Looking for help on a CW Late Model Gas

[peanutsprint9]

I am way out to lunch on this car. Perhaps someone could give me some insight on this before I pull what hair I have left out. I'm not sure exactly what kind of info you guys will want, but here goes. Thanks in advance.

Eldora body - 2" spoiler in back, 2.5" side dam

LF - Red spring - 40 wt oil
RF - Copper spring - 40 wt oil
LR - Blue spring - 80 wt oil
RR - Blue spring - 60 wt oil

RAD B tires all the way around, no prep...unless you include hand cleaner??

Car is very unstable. At the start of the practice night, I had all 4 shocks set that they were basically just touching the springs. By halfway through the night the right rear shock adjuster was all but out of threads. Car is very skaty down straights, and very loose through both turns.

Any help that you have, or if you need more info, I will try to answer you the best way I can. I'm just looking to have fun with this car, unfortunately that has not happen yet.

Thanks
Rick

[93TA]

rick,

are the blue rear springs tc3? what are u running for toe? what were you trying to accomplish moving the rr preload down?

i would start by going w/ outlaw springs on the rear, and taking preload off the rr. if your loose, you want to add wedge(preload the rf and lr).

[peanutsprint9]

As far as the right rear, I was having a problem with the car pulling to the right going down the straights under power, a friend was trying to help me, and he dialed the spring down about halfway, and it helped alot.

Toe is straight up, maybe out a very tiny bit.

oh, all the springs are TC3 springs, I ran out of time with the car, so unfortunately that was as far as we got with it for the night. Would love to race it on Sunday, but not like it was driving last night?!?!?

[rj14]

was this @ bumps?
Something I have seen some of the guys do before hitting the track is adding about 2.5 oz of weight to the front and rear of the car, this has helped them not be so touchy.It greatly improved my cars handling. Also like Larry said too much preload on the rr. I was always told if you go more than half of your adjustment on the shock collar it is time to go up a spring rate.

[93TA]

sorry should have clarified... i was asking about your rear toe setting. however make sure you have somewhere between 0deg toe to 1deg toe in(basically go aim for 0 toe and error on the side of toe in rather than out). also, i would adjust the pull to right on the straight w/ the radio not the rr especially when fighting a loose condition.

[Doug Carter]

A simple suggestion (something I do) when the car is completely off and out of whack, is to go back to a neutral baseline. Your very stiff and unbalanced rear shock setup isn't helping you here—it's hurting you a lot. When your car is spinning out, simply put your tires aren't stuck to the ground. You need to increase traction on the corners not getting traction by softening those corners of the car.


I would take all 4 shocks off the car, take all 4 springs off the shocks, take all of the oil out of all 4 shocks and make sure that you have the same pistons in all 4 shocks (#2), fill them all with 30wt oil, make sure they are all the same length, put CW 8lb outlaw springs (or Associated RC10 silver buggy springs) on all 4 shocks, put them all back on the car, set your ride height level at about 7mm (more or less depending on your track surface) and go from there.

If the car is loopy entering the corner, tighten the RF (or go to a blue Associated TC spiring). If the car is loopy coming off the corner, tighten the RR (or go to a blue Associated TC spring).




Start soft and balanced, and work up from there.




-doug

[Doug Carter]

BTW, if I have to use more than 3 or 4 turns of a shock collar to weight jack, go to the next firmer spring up or down (depending on which way you are turning).

Also, 2wd cars in my opinion, like a slight bit of front toe-in to help track straight. Toe out makes the car darty and wander on the straights.

[peanutsprint9]

Thank you all very much. These are all awesome points, I will definitely try to go back to basics with this car. A very good friend gave me the setup that I am trying, the problem is, he has way more experience than I do.

Thanks again everybody

Rick

[peanutsprint9]

One thing I did forget to mention...is it a problem if the shock adjuster is already about a quarter of the way down the shock before it touches the spring???

These shocks are setup alot different than my CW sprint car, but they are susposedly the same shocks (TC3). When I was assembling the car, I did not pay much attention to the adjuster, but I am now!!

I am not sure if it's something I did wrong, or if it should be that way.

Thanks again everybody, this forum is awesome. Without it, I would have been scratching my head for weeks


Rick

[rj14]

One thing I did forget to mention...is it a problem if the shock adjuster is already about a quarter of the way down the shock before it touches the spring???

Rick


Nope it is normal, that is just how it works out w/ the spring length.

[Doug Carter]

One thing I did forget to mention...is it a problem if the shock adjuster is already about a quarter of the way down the shock before it touches the spring???

These shocks are setup alot different than my CW sprint car, but they are susposedly the same shocks (TC3). When I was assembling the car, I did not pay much attention to the adjuster, but I am now!!


Not at all. There may be longer shock shafts in the shocks, but that won't effect the performance, just the amount of shock length that you have to work with. Measure them all when you have the springs and perches off and make sure they are all the same length. As long as they are the same L to R, you should be ok. The rears can be longer, but you're probably best off starting out with them all the same length.



-doug

[Arnie Fie]

Latemodel Set-up....

Springs
Copper or Purple RF probably Purple for Coopers, Copper for dry/flat tracks
Red LF
With sway bar .063": Try Blue RF and Silver LF springs

Shocks
40wt, stock positions, most stood up position on GSX INT tower. Lengthen shocks .080-.100" from kit instructions.

Long wheelbase

Low roll holes on susp mounts, camber links on castor blocks, 15 deg blocks, .050" under front susp black for more kickup.

Lead LF forward versus RF by .060-.080. Do this by grinding some material off the LF castor block, add shims to slide the castor block forward.

Weight....all to rear, rec pack behind motor on extreme LR corner of chassis, 1 oz weight mounts off back of rear tower.

Rear: Outlaw 60 wt, middle or 2nd hole from inside on tower, stock camber link locations, 2 deg toe on LR, 1 deg toe on RR, low holes on bearing carrier, .050 under front of toe-block, bearing carrier in the middle.

4 pinks, front 4 slices, very narrow groove, rears 7 truer grooves, crosses every .225 apart.

Eldora, with extra 1/4" kickup from stock template on spoiler. Side Dam from rear of spoiler to 2 3/8" from front axle, 5" high from top of deck.

Amen

[93TA]

Side Dam from rear of spoiler to 2 3/8" from front axle, 5" high from top of deck.

Amen

arnie,

i thought the rules said Side dam leading edge must be at least 3" behind center of front axle ?

[spacyracer]

I thought the air dam height was a total of 3 inches?

[signman501]

Sounds like Arnie's gonna get nailed in tech.

[Arnie Fie]

Hopefully when they are chopping down the side dam, they won't notice the body is 1/16" of a inch too far to the right. Consider the side dam a "distraction".

Been busy here, that is the e-mail I have been sending to those who have asked when the Cherryville race was coming up. Adapt it to the OW rules, change the RF from Copper to a Purple and you should be pretty good at Cooper's, atleast thats what I amhoping for myself. Take the .050 out from under the toe-blocks to help get a little more forward drive if necessary. Don't neglect you brake pad either, keep some 220grit with you to clean it from time to time. As with most gas set-ups, you need a little braking, the 220 will clean the pad and keep the braking consistant, not catchy and grabby like they do when the pad is glazed up.

Hope this helps

[signman501]

Thanks Arnie. I'll got lots of things to try when I get the LM ready to go.