staying out of trouble and trying to finish, and hopefully top 3!

[StaubBrothers]

Mike,

You may spend the night at the track, however, nice hotels are only about ten minutes away also--your choice. If you click the information on our site about the Tour, you will find local hotel information also. See you at the track!

[mike1976]

Call me nutz but i'm planing on sleeping in my Dakota! :D :beer:

[Mudonthetires]

#7 is the PA Tour looking to promote new RC Racers, or is it for the established Old Pros??..... johnnyO



I think any tour type race is for more skilled racers. They don't have to be Old Pros, they can be young pros also.

[brockh]

The tour is catered to RACERS not new ones not old ones but all racers....it is a place for new people to experience racing on a larger scale and for the people that have been with the hobby a little to sharpen their skills...and as far as the old pros it is designed to keep them on their toes because the new racers aren't staying new for very long before they become very competitive.... it is set up to promote the growth of racers in dirt oval because if there is a decline in new racers the "old pros" will soon not have a place to race, we all need to do our part to help out those getting into the hobby to asure our being able to compete in the future.

[catawissarocket]

The tour is catered to RACERS not new ones not old ones but all racers....it is a place for new people to experience racing on a larger scale and for the people that have been with the hobby a little to sharpen their skills...and as far as the old pros it is designed to keep them on their toes because the new racers aren't staying new for very long before they become very competitive.... it is set up to promote the growth of racers in dirt oval because if there is a decline in new racers the "old pros" will soon not have a place to race, we all need to do our part to help out those getting into the hobby to asure our being able to compete in the future.
Well said:tire: :thumbsup: