TZ 5 port caution

[smitty]

I am aware of a possible problem with the new OS TZ 5 port engine.

The piston and sleeve seem to have a VERY short life span.

After 5 break-in tanks and 3 tanks for a practice session, the piston and sleeve seem to be very loose. The motor ran a day of racing with motor in this condition, the motor would not idle correctly and flammed out with out notice.

Remove piston and sleeve, the piston slid all the way to the top of sleeve with no resistance.

Before you post; yes, it was broken in properly, yes, the air filter was fitted correctly w/oil, the fuel was good with a good % of oil, no, it wasn't abused during any of the processes...etc..

The is just a heads up on the motor.

The piston and sleeve felt good when new, 2 weeks ago.

[Animal]

thats not the first time i hear of this. that is the reasoning for my post here http://dirtoval.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12425

[Doug Carter]

Hey Chad, just for reference, how did you break in the motor?

There are a hundred different ways to break in a motor, and I am wondering what method you used. Noth that I think you did it right or wrong, I'm just trying to determine how I should break mine in.

[apurplez28]

Chad maybe you should have locked the piston in place with a screw driver through the exhaust port when you put on your fly wheel...I hear that helps extend the life of motors;)



chris

[Doug Carter]

Ouch. :o

[latemodel13]

I started using a blow-dryer to preheat the motors before starting. If it doesn't help piston life it will surely help the rod on start-up.

[axis]

That odd. There are a few of them around here and all are running just fine. One of them is in a funny car running on 50% and running quite well I might add and still has an awesome pinch. It was in a sprint car before that. He has had is since they went on sale at Dinball. Maybe it was a fluke thing or maybe they had a bad batch or something.

[Dlan44]

Wes knows how to break in an engine.

Wes, what kind of temps was the head/case showing when racing?

Is this the .12TZ or .18TZ?

Could have OS went back to the AAC piston/sleeve from the ABC? I have heard some rumors to that effect. It would be interesting to see how long a correct pinch will last on it. How tight was the engine New?

[axis]

Lets talk about the one in the drag car because its the one I have the most info on / experience around..
TZ 12 5 port
It was sooooo tight new it had to be heated to turn over.
When he had it in his sprint at the series race at Indy it was overheating bad. Like 280+ but I think alot of that was due to not enough break in and the P&S was still very tight.. After a few more tanks the temps started norming out to around the lower 200 degree ranges.. Especially after some needle adjustments. He has now put it into his funny car for some test runs. I know this isnt a drag site but, he is pulling low 2 second passes in a 12 funny car. Low like as in 2.02, with a gearing change I bet he can easily get under 2 seconds.. Thats running pretty good for a 12 funny car around here. The motor sounds as though it has insane top end rpm. Reminds alot of a Pixi but tuneable.. lol

[Dlan44]

That's wierd................

Sounds like a flaky P/S........

[intimidator]

http://www.hobbyservices.com/
call these people. they do the warranty on os engines. explain your problem and see if they will warranty your engine. all you need is a sale receit on the engine. something came loose in my engine and got on top of the piston. they sent me a new in the box engine within a week.

[axis]

That's wierd................

Sounds like a flaky P/S........

Whose ours or smitty's?

[John Binz]

Lets talk about the one in the drag car because its the one I have the most info on / experience around..
TZ 12 5 port
It was sooooo tight new it had to be heated to turn over.
When he had it in his sprint at the series race at Indy it was overheating bad. Like 280+ but I think alot of that was due to not enough break in and the P&S was still very tight.. After a few more tanks the temps started norming out to around the lower 200 degree ranges.. Especially after some needle adjustments. He has now put it into his funny car for some test runs. I know this isnt a drag site but, he is pulling low 2 second passes in a 12 funny car. Low like as in 2.02, with a gearing change I bet he can easily get under 2 seconds.. Thats running pretty good for a 12 funny car around here. The motor sounds as though it has insane top end rpm. Reminds alot of a Pixi but tuneable.. lol

I second that.. That motor screams:p

[Doug Carter]

Chad, what casting number/letter is on your motor mount tabs on that motor? Your motor seems to be the only one I have seen on numerous boards that is suffering from a shortened life. Everyone else running that particular motor is getting excessive and very strong life from it.

Chad, where did you get yours and when? I am wondering if it is an anomaly or something potentially more problematic.

[Eugene Ryder]

Doug, I don't think its Smitty's engine but a good customers. He was running it in Jacksonville last weekend and it kept flaming out. Now it seems like the piston and sleeve are way loose. Bad thing is this: Towers website:

This is the O.S. Max 12TZ ABC Pilot Crankshaft
5 Port Turbo Engine for 1/10 scale racing.
Meets IFMAR and ROAR specifications.

*** Due to the High Performance of the TZ Series Engines *** *** OS does NOT provide a warranty with this engine ***


Not sure if they can help with Mike Hannas engine or not...hope so.

[axis]

OMG I had no idea.. that blows.. I know we returned my TZ 18 and they sent us a brand new one..

[Doug Carter]

Hmmm... I wonder how it was broken in, still. Seems to be a rare example of a problem with that motor. I don't necessarily think the motor can specifically be pointed to as problematic.

[93TA]

os has been using that disclaimer on theire 'race' engines since the cvr .12 came out... but as long as u return it soon after purchase i have seldom heard of them refusing to fix/replace.

i know several people who have had .12 cvr's .18 cvr's and .18 tz's replaced under warranty even though the manual for all 3 clearly states there is no warranty.

[apurplez28]

I have not bought another o.s engine sinc I received one of the firt cvr motors. Thier initial run had faulty carbs and inner bearings. That motor was junk in two weeks. I will never take a chance with them again!


chris o

[smitty]

It is not my motor, just trying to find out what happened.

I had the motor imported from Hong Kong before it was available in the states, it was one of the first ones made.

I don't have the block here, just the piston and sleeve. It doesn't look like the piston and sleeve were even run, just some tracer fuel marks on the outside of sleeve.

I've contacted OS, we'll see what they say?

[Doug Carter]

Good to know. Keep us posted, Chad.

[John Binz]

My buddy order his from Hong Kong...that is the same motor that is in a Funny car right know.

[axis]

Apparently there are two versions of the TZ 12 floating around. One is a 3 port and one is a 5 port. Which one is his? blue head or silver head?

[Night Flight]

Recently I sent (3) cvr.12's into hobby services with the receipts and they rebuilt them and sent them back to me at no charge. But they also told me that if the same motors come back again there will be a sevice charge to rebuild them. One of them had a loose sleeve and all three had extreme bearing ware from runnig them racing lean. They recommended that I use a castor oil blend fuel because what I was using was breaking down and not doing a good enough job of lubricating the bearings. What kind of fuel have I been I using you ask? O'Donnell's 20%. So I am now in the process of finding out which blend fuel is available at my Local Hobby Shops to use any suggestions or input on this would be appreciated. Nothing like opening up a new can of worms. I will go now and put my flack jacket and helmet on and get ready for the posts on this subject. lol

[Doug Carter]

Odd. Recommended fuel for these motors included Byrons, O'Donnel and White Lightning. Keep in mind, too, that these new TZs are very different motors that O.S. has produced in the past. I don't know if what necessarily was rule of thumb in the past is applicable today. These motors are very similar to the high end RBs and Rossis.

Seems like everyone's black magic when it comes to gas motors is something completely different.

[rm-rf]

Recently I sent (3) cvr.12's into hobby services with the receipts and they rebuilt them and sent them back to me at no charge. But they also told me that if the same motors come back again there will be a sevice charge to rebuild them. One of them had a loose sleeve and all three had extreme bearing ware from runnig them racing lean. They recommended that I use a castor oil blend fuel because what I was using was breaking down and not doing a good enough job of lubricating the bearings. What kind of fuel have I been I using you ask? O'Donnell's 20%. So I am now in the process of finding out which blend fuel is available at my Local Hobby Shops to use any suggestions or input on this would be appreciated. Nothing like opening up a new can of worms. I will go now and put my flack jacket and helmet on and get ready for the posts on this subject. lol

I add 2% Sig castor to the White Lighting and to my Trinity Platnium.
Ends up being about 2 table spoons per gallon.

[axis]

We run 12% oil all the time. 30/12 to be exact.

[Doug Carter]

Isn't O'Donnell like 16% castor right out of the jug?

[Night Flight]

I am in the process of trying to find out. I was told to look at a fuel called red alert made by O'donnell. But if adding castor oil to what I use now is no big thing I may go that route. I have never had any questions about o'donnell fuel up to this point. It has always worked well for me. Doug I believe the regular O'donnell's is all synthetic lubrication. What I was told was that what ever fuel I was using the oil in it was breaking down.

[Doug Carter]

After talking for a while to the owner of the motor in question yesterday, the motor was, in fact, broken in old school by idling 5 tanks through it on the bench. Then idled around the track for two tanks before leaning it out. These motors really benefit from WOT ultra rich break-ins, and HEAT to seat everything correctly at the proper temps. This could be an issue, though it was most likely unrelated problems from foreign particles. ;)

I honestly don't think that there is anything inherently wrong with either the 3-port or 5-port TZ.

In my readings and research, there are few if any to experience any sort of accelerated wear or loss of power. In fact, many of them are getting stronger as they get more used.



doug

[smitty]

Recieved the TZ 5 port back today with the piston and sleeve and front bearing, all replaced at no charge.

I made no mention of problems with the front bearing when I returned it ... wonder why they replaced it, a problem with it?

No issues with it not being purchased from Tower.

Great customer support... even with no warranty implied or written.

[Doug Carter]

That's REALLY great news. Some guys have been a bit worried about the OS factory warrany on these new motors, as I beleive the instructions say that they are not covered by the standard OS warranty. I'm glad they took care of the issue, regardless of how it was caused.


:D

[travymoto]

Well I ordered one of these and tried to install it in my GSX last night, but had a problem. Using the CW GSX kit flywheel/clutchbell set-up, the crank shaft was not long enough. With the clutch nut tight, the shaft still needs at least a 1/16th to come flush with the flanged clutchbell bearing.

Edit...will try the shim kit!!!

[fastfred6]

I think what you need is the assoc. ntc3 shim kit-works like a charm

[travymoto]

A friend just said the same thing...ASC 2321

thanks

[brockh]

travymoto,
I have a TR in my GSX and had the exact same problem....shim kit works perfect...with out it the screw will somehow lock the clutchbell to the flywheel,thus your little car will not run if you decide to stop, found that out the hard way!!!

[apurplez28]

(In strong Irish accent) "put the dremel down, I repeat put the dremel down"



chris

[travymoto]

It took two shim kits to get the spacing right. The stock SG clutch nut is way out of wack. It was not drilled/threaded true from the factory(prob AE's fault), but it kinks the flywheel when tightened down.

I'll get a few SG NTC3 clutch nuts asap to sort it out. The last thing I want to do is blow an engine with and wobbley flywheel.

[lawtonlosi]

I saw a mention of fuel nitro / oil content. Im running redmax 30/12. I am new to nitro so I cannot really compare. But it seems to run good, doesnt get all gummy. They will mix it how you want it as well. I got 4 quarts through a promotional deal for free, but when I am ready to buy fuel that is where I will be spending my money.

[travymoto]

Are any of you guys w/ 5port TZ's running the optional 6.5 insert?

[brockh]

Travymoto,

I noticed you had mentioned about the clutch nut not being true.....i have the same problem there as well....it is very obvious how off center the hole/threads are in the clutch nut. Something AE should take care of?....probably not worth the hassel