Site Update: 10/9/06

[antilley]

DODC members:

I guess this as good of time as any to talk about the recent changes to DODC. Since the site came back up last month it has been under new management / leadership. Before moving any further, I want to thank Craig for all he has done for the site and what DODC has done for Dirt Oval Racing.

I had hoped that we could continue to run the site with little fan fair during the transition. We had hoped we could prove that we were capable of running the site and keep it going full bore with little in the way of issues related to the new leadership. But, we have a small problem that has created a bit of controversy and I am hoping we can put an end to it. I have also had a chance to make peace with a few of the “internet enemies” I have made over the past few years, (have a couple of more to go :) ) but, I wanted to mend those relationships first and let them know that we can and will run DODC in an unbiased fashion. But, the time has come to make the annoucment and bring closure to our current issue.

Disclosure time: It costs approximately $750 per year to run the site with the current package. Certainly we could change our hosting service and run a cheaper bulletin board and cut expenses. But, we have all grown to love the quality service and the feature rich software we run on the site.... and for now we are staying put. But, with that amount of overhead we must create some revenue to help offset the cost.

So, how do we go about creating revenue? The simple answer is to increase the advertising program. But to protect the investment dollars for our advertisers we needed to crack down on some of the content that we were seeing from users that were doing it for free. But, with the new rules for advertising it is clear that we have offended a few of our long term members. To steal a popular saying "it it what it is" --- and the site is not free and we need help paying the bills. No one involved with the site is here to make money and we have priced our rates accordingly. Our only hope is to break even.

Going forward I would also like to see concerns such as the advertising issues handled in a private section vs. the public forum argument. If you have a legitimate concern, please bring it to our personal attention. I will commit that the DODC moderators will offer you the same respect if we have an issue with something that you post. I do see some of the points that a few of our long term members have recently posted. If you give us time I am sure we can work out some of the issues that we have uncovered. So if we offended you as we implemented the new approach.... We Apologize. I look forward to hearing alternate suggestions / solutions on how to generate revenue while being less obtrusive to the individual needs of the many organizations, businesses involved in dirt oval racing. Tough problem to solve :) Good luck :)

Side note: Our future plans include creating a Hall of Fame section, a feedback section for classified purchases, and feature stories for the current racing series that have sprung up all over the country. Stay tuned for dates for these implementations.

We have also added a few moderators: Billy Caldwell (Lawtonlosi) and Larry Rarer (93TA). We would like to add someone from the West and the Northeast, so please let us know if you have someone that might be interested. It is a thankless job, but one that we must have in order to keep the site in order.

Thanks again to the DODC community for your continued support.

Dan Antilley
- Admin -

[Cole24x]

IMO everything is free on the internet you just need to look in the right spot! you are currently running the most expensive forum software maybe if you move to a free one? Like http://www.phpbb.com (http://www.phpbb.com/) and the hosting issue http://www.freewebspace.net (http://www.freewebspace.net/) always has people giving away space you just need to find a reliable one.

[solly]

IMO everything is free on the internet you just need to look in the right spot! you are currently running the most expensive forum software maybe if you move to a free one? Like http://www.phpbb.com (http://www.phpbb.com/) and the hosting issue http://www.freewebspace.net (http://www.freewebspace.net/) always has people giving away space you just need to find a reliable one.

wow, everything is free on the Internet?

[antilley]

Cole24x -
Here is the trouble with moving to a different solution: We thought the same thing until we put our heads together and thought through the issues with the other solutions that are out there:


Example of a cheaper hosting site: TDODC operates on an annual budget of $100 per year. It runs PHPBB and uses a different hosting company. During the day we have 'lag' periods. We have had our server crash on several occasions. We had our SQL database down for a couple of days last year. You call in and you get a guy that knows less about the internet / hosting than my grandmother. You get what you pay for. This site has grown to the point that we can't afford to have anything less than superior hosting capabilities.

Also PHPBB does not have features that V-bulletin has (attachment management, management diagnostics, granular controls for user groups, etc…) --- sure you can hack it up and work on it all day but we don't have time. 4 of our moderators run other sites as well.... we all been there done that.

Also -- check out the war that moderators are playing with 'spammers' with forums using phpbb….TDODC has to fight spammers everyday … with the amount of traffic we have on DODC it would be impossible to keep up. V-Bulletin costs more for a reason. Our hosting costs more than cheaper organizations (Ipower, poweb, etc...) but we have GREAT bandwidth per server… .we have no unwanted pop-ups, and if something breaks they know how to fix it.


Dan

[Doug Carter]

IMO everything is free on the internet you just need to look in the right spot! you are currently running the most expensive forum software maybe if you move to a free one? Like http://www.phpbb.com (http://www.phpbb.com/) and the hosting issue http://www.freewebspace.net (http://www.freewebspace.net/) always has people giving away space you just need to find a reliable one.



You get what you pay for when talking about web-oriented products.

In my 10-odd years of running internet discussion communities and websites, the software that drives the forums is just as important as a trusted host provider. The actual uptime on our server is 99.999% from the provider. All other DODC downs are purely self-inflicted. The software we use is PHP-driven, and supported by a wealth of knowledge base, as well as constant updates and customer service. It is costly to renew our license every year, but it keeps these forums safe and running smoothly. Open source is great, and I strongly support it in every possible way, but it is absolutely not the best option for a board of this size.

Open source PHP options such as phpBB do not only have little to offer in the way of customer service, they also are slow to improve and rely heavily on the user-based programmers to "hack" new features. That particular forum software is clumsy, hard to administrate, lacks any real user features of importance, and shows daily why it is FREE for anyone to download and use. It's a great solution for small, low traffic boards and organizations that don't need a lot of power or features, but after testing it for 6 months on another site, I couldn't tear it down fast enough.

Free is not always better.

[Cole24x]

You probably are right since I’ve only been in charge of small websites/ forums, so free hosting and free forums are the best thing since sliced bread. It seems to me you guys are trying to make this into something more than just a “forum” witch will cost more money/time but in the long run you could get a lot of sponsors. I notice that the front page of this website is blank maybe selling space on the home page or having someone sponsor the news stories you guys plan on doing in the future.
Just a thought…

[Animal]

im not sure what the issues are, so what ever you decide we will all just have to live with and deal with.

Im a forum Moderator over at a gamming site. and this site isnt even half of what that is.
Dirtoval.com (http://redirect.alexa.com/redirect?dirtoval.com)

dirtoval.com

Traffic Rank for dirtoval.com: 1,325,947

Reach per million users:
http://client.alexa.com/common/images/shim.gif
Today 1 wk. Avg.3 mos Avg.3 mos. Change
- - - - 0.65 http://client.alexa.com/common/images/down_arrow.gif 55%

Source http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=dirtoval.com

the site im a Moderator at www.aaserveradmins.com (http://www.aaserveradmins.com)
Reach for aaserveradmins.com: http://client.alexa.com/common/images/whats_this.gif (http://www.alexa.com/site/help/traffic_learn_more#reach)


Reach per million users:
http://client.alexa.com/common/images/shim.gif
Today 1 wk. Avg. 3 mos. Avg.3 mos. Change
4.5 4.5 3.25 http://client.alexa.com/common/images/down_arrow.gif 53%

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?compare_sites=dirtoval.com&range=6m&size=medium&y=r&url=www.aaserveradmins.com

[antilley]

Animal:

I now have the site you shared bookmarked (thanks!) ... it appears the hosting package for the site you moderate is very similar to our current package from a costing perspective ... (assuming they are hosting with the company that is advertising in the forum you moderate)
and DODC is currently loading 40% quicker than the site you referenced. (based on the numbers they are self - reporting?) I have not seen that load time data before so and I have no way to validate the info they are posting and I don't do math very well :) I do think it is a good reference point to validate a hosting company. Again thanks for sharing.

If anyone is curious on the latest stats for DODC: (Hit count based)

In September we were up 28% from September 2005

In October we are forecast to reach an all time high on hits:

***Expecting to go over 4,000,000 hits for the first time with an average of: 135,000 hits per day. Hits can be misleading but it was a good quick number to demonstrate an increase in site usage. End of the day, the site is growing and we must plan accordingly to handle the additional traffic.

Thanks again for the support.

Dan

[Doug Carter]

Im a forum Moderator over at a gamming site. and this site isnt even half of what that is.

What's the point, though? They pay for their forum software, the exact same amount as vBulletin (actually more), and the largest server package they sell is still smaller than what is available from our host provider. We're not looking for new providers at the moment, because there is nothing broken here. We have a solid solution. Are their cheaper solutions? Sure, but at this point, nothing has presented itself cheaper, safer and with more service and support to warrant taking the time and effort to make massive changes to the hosting setup of this site. We're happy with vBulletin, as it can handle sites 100x the size of this one (like rctech.net), and still be easy to manage and moderate.

I think Dan's announcement is more to let everyone know what is going on in more detail, and not necessarily a call for new solutions.


Thanks for the input,


d

[93TA]

cole,

just a warning on those free hosting deals. we had used one for over a year and it went pretty well until one day when the host decided to fold up shop, and we lost everything. that's the problem w/ free, is they are under no obligation to continue.

[Animal]

Sorry Doug

Didn't mean to pee in your wheaties!

just putitng information out there, and some other recourses.

sorry to be intrusive.

Animal

Ps Antilly the page i posted earlier http://www.aaserveradmins.com/forums/style_images/1/stat_time.gif 0.5761 sec
Our members have made a total of 247,003 posts
We have 17,459 registered members

yup Dirt oval seems a little quicker, but (there is always a but). there is not nearly as much information loading on dirt oval as the site i posted.

[Doug Carter]

No, no offense taken. I didn't mean for that to come off as defensive. I've just learned that in most cases of technology, the K.I.S.S. method works well, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Ya know?

I have done things in efforts to reduce costs or to try to cut corners for clients, and it almost always ends up in disaster, and we wind up going back to our original plan. I'd just hate to see something changed, just for the sake of cutting a few corners to save a few bucks, unless there was a definitive improvement to be gained along the way (speed, efficiency, technology, support, features, cost savings, etc.). If we could make it better, I'm always all for it.


It's all good. :D

[racer34v]

what about a paypal donate button? i see a couple sites that have theses and they seem to work, cfxpaintworks.com & rcracingextreme.com are two that come to mind.

i mod this site http://www.shorttrackthunder.com/

we use the phpbb software and havent had any downtime or hacks / spams knock on wood in the past year. granted we only have a little over 300 members but it seems to be fine.

[Dlan44]

As a user and a Series Director, the improvements are GREATLY appreciated. ALL of us here that enjoy this hobby want to see it grow. DODC is a MAJOR player in that effort. Far too many times when someone brings up costs, others point the "you are trying to make money on us" finger. If ANY site makes a few bucks based on operation costs........so what. The biggest cost factor is TIME. None of these guys are getting a salary for running this thing or putting up with US! If they were to be paid (as moderators on commercial sites are), DODC couldn't support itself. Many of us donate our time and money to trying to make this hobby grow. These guys do to. The improvements I have seen here are awsome. My hat is off to you guys. Keep up the good work.

Our biggest challenge in life (or this hobby) is survival. Anything beyond that is Gravy. These guys are going for the Gravy. Not for themselves...............FOR ALL OF US!


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