Feedback needed

[sprinter117]

Please voice your opinion on the Late Model side dam rules at www.panitrotour.com

[Racersnow]

It makes the car much more stable, as long as the rule is written well, to avoid the gray area

[siggy99x]

I had registered a while back and can never seem to get loged in can you please check siggy99x is my user name my eamil is siggy99x@comcast.net Inever received anything that my acccount was registered thanks I want to vote.

This will be my first year running the tour and the only reason I am running is because of the latemodels I vote for sideboards if thats what all the tracks are running, I dont like the side board look but lets make all the rules the same so you can go race any place you want including the big races the only way this hobby is going to grow is with unifed rules. No spec engine I already have 2 enigines I sure cant justify buying another for 5 races Also lets run foam tires too, I was told that foam tires would be allowed in this series for 2007 What happpened?

[kipp]

the bigger the side damns, the faster the lap times. the crappier the racing becomes. they have been playing with side dams at thunder alley and they are running 5 1/2" side dams. last week they were running laps in under 4 seconds on 240' track. the cars are so fast it becomes a one groove raceline with minimal passing. without side dams the cars are real loose. if it was up to me i think small side dams 2.5" would be good.

[siggy99x]

The side dam rule that is made for the coopers race is the rule that all tracks should go by

[Smokinnitro]

unfornately the tour does not race at Coopers. This rule is being reviewed by the tour due to all the controversy it has caused. Do we need a class that is faster than the EDMs and Sprinters?

[kipp]

the problem with adding the latemodel class is that you are going to lose some sprints and edms. at thunder alley they havent had enough edms and sprinters the past few months to race. most guys went to the latemodels. im sticking with my sprint and edm.

[Dlan44]

It is a double edge sword guys.

The more stable the cars are the easier they are to drive, and race. ESPECIALLY for some one with lesser experience or skill. The other side of that is that they will take more power and most guys already over power their cars. So here you go........what do you do.
For RC Pro we are going to start with the Open Wheel Championships rule for 2wd, and we have cut down thw size of the dam on 4wd. We will probably decrease the sizs till we get to one that will stabalize the cars enough for newer racers yet not plant the cars so hard there is a run on $700 engines. The dam tends to be better for the foam tire tracks. You can usually get away with less dam with rubber tires since they sem to be more forgiving depending on the surface.
It is a juggling act. The sign of success will be when you begin to get new entries without diluting other classes.

[spacyracer]

Open Wheel Championships rule what is there rule for the 2wd late model's?

[kipp]

Open Wheel Championships rule what is there rule for the 2wd late model's?
2.5" side dams

[spacyracer]

Thanks Kipp. Thats what I thought but there has been so much talk on this i wanted to be sure..

[signman501]

What I see in our area is we are going to have a difference of track rules. We will probably have two tracks running foam tires with the Coopers rules with the small side dams and three tracks running rubber tires with no side dams, at least that is what I see here. Because have a wide range of racers, and lots of them in a small area I don't see a real dilution of many classes. If anything the edm class will get hurt the most. The sprint class will stay the same if not get larger, there is just a real following of that class here.

Because the Tour will run on rubber tires I think that the side dam should not be allowed. I know that it will be a burden on some racers so some people will have to decide how to handle the situation. Most of us have run on both types of tires so it will be up to each individual to decide whether to run the Tour or race elsewhere. If you run the PA Tour you just have to meet the rules, whatever they decide to do.

[rj14]

The rules are largely based on what the local tracks run so we don't have to make wholsale changes just to run the tour. Plus the tracks are an integral part of the tours survival. I think this discussion would be better served once the Tour recieves conformation of what the participating tracks rules packages will be. This way the tour comittee can make a decision based on current rules packages AND what feedback they recieve from the racers.No one entity here in this situation is bigger than the other, and the Comittee should realize that in order to keep things going there must be an open line of fair communication amongst all parties involved. If the rules are made so that any driver running any one tracks rules package can run the tour w/o making a ton of changes to thier car, they will at least try one of the races. And that is how these things grow and survive, small steps at time.

[pamodfan]

I'm all for no side dams. If you want unlimited traction and a car that is glued to the track, here's an idea, run carpet!!!:mad:

[kipp]

The rules are largely based on what the local tracks run so we don't have to make wholsale changes just to run the tour. Plus the tracks are an integral part of the tours survival. I think this discussion would be better served once the Tour recieves conformation of what the participating tracks rules packages will be. This way the tour comittee can make a decision based on current rules packages AND what feedback they recieve from the racers.No one entity here in this situation is bigger than the other, and the Comittee should realize that in order to keep things going there must be an open line of fair communication amongst all parties involved. If the rules are made so that any driver running any one tracks rules package can run the tour w/o making a ton of changes to thier car, they will at least try one of the races. And that is how these things grow and survive, small steps at time.
changing a side damn is no big deal. about 4 screws. i think side dams are what they are asking for feedback on.

[rj14]

changing a side damn is no big deal. about 4 screws. i think side dams are what they are asking for feedback on.

I realize that...... I have voted on the PA tour site. The problem with this whole discussion is that the latemodels @ a track that regularly runs them, runs them w/o the side dams, they are within 3 laps of the regular running edm's.... Is this NOT acceptable to everyone???? Plus of the average 100+ entries on aregular basis only 19 people have voted and voiced thier opinion.

This winter i vote we do an experiment we take one car, a CW Intimidator w/ the same engine set it up w/ an edm body run it for 4 mins by itself. Then after proper cooling down time we do it again configured as a latemodel (with the necessary shock changes and adjustments) w/o the air dam, and repeat again with the air dam. Then compare them all and include a 4 min solo run by a sprint car. Put the numbers out there for everyone to see. And then decide. I have a feeling that the #'s wont be so far off from one another that the esthetic majority will win out, and we will run w/o air dams.

I will even offer my car for someone to run for the experiment. we could do it one sunday eve @ bumps, I am sure we could work something out w/ the management:D

[Dlan44]

I have really enjoyed reading this thread. It has given me an insight into many opinions that can help us in the future.

Personally I think Rob has gone in the right direction. If a side dam makes the cars more stable and raceable.........so what if it is faster. If the car is easier to drive. the less chance there is for someone to take you out. Sure, someone is going to over power their car. That will be true with or without the side dam. Sure they can handle more power.........but there are ways around that as well. You could make the same arguements for the EDM sail panels and spoilers. What is good for one is good for the other.
I really enjoy realistic looking cars.........but.........if these cars were scaled up they would be going 300+mph on a track smaller than a 1/2 mile and your butt isn't in the seat to feel what it is doing. That being considered, the average driver needs all the help he can get to stabalize the car enough to race it without taking people out or getting discouraged and quitting the hobby. There has to be cost effective ways to make some classes more fun for the average guy. I think that is exactly what Rob and Arnie has done with the rule....
A left side dam will be allowed with the following dimensions: Max length 14", max height is 2.5" above deck plus a 1/2" bend at top.
BTW..........the way I read it is 2.5" + .5"= 3" total. That is far from a pizza box, yet for the purest not realistic. it is a happy medium.
CW has come up with a GOOD rules package, and i have used some of them as a baseline for our 2007 rules.
For the guy running a track, I doubt seriously he would turn down a racer at a weekly show for some lexan. For guys putting your own series together........do what is best for you to maximize and maintain your entries. After all guys.......we do this for fun.
Like I said before......double edged sword...........don't get too worked up over this. The Pa tour guys will run a good show and so will Rob.......regardless of a few rule variances.

[Smokinnitro]

Dlan 44 I think you are missing the point. We don't need a class faster than the one we have we need one that will bridge the gap between trucks and EDM, Sprinters. Having a full bodied car that can not handle all the power thrown at it will be easier to drive increasing competition

[Devastator]

Was there ever an official ruling on what was going to happen to the side dams? I went to add my vote to the poll on the PA Nitro Forum, but the thread was locked. I would like to use the rules from Coopers for the tour. I'm from the electric racing school of Bullit Wedge bodies with 7x14 inch side dams that were the fastest cars at the track. I don't think that the Nitro cars should go to that extreme, but I think the Coopers Ruling would give good stability and you would still have a competitive race.

[signman501]

Yes we are using the Cooper's Rules on the side dam as well as all classes.