Yay! Questions for the CW boys!

[Doug Carter]

We're gonna drive you guys nuts with all of the questions! :D So before you get sick of all of us, I'm gonna bug you guys early...




1) Any plans to change the battery trays in the electric cars for the larger and continuously growing high capacity cells? If not, are there plans for a new battery retention system?

2) It seems like many, if not most, run 0° rear toe on their electric and gas cars on high bite tracks. Any reason why the 1°/3° blocks are included in kits instead of the 0°/2° rear toe blocks?

3) I've heard rumors of a new Intimidator chassis with battery slots in a different configuration (did someone say Titan?). Any truth to this, and when will it be available? ;)

4) How about a body mount system for EDM bodies on the Intimidator chassis? Seems like a simple thing that isn't even accounted for in the holes in the stock chassis.

5) Any thought to producing a belted slick rear (thick enough for grooving) for your existing 2.0" wheels? Some people don't really enjoy chasing down out of production tires for rubber tire tracks.



I'm sure I'll have more. :D :D :D :cool:


<personal editorial>Keep up the good work, guys. Custom Works is tremendously important to everyone in dirt oval racing. We would not be here without you guys.</personal editorial>



doug

[Rob Cutman]

1) Any plans to change the battery trays in the electric cars for the larger and continuously growing high capacity cells? If not, are there plans for a new battery retention system? We certainly have considered it, to be honest a few people have asked about it but for the most part they will still work but are not perfect we know. The problem is as you say the batteries are "continuously growing" that makes it difficult to decide when and what size to make that change. Although it is a simple looking part, it does require a good bit of work and engineering to change the molds for them (there are more than one). Rumor has it ROAR (not that we care) is proposing a battery spec limit that will keep the cells from continuing to grow in size. As soon as that happens, if it does, we will get right on it.

2) It seems like many, if not most, run 0° rear toe on their electric and gas cars on high bite tracks. Any reason why the 1°/3° blocks are included in kits instead of the 0°/2° rear toe blocks? The decision to ship kits with 1 and 3 degree blocks was done so that the cars would be easiest to hook up on all track surfaces. Same reason the cars come with the 25 degree caster block. Makes it a much more forgiving, easier to drive car especially for less experienced drivers.


3) I've heard rumors of a new Intimidator chassis with battery slots in a different configuration (did someone say Titan?). Any truth to this, and when will it be available? ;) There is one prototype car that Phil Cooper has been running this summer, it is simply a test bed with a lot of options to try different ideas that we have. No set time frame for a new car as of yet, just seeing what all we can learn.

4) How about a body mount system for EDM bodies on the Intimidator chassis? Seems like a simple thing that isn't even accounted for in the holes in the stock chassis.
Part #1205 INTIMIDATOR GSX BODY MOUNT SUPPORT http://www.customworksrc.com/images/partnumbers/1205.jpg
Holes are allready in GSX Intimidator Chassis. Can be drilled easily enough in gbx. Retail price is $5.50 ea. Been out for a while but not on our site so thats our fault not yours.

5) Any thought to producing a belted slick rear (thick enough for grooving) for your existing 2.0" wheels? Some people don't really enjoy chasing down out of production tires for rubber tire tracks. Regarding chasing down oop tires, neither do we! lol. As you may know we were able to purchase the tooling for our street trac tires earlier this year. That has given us the technology to look at many different options when it comes to rubber tires. We are working on ways to produce belted tires not only with our existing tires but also with other tread styles. Also looking in to alternative rubber compounds that will increase tire life and maybe even performance. Biggest concern is keeping them affordable, thats always the hard part.


<personal editorial>Keep up the good work, guys. Custom Works is tremendously important to everyone in dirt oval racing. We would not be here without you guys.</personal editorial>

Thank you!

[Doug Carter]

Thanks for the time in responding, Rob. I really appreciate the feedback.

The tire thing is one of my biggest issues. I'm not a big fan of the mismatched tire sizes and wheels on a car (especially a car with fenders), changing axles and bearings to fit different wheels and tires, and unbelted buggy-sized rears expanding into Enforcer nerf bars is a sticky problem to try to work around. Though the new buggy slicks from Panther look to be a decent option (even though they aren't belted). It's getting better, but for guys who can't run foams, tires are still a sticking point keeping a lot of people away from certain tracks.

I'd love to see a matched set of tires or a collection of tires in a specific compound that could be used as a spec tire on tracks that require rubber tires. The best racing ever in Monee was when the ProLine Striker was the spec tire and everyone had the same stuff.





doug

[Rob Cutman]

Doug,
All very valid concerns. If you really want a spec tire it is real simple. Street Trac fronts and rears. Most of the places that run rubber tires run these and they work just fine. Yeah, slicks can be faster at some tracks but only on the cars that have them. Throwing out my personal opinion here I have to say that the midwest or at least the area around Moody's is the one place in the country where people tell me Oval is dying. Monee is the one place where guys run slicks on a normal basis which leads to some super fast racing. That area is also the only place where racers seem to be complaining about having to buy tricked out $400-$500 motors to keep up, I think was the quote. It's a simple solution if you look at the big picture. A whole set of Street Tracs with wheels and inserts cost less than $50.00 at full retail. On average they will last several weeks of racing, the cars wont be as hooked up, the $500 motors not needed, costs less to race. Less money to race means more people show up, get involved and stay involved.

Thanks,
Rob

[Doug Carter]

I agree with you 100%, Rob.

The slicks that are so soft, they stick to the wall are great for all-out fastest possible racing, but car counts in decline are telling. One thing Roy is doing now is a Limited Sprint class based on the OS CV red head motor, spec tires (Street Trac) and a restricted pipe and exhaust. For those guys who don't worry about costs and hand-crafting parts that can't be purchased, they can still race in an ulmited class. For the rest of us, there is a new hope.

I sold all of my nitro sprint gear years ago because of the difficulty in completing in the class and sourcing tires. With the new option, it's something I'm considering putting together again. A $100 motor plus the car seems like a good option, to me.

:D

[Rob Cutman]

That is great to hear. Hopefully it will help keep people interested and make the racing affordable. Just a word of caution and I am certainly not trying to start any gossip here. But I have been advised by a person within the hobbico corporate chain that OS was discontinuing the CV-R Motor. I certainly do not want to see that and the person only mentioned it because they saw a few threads where people were discussing the limited sprint class. No word if there was a replacement coming but I did see they are now releasing a .12 tgp motor next month. May be the replacement although it is quite a bit more expensive. Sucks!

[Doug Carter]

Is the entire CV lineup destined to be discontinued or just the CV-R?

I think most of the Limited Sprint class is being developed around the simple $79 OS CV .12 (red block head), and not the more powerful motors in the CV line. I certainly hope that OS sees the need for an inexpensive .12 like the CV in their product line. I've already started to try to figure out what headers can be used in a sprint car on that motor...

:mad:

[rchavok]

I would like to try several of the Custome works tires but I was wondering if they would fit on an associated truck. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks for your time.

[LRE]

Doug,

I have a very good source at OS that says the oscv12 engine has been discontinued and all that are left are what Great Planes has on the shelf.... you may want to pick another engine to base your Spec class engine rules on .....


Jack

[Doug Carter]

Wow, that's really terrible news.

:(

[mikejhs82]

Hey there is a line of motors. S&H engines are a good running inexpensive line of motors. Luke at the Hidden hanger has them. If you get around him check them out. They are available from Hobby People or their distribution network, for the folks reading this who arentin PA.Here is a link to the engine specs that should interest veryone.

http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/147004.asp
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/147001.asp

[bumps and jumps rc]

Doug you can never go wrong with the AE motors - 12 or 15, reliable and cheap The only downside is they only come in a pull start version - they do sell backplates though.

[kipp]

my son has been beating the crap out of his AE .15 all season and it still runs great !! another idea for spec class is put a 100.00 claimer rule in place. that way racers can buy a cheap engine of thier choice.

[Dlan44]

Doug,

I have a very good source at OS that says the oscv12 engine has been discontinued and all that are left are what Great Planes has on the shelf.... you may want to pick another engine to base your Spec class engine rules on .....


Jack

We are actively looking at this issue. RC Pro has a Spec Sprint class offered Nationally based on the O.S. Red Head. Our problem is finding an alternate engine with similar perfotmance and cost. A Dynamite .12S was suggested to us but I am not so sure it is still in existance either. Ofna Force .12 as well as the AE has been mentioned as well. Personally, I would like to stick to a low cost side exhaust .12.

[Doug Carter]

Del, with the inexpensive side exhaust motors, how has header fittment been with those in a sprint car? Are there off-the-shelf headers to buy that will allow a GT pipe to fit with no modifications to an Enforcer or similar sprint cage? I recall CRD making a header that was slightly extended to get a pipe out the side of a sprint car with a side exhaust motor, but that's a poor option for a spec class.

The $100 claiming rule isn't bad, but with everyone using different motors, you know one brand will perform better than others. Once everyone finds out what those are, those without will have to buy new (read: the fast ones) motors to keep up.

I think with a spec class, a blanket motor choice is the best option, as long as there is a decent national supply of them to go around, and there isn't a chance of them getting discontinued in the next year. I'm a big proponent of spec class racing, so I'll be following this closely, and continue to look for better options, myself.

Does anyone know if OS plans on releasing another low cost engine option for .12s?

[K Stevens]

Good news as far as I am concerned...OS is releasing a new rear exhaust .12 motor, the 12TG

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p.pgm?&P=PR&I=OSMG1986

Hopefully this motor will be similar to the discontinued 12TR, which in my opinion is one of the best .12 motors that was available.

[rj14]

Good news as far as I am concerned...OS is releasing a new rear exhaust .12 motor, the 12TG

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p.pgm?&P=PR&I=OSMG1986

Hopefully this motor will be similar to the discontinued 12TR, which in my opinion is one of the best .12 motors that was available.

It isn't even close in rpm range to the TR....sorry, I think it will be considered the replacement for the redhead. there isn't anything on the os site about this engine, but just on tower's site, this one doesn't have the oomph of the TR.:(

[Doug Carter]

A replacement for the redhead, at exactly twice the price... that's disappointing, for sure.

[rj14]

it is tough to say if this is being considered a replacement for the redhead or not.....it doesnt exist on the os website, rather confusing it is???? based on the numbers Tower gives...it falls more in the power range of the cvr i believe.

[Dlan44]

Del, with the inexpensive side exhaust motors, how has header fittment been with those in a sprint car? Are there off-the-shelf headers to buy that will allow a GT pipe to fit with no modifications to an Enforcer or similar sprint cage? I recall CRD making a header that was slightly extended to get a pipe out the side of a sprint car with a side exhaust motor, but that's a poor option for a spec class.




Doug, all I can say is that I have seen CustomWorks sprints with side exhaust engines, but I haven't payed much attention to how they did it. That issue has been a major concern for me.
Maybe we can get someone to test one of the new O.S. engines. The numbers (except for hp.) looks close. Though higher, the cost is somewhat reasonable, and it will go down. Making them breathe through a mugen header and an Associated pipe while allowing the red heads any header, and a aftermarket head while using the Associated pipe may equalize them. I hate to penalize the guys already running the red heads. I think the smart thing is to mandate the red heads until they get hard to find, then introduce an alternate. Maybe the cost will go down by then.

[K Stevens]

It isn't even close in rpm range to the TR....sorry, I think it will be considered the replacement for the redhead. there isn't anything on the os site about this engine, but just on tower's site, this one doesn't have the oomph of the TR.:(

I believe it is just that, roughly a rear exhaust version of the CV...and is definitely much lower powered than the TR, but for most local weekly racing even the TR has too much power for most racers to begin with. I totally understand that this motor won't win any major events, but if it is mild and reliable it could make a great motor for the average local racer.

I really wish they would bring back the TR, but you can wish in one hand and...well, you know. I guess I'll just run my TR till it finally gives up and hope that pistons and sleeves are still available. Maybe I'll stock up on some while they're still available.

[Doug Carter]

Good plan.

We're watching the exact same things happen in highly evolved real formula car classes in the SCCA (Formula Ford & Formula Continental). As long-out-of-production spec motors grow harder and harder to find, the price goes up, and the masses who own these motors already become more and more resistant to change or upgrades to the class. That's the one true problem with spec classes based on one mass-produced product—when that product stops production, the class is endagered. In this case, FF is not making any attempt to change and the class numbers are showing it, and FC is implementing a new-tech motor and the class is growing again.

Because this sprint class is so young and not fully developed yet, there is time to change and adapt without too much pain. Fortunately. Personally, a drop-in, rear exhaust slide valve carb motor that fits into the car with little or no modification (remember, this is an entry-level or budget class meant to be easy and cheap, but competitve) appeals greatly to me. I think for a new motor, a $150 price tag ceiling is as far as I would want to see it go. Anything more, and you're too close to running an open sprint class motor. The $80 CZ was perfect because of the price and availability. A $100 motor would be ideal, but I haven't found anything that looked interesting in this price range.

Knowing that the lifespan is now limited on the production of this redhead motor (and supporting parts availability), this may be a road block for anyone considering this class right now. I know I'm at a crossroads trying to make a decision, myself. Finding a new legal alternative quickly would be a big help, for sure.



Hmmm... :confused:

[LUKE SLABONIK]

while the sh engine are under a 100.00 they offer a 3 port turbo that i have been running in a ntc3 latermodel while ive only put a gallon thru the engine it has perform flawless with plenty of perfomance so in keeping with a spec engine class a 100-150 dollar range you would have a wide range of power options i would rather see it be a one engine spec in the price range to keep things closer but policing what is done internally by the consumer i.e port work polishing etc is gonna be tough

[rj14]

Like Luke said, policing internal engine mods will be tough. and once again it brings up the claimer debate, one I know a lot of people are against because you know what will happen, one guy will be an excellent driver w/ skills to set up a car..... ultimately this guy will get claimed every race because people won't accept that they got beat on driving skill, and he will quit!

I am glad I am not the one faced w/ making rules for a spec class!:D

[Doug Carter]

The way I feel about claimers is simple... if I am beating everyone week after week using LEGAL motors, and someone claims my motor for the claiming price, I'll go buy another one and win next week doing the exact same thing. If the motors are all stock (like they should be), there won't be enough variance to make much of a difference from one week to the next.

In fact, if people keep buying me new motors, I'll never have to replace the P/S myself. :D

Then again, if people feel the need to cheat in a spec class, it will be pretty obvious to everyone that the motor isn't stock/legal. All it takes is once to have an illegal motor claimed, and you won't see it happen again.




Much ado about nothing, if you ask me. Run Open Sprint if you want more power and massaged motors.

[joe_d]

We run the `redhead` class at phoenix with much success.A simple answer is a $25 dollar claimer teardown fee.The protester puts up $25.The house gets $5.The claimee gets $20 for gaskets etc.When he is legal he keeps the $20.If not he is asked to take a vacation for a while.A periodic header removal at the end of the night keeps the headers legal.We have had no problems so far,an illegal engine could be easily identified by the sound/rpms.
On another note,the new OS tg still works as a spec motor.Even a spc sprint is a $600+ plus car overall.$150 for a reliable OS engine with OS parts support and equal racing is still a good deal.Not to mention the rear exhaust slide config would allow racers to easily swap from outlaw to spec setup.Part of what makes spec work is the lower horspower saves money on tires/drivetrain not just the engine purchase.Just my .02 cents.

[Doug Carter]

Excellent post, Joe. Thanks for the input.

[joe_d]

Quote from OS

Item No. 11380. This engine comes with owner's ENGLISH manual, new OS Glow Plug No.8, 12 D Sliding Carburetor and one exhaust seal.
The OS 12 TG Series engines are newly developed for 1/10 scale R/C cars. They are rear exhaust engines designed for sport use. For easier handling newly designed 12D carburetor is equipped, and also No.8 glow plug is supplied. They have mild and smooth accelerating characteristics which are most suitable for sport runsOS Max 12 TG-P 0.7ps/28,000r.p.m. Practical r.p.m.Range5000- 30,000 r.p.m.Displacement0.128 cu.in (2.1cc)Bore0.543in.(13.8mm) Stroke0.551in.(14.0mm) Weight7.45 oz. (211.3g)

[Dlan44]

We run the `redhead` class at phoenix with much success.A simple answer is a $25 dollar claimer teardown fee.The protester puts up $25.The house gets $5.The claimee gets $20 for gaskets etc.When he is legal he keeps the $20.If not he is asked to take a vacation for a while.A periodic header removal at the end of the night keeps the headers legal.We have had no problems so far,an illegal engine could be easily identified by the sound/rpms.
On another note,the new OS tg still works as a spec motor.Even a spc sprint is a $600+ plus car overall.$150 for a reliable OS engine with OS parts support and equal racing is still a good deal.Not to mention the rear exhaust slide config would allow racers to easily swap from outlaw to spec setup.Part of what makes spec work is the lower horspower saves money on tires/drivetrain not just the engine purchase.Just my .02 cents.

The Phoenix spec class is what we used as a baseline. The only difference is trhat we don't have a header rule due to the great variances in Associated headers and how they fit specific cars. The class is VERY competetive, and anyone trying to slip in a Stroker can be easily caught. Modified engine performance is something the average guy can't keep in check. Besided the engines just sound different.

Joe, what do you think about the new O.S. as a alternate engine, running the Mugen header and Associated pipe. Allow them to run with the CV's and allow the CV's to run aftermarket heatsink heads? They may well be fairly equal.

[joe_d]

Just put it in perspective,tires are at least $50 a set.A engine for under $100 was nice but may no longer be realistic.Spec racing is currently keeping the doors open at our track not `outlaw`.

[Doug Carter]

Love the idea... now we just have to wait for the motors to arrive.

Might have to start building that Limited Sprint sooner rather than later. :D

[suga]

I haven't been on this website for a while. I'm curious why racers are not considering the OS .12 CVR side exhaust engine for an inexpensive class? Tower Hobbies is still selling them for $110.00. We use the .12 CRV on loose tracks with limited traction versus the more powerful .12 TR or .12 TZ in the off-road classes. :tire:

[megasaxon]

according to tower, the .12 CV is discontinued, but the the CVX(pullstart version) is not. Apparently there is still a large stock of them left....

[Doug Carter]

Isn't the CVR completely different from the CV? At $110, that's not a bad plan, unless that motor is being phased out, too.


Then again, if I could find someone to sell me a gas sprint car, that might be an actual issue... :rolleyes:

[TomC]

Yeah, the CVR .12 is a different animal. Chrome sleeve, better porting and all that. It is a VERY good engine but with the Assoc pipe can be somewhat of a "light switch" off the bottom.