Set up help

[stiffer]

Hello I was wandering if any one would be interested in giving me some help on set up and explaining why to change things? For instance if I'm loose coming out and you say put a little in the right rear why? I'm trying to learn what changes to make when I have a problem without always having to ask some one. So iff some one could explain to me how everything works it would be greatly appreciated. The problem I'm having right now is my vehicles are so loose coming out of the corner and on the power it has got me so frustrated I'm ready to hang it up and call it quits. I know part of the problem is the track because I have no problems with loosness at RVR or Monee. So if anyone could explain chassis set up to me and how to adjust for loose stuations I would really appreciate it.

[Doug Carter]

To keep things simple in your head, try this.

When a car gets "loose" in any part of the corner, one of the 4 tires on the ground is not getting enough traction to keep the car planted and pointed in the right direction. When this happens, you spin out. Coming out of a corner, all of the weight is leaning back on the right rear of the car, thus, the right rear tire is doing a majority of the work trying to get the car off the corner. If it doesn't have bite, you have the problems you are having now.

To solve this, you need to get that right rear tire some more traction from somewhere. The simplest choice is to try a different right rear tire, with a softer compound. A track that may be dusty might want a tire with more grooves, spikes or elements to achieve more tooth into the track. A smooth, moisture-full track might benefit from a slick or a wider tire.

The next step is to allow the car to generate more weight on that corner, by using a softer spring on the right rear, or reducing the amount of preload on that spring. You can also do this by stiffening the spring on the left rear or increasing the preload on the left rear. It's leverage, or weight-jacking, and will increase the corner weight on that tire that needs bite.

If the car is not even close to being stuc, I would try, in order 1) higher bite tire on RR, 2) softer spring on RR, 3) stiffer spring on LR. There are a lot of other things that will make that RR bite harder, but most of them are used once you are closer on the setup to "fine tune" the car.



Don't give up. Try different things, one at a time, and take a LOT of notes on what the changes do to the car. Trial and error is a big part of DO racing, and what works isn't always a perfect science.



Good luck,

dc

[apurplez28]

I just want to reinforce what Doug said about notes, Invest in a notebook and take as many notes as possible. I constantly look back to my notes from a few years back to get back to a basic set up I know works.

Write down everything you can, springs.oil , wing position ,what tires were on the car, camber, track conditions, air temp , and results.

You can never write down to much info and you can download a descent set up sheet from team associated.

When I started racing a few years back I made sure I practiced every time I could and I would just change each spring at a time just to see what it would do and write it down, over time you end up with notes to help you along.


chris osbrink

[bush1pa]

if the car wants to kick out comming off the corner when you hammer down try adjusting slipper.

jim

[stiffer]

Thanks fo the input Doug that is exactly what I did on my truck. I run a T3 with factory works towers and tc3 shocks on front and .71s out back I also have the battery offset to the left. I have modified the front shock tower and got the suspension to work better. Basicly I didn't like how far out the shocks were mounted it made the front very stiff even running asc. brown buggy front springs. What I did was copy the shock mounting holes from a gbx front tower to the center of mine and moved the shocks back in creating more leverage. This helped a lot with the front bouncing. I ran this truck at the Big O and took first in truck b main. I had bad luck in the qualifiers. But I consistantly was one of the only two trucks to turn laps under 6 sec and did I turn the fastest lap of the night. I wish I would have had better luck in the qualifiers so I could have had a chance at the A main, but oh well. Any way I know the truck works on a track with bite. And this is thew vehicle I have the most problems with on a looser track. But the first thing I tried was a tire with more tread on the right rear. That didn't help much. The I went up one spring weight one the left rear and that seamed to help more.

How does shock oil play into this? Also I have problems with my sprint car pushing bad at Monee what can I try with that? I run hpi slicks on the rear there and a set of very soft bald strikers on the front. How does camber link position affect this also?

Thanks Jeff

[stiffer]

I'm running slipper eliminators. It is just loose coming out on or off the power. The truck carries a lot of corner speed.

[bush1pa]

"my vehicles are so loose coming out of the corner and on the power"

sorry i must have misunderstood!:confused:

[go'nfast]

make sure you didn't eliminate the ability of the suspension arms to droop when the vehicle is lifted. I put shorter shocks on my truck, handled like crap, and found out that when all the weight shift went to the right rear, the left front and rear lifted off the table. This caused the spin outs that you talk of. Just friendly advice.......

[lugnut727]

http://www.rc10.com/racerhub/techhelp/marc/car_handling.html I hope this helps. Read it.

[DrOlds]

Lots of good advise in this thread.Like Doug said,the first thing would be to try a different tire(or insert) in the rear.If the car is good going in and in the middle you can also just lower the rear of the car evenly on both sides-it will affect the car more on exit than the entrance/middle.
If the front shocks were too soft it would probably be loose in the middle of the corner off power so that is most likely not your problem.Softening the rear shocks may help-this can also make turn-in less agressive.You can also try laying the rear shocks over more(in on tower).
Longer front camber links should help also.In general shortening the front link is a good way to get more steering in the middle/exit of the corner.Longer camber links(both front and rear) will make the car smoother and easier to drive.Changing the front camber may also help.

And they VERY first thing I would try-turn the steering dual rate down on the radio and see if it suddenly drives just fine.(This is so obvious that I forget it all the time!)

[Doug Carter]

...the first thing I tried was a tire with more tread on the right rear. That didn't help much. The I went up one spring weight one the left rear and that seamed to help more.

Usually, one step changes will help dial the traction in once the car is close. What you are facing is a drastic "off" from the right setup. Your car needs to get a LOT more bite on the RR, which seems to be the exact opposite of your problem with your sprint car at Monee (more on that in a sec). I would try a different RR tire until you get it closer. I would go to a stiffer LR spring, a softer RR spring, and lighter oil in the RR shock to get more bite. You may even look to a shock piston in the RR that allows more fluid to pass through faster. Try a bit more camber on the right, rear, too. Read the way the dirt is building/wearing/collecting on the tire to see if it may need to be flatter while in the corner. A touch more camber in the RR will flatten the tire out a bit, and give you more bite, as well.

Also, something to look at, and it does happen, is that if you have limiters in your shocks, and the car is leaning over onto them violently, the car may be unloading itself. When that happens, it upsets all of your weight transfer and traction. If the car bounces off the shock limiters or even the shock runs out of travel, the result can be a snap spin off the corner. I'd get rid of any limiters on a loose track.



How does shock oil play into this?

Shock oil is important on any track. Generally, a heavier weight in the rear compared to the front is a good place to baseline. Some say a very average 30/40 or 40/50 starting point is a good place to start, but for a looser track, I'd move to the lighter end of the oil scale. The lighter the oil, the more traction you will be transferring to the tires. You might even consider a 20/30 front to rear starting point, and progressively go firmer to get quicker. Get it stuck first, then worry about improving your lap times.



Also I have problems with my sprint car pushing bad at Monee what can I try with that? I run hpi slicks on the rear there and a set of very soft bald strikers on the front. How does camber link position affect this also?

Ok, this is the opposite problem. The rear tires are getting too MUCH traction in the rear and overpowering the front end. You almost answered your own question. The bald Strikers aren't giving you any bite. While the massive traction from the HPI slicks is nice, if you can't turn the car, they are hurting your lap times and not helping them. I'd try a harder HPI compound in the rear, and maybe even grooving up a pair of 33Rs to try to dial the rear bite back a bit. You may be better off using a rear tire that will give you more overall car balance like an original Striker or a CW Street Trac. A balanced car will be faster than a car that has massive rear traction. Remember, what everyone else is doing is a good starting point, but by no means the be-all end to your best set-up. Obviously, a stickier front tire is the best solution to this problem, but right now, your options seem to be limited, unless you have a pipeline for fresh & sticky Striker fronts.

Soften the front end to get more steering. It will also rake the car a bit forward (or less ride height in the front than the rear). A lighter spring/oil combo with a stickier tire (slick, maybe) will gain more steering. If you watch cars at Monee, many spend their entire time in the corners with a full wheel lock on the front end. The fastest cars there don't push. Watch them, and you will see what makes them so fast there. The less the front wheels need to turn/steer, the faster the car will be. Cars with the front end cranked all the way over in the corners are just scrubbing speed, and not turning the way they need to be.



Hope this helps, and wasn't too confusing.



doug

[Doug Carter]

Also, something you might want to try to combat the problem is to center your battery, and get rid of the inside weight offset. That will move some more static weight to the outside tires and should help the bite problem. Moving weight around manually can make the most drastic changes and instant improvement, and might be the first thing you should try.


Good luck,



dc

[stiffer]

On the sprinter I have as set of hpi 23s as well as 27s the 23s usually are to much and the 27s seem to be loose so I normally run a 23 on the left and a 27 on the right rear. The bald striker fronts seem to work better that the street tracs and I do have 2 brand new sets of front strikers one set has softer inserts. Just haven't had a chance to try them yet. The setup on the sprint car is what Mark Corns told me to run on it. HE is a good friend of mine he just never has time to help me at the track. He's always too busy with his new cars. And it gets old always bugging him. That is why I'm trying to learn for my self. I'll try some of the sugestions tomorrow night and see if I have any luck.

SET UP Truck
Front 30 wt oil #2 pistions
green buggy springs
left 2 deg pos right 2 deg neg

rear 40 wt oil #2 pisions
blue buggy left silver buggy right
left 2.5 deg pos right 2.5 deg neg


SET UP Sprint
Front silver tc3s
25 wt oil #2 pistions
left 2 deg pos right 2 deg neg

rear cut gold truck front springs
50wt oil #2 pistions
left 1.5 deg pos right 1.5 deg neg

My dual rate on the truck is set at 40. The front camber links are shorter than stock do to the custom works caster blocks the rear are also shorter than stock. That is part of how I got the truck to quit scrubbing corner speed. LIke I said before I only have problems on low bite tracks with the truck. It is actually a dream to drive on a high bite track. It drives very easily and carries a lot of corner speed. The track I'm having problems at is fine if I run right after watering. Thanks again for everyones help. If anyone has any more sugestions please post them.

[lugnut727]

Doug,
Question on your post..
Are you saying a car/truck gets loose under acceleration because the RR "doesn't have enough bite"???


Stiffer: Do you run Rear toe in on your sprint?? How tight is your Diff?? What type of sprintcar is it. Have you ever messed with front to back wing placement?

[Doug Carter]

Doug,
Question on your post..
Are you saying a car/truck gets loose under acceleration because the RR "doesn't have enough bite"???


Based on the physics and weight transfer of a car coming off the corner, the right rear has the most work to do. If the car is not hooking up after the apex and on throttle, then yes, the right rear does not have nearly enough traction.

[stiffer]

Hey eeveryone thanks for the help!! I actually go my latemodel hooked up last night, And had the fastest car on the track in the main. I just need to get better at avoiding people running in to me and pile ups LOL. The truck still went away when the track started getting loose. Oh well I'm gonna put the battery back in the center. Thanks to the info I helped set up two other cars also. Thanks a bunch. If anyone has anymore tips feel free to post I will still be checking.

[Jim S.]

On the T3, what is the rear toe? I run nearly the same set up (except .56's on the front)and changed to a 0 deg suspension mount . The truck was faster everywhere except exiting the turns it was a real handful (loose). I can see the benefit of 0 deg toe on a high bite track but my track is clay with a lot of organic material in it. So I currently run the stock 3deg susp mounts. Also, I run strikers with dual stage buggy foams and to get more grip on the rear I have grooved every other V on the tire. Definetly some good advice on this thread. I will be taking note of some of the things I have read here.

[mikejhs82]

Based on the physics and weight transfer of a car coming off the corner, the right rear has the most work to do. If the car is not hooking up after the apex and on throttle, then yes, the right rear does not have nearly enough traction.


To expand on this idea a bit. Would it not be prudent to "preload" the left side static weight. We are in a sense of the word, trying to fool the car in to thinking that while it is in the corners, it is actually going in a straight line, which everyone should agree is the fastest direction any car can go.

This would lean towards the idea that a soft left side suspension, and a higher left and rear weight bias would help us in this. For example if you were to set the static weight of the car so that say 60% (hypothetical) of the weight of the car is sitting in the rear tires. Also, that same 60% figure (again hypothetical) would be on the left side tires. So that in a sense the car is leaning to the left side when going down the straights.( as in full scale ). The car would transfer that weight ( physics of inertia) to the outside wheels upon entering the corner, theoretically making the car think it is going straight. We would set our suspension on the outside to help resist this force, hence the thicker oil and harder springs. We could also suppose the harder right side compound of tire and foam insert to help.

Stagger would help this situation in that it would help the car turn into the corner and rotate correctly at the apex to allow us full advantage. the thicker right side oils and springs would load the left side of the car when exiting the corner allowing the rear tires to get maximum bite, hence quicker acceleration off the corner??

Im gonna stop to let this settle in a bit..

thoughts anyone? Hope this helps the situation:confused:

[lugnut727]

Hi Doug,
If the car is loose from the apex out, the car is lacking in left rear traction(bite). The reason the rear end of the car kicks out is because the right rear tire is driving more than the left rear tire. So in order to solve this problem you need to put more weight to the left rear to give that tire more traction(bite). So it's not that the right rear is lacking in bite, but it's the left rear lacking bite. You agree?

Lets keep this coversation going, I like it!! thanks

[Doug Carter]

Hmmm, I'd debate that. In a traditional solid axle dirt oval car (real), that would be the case. Our cars behave more like IRS/differential asphalt cars in that they drive off of the tire taking the most weight transfer, which is the RR coming off the corner. A dirt car sliding sideways in loose dirt may have some more leverage to the inside, but for the most part, our cars get set up like a pavement car.

Coming into a corner, the right front bears the weight of the car and has the biggest effect on handling (turn-in), and coming off the corner, the right rear takes the most weight. Cars that lift the inside front wheel are not transferring weight to the inside rear. I have driven and seen many well balanced cars finish races, and some even win even after they had lost the left front tire. That's a cross-balanced car that is putting a LOT of weight on the RR. Think playground teeter-totter. That fat kid sitting on the RR is keepinig the skinny kid on the LF barely on the ground. It's all about levers and balance.

I can see how it would be reasonable to assume that one tire on the outside spinning more will drive the car into a spin to the inside, but with diffs in our cars, that isn't necessarily going to be the case. Cars will spin to the inside of a turn because the front end is biting harder than the rear end, and centrifugal force is carrying the back around in the natural direction it was originally headed. I have never seen a car coming off of a corner spin from the inside out, it goes against the laws of motion. One potential flaw in the thoery that the weight is mostly on the LR tire.


The things mentioned in that previous link are a lot of technical jargon that may or not really be applied to R/C cars in different environments. Some of those mathematics are interesting to read, but not very helpful in trying to get your car set up at the track. Good stuff to know, but real world applications of those formulas are just about pointless for R/C cars.


One guy's opinions. ;)



d


BTW, stiffer, nice work this weekend. I hope you took notes on what worked and what did not! :)

[mikejhs82]

I have to agree with lugnut in his explanation. By getting more traction on the left rear( in the situation being discussed) you also gain one very important thing. That is traction to BOTH rear tires not just driving off the right rear. ultimately you want both rear tires pushing the car as hard as they can exiting the corner.Your car will drive of the corner harder, gaining more speed quicker.

[Widdy]

I also have to agree with lugnut. If the car is "looping" coming out of the corner it needs left rear bite.

[Doug Carter]

Regardless of what or who you believe, to cure a loose car off the corner, you soften the RR and stiffen the LR. You need to get more traction in the RR. Standard, long-time tested, simple chassis tuning.

[stiffer]

I tryed stiffening the left rear and softening the right and it helped. I was amazed at how very little preload changes made drastic handling changes on my intimidator 10. One 1/8 inch clip out of the right and the car went from loose to pushing. So I pulled a 1/16 out of the right rear and put it in the left and this fixed the problem. Part of the trucks problem I think is battery placement so its going back in the middle I think this will fix the problem.

Lets keep this thread going I like hearing everyones set up tips, the knowledge, wisdom and combined years of experience of the members of this site is priceless

[Doug Carter]

Now that you see the effects of spring preload, you would benefit from threaded shock bodies. One small turn of a shock adjustment collar might be all you need to dial it in. There is a big benefit to being able to quickly adjust the shock preload right there on track.

Associated, Losi, HPI, CRC, Schumacher all make nice threaded shocks. Associated and Losi also offer longer shocks intended for off-road cars, if you are so inclined.

[lugnut727]

Hey Doug,
Your right about the link I posted, it is mostly technical junk. I deleted the wrong link and posted that one which is not the link I wanted to post...lol. Only wish I new where to find the other one again..lol.

Yes Stiffen the left rear soften the right rear to stop a car frrom being loose off..

I agree with the threaded shocks. I switched to threaded shocks on all my cars. It enables you to fine tune your car..

I too have seen cars loose the left front and/or pick the left front and run great. But that gets in to rear roll centers and/or soft RR springs, and weight transfer.

[dannyeight]

what size shocks and shafts are you using on sprint cars? Oil? associated? losi?

[RCB3]

I tried the ideas given on this thread this past weekend and it helped alot. Thank you all.
I've found that left siding the battery causes the car/truck to not be able to move up in a turn without looping it. I like to be able to move away from wrecks even if in the corner.

[Bigben]

hey doug I would really like to see this a sticky at the top of the page. this whole post makes setting a car up easier.

[Doug Carter]

Consider it as good as done. ;)

[Doug Carter]

I tried the ideas given on this thread this past weekend and it helped alot. Thank you all. I've found that left siding the battery causes the car/truck to not be able to move up in a turn without looping it. I like to be able to move away from wrecks even if in the corner.

I agree.

I know a lot of racers and companies have used batteries offset to the inside to great success on dirt oval cars, but I have never been a fan of that. To me, the key with offset chassis like that is to counter balance the battery mass on the opposite side of the chassis with radio, transponders, ESCs and whatever else you have to mount. An unbalanced car is never fun to drive. It might turn really well, but if I can't nimbly move through traffic with a stable race car, it's useless to me. I'd rather run 40 consistent laps and be able to control the car than 1 blistering fast TQ lap.

I still believe that your best bet is to get the battery as close to the centerline of the car, then balance your radio gear around the center of gravity, with a hedge to the left side of the car. Some weight to the inside of the chassis is good, but too much can be difficult to drive. Remember, your battery pack is the single heaviest item in your car, and you can move it around fairly easily. A very slight chnage in the placement of batts will be a MASSIVE change in handling.


dc

[DrOlds]

I have been having a problem with my new EDM not wanting to turn at all under power.Most of my experience has been with trucks and I wonder if things are a lot different with the high downforce body and little front tires.My truck is set up dead square-battery down the middle,no crossweight and Losi red springs f/r.It goes thru all 3 parts of the corner just fine.I started out with Losi orange springs f/r on the EDM and it pushed like a pig-went up to greens in the rear which helped but not enough.I put a rear sway bar on it and that made it worse! I kept turning the lf/rr spring collars down till they bottomed out and it helped but didn't make much difference-if I put a half a turn in my truck it makes a big difference.All that preload in it is making it a little twitchy. I set it up with the chassis level at ride height but I am wondering if at speed the downforce is putting a lot more weight on the rear and dropping it down too much.Am I wrong to think that I should be able to get the car pretty close with it square? Right now it has 1 deg.rear toe per side,zero anti-squat and very low rear roll center-about the same as the front.I have tried several different sets of tires-not a huge difference between them.The only other thing about the car that is a little unusual is the gear diff.Am overlooking something big here?


Here's a link to some pics- http://www.dirtoval.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11470

[Doug Carter]

First of all, get that #13 off of your car. ;) Just kidding.

Don't lose the gear diff. In my opinion, and I have been of this belief for a long time, that a gear diff is by far the best diff for dirt oval racing. No resistance, no slip, all drive, all the time. If you want to slip it, use a slipper clutch. Slipping a ball diff to act as a traction control device is a bad idea, but that's a different discussion. Gear diffs rock. But shhhhh, don't tell anyone.

Yes, with small front tires and a lot of downforce, your EDM will not handle quite like the truck. I am going to assume you are using buggy springs, and that the green Losi is firmer than the orange springs, which is the correct direction. One of the problems with buggy springs is they can be a little soft in the spring rates for a car not intended to jump. In your case, the rear has way too much bite (too soft).

Rule of thumb on shock collars: if you need more than a couple of turns to get where you need to go, change the spring to a firmer or softer rate. The nice thing about TC shocks is the HUGE selection of spring rates out there that are perfect for oval racing. I'm sure you can find some firmer rears for the Losi shocks.

The problem with the car is too much rear bite when the car is making accelerating weight transfer to the rear (off the corner, again). This is similar to the previous problem with a sprint car using sticky HPI slicks pushing hard on throttle. To counteract this, increase rake by lowering the front end and/or raising the rear end. You can also firm up the rear of the car by standing the rear shocks up into a more vertical position. Run them to the outside upper mounting holes and the innermost bottom mounting holes. This will also naturally raise the rear of the car, which will be a benefit to some degree. Remember, we don't want garish setup changes, just enough to make a difference on the track. You don't want .500" difference in ride height from front to rear. You'll feel small changes immediately, so do baby steps. You could use a rear swaybar, but they are really band-aids for problems, and better used as fine tuning tools.

Ideally, you're looking for as little shock collar-induced tweak in the car as possible (one spring collar jacked further down than the others). Use 4 different springs and 4 different weight oils if you need to.

You could reduce the slope of the center section of your EDM body, too, but that may be a bit drastic for now. Consider it a pretty large wing, and you can use it as a tuning tool.

Take your time, and don't make big leaps all at one time, or you won't know what the changes feel like on the track.


And take notes! :D



dc

[Doug Carter]

Wow, that was wordy. :o

Simply put, try these things:

Stiffer right rear spring
Stand up the rear shocks more
Heavier shock oil in rear shocks
Raise the rear end
Harder compound rear tires
Firmer inserts on rear tires
Shock pistons with smaller or less holes (rear)
Lower angle wing/aero/center section


Hope that helps...



dc

[DrOlds]

Thanks much for the "wordy" explaination! I love the gear diff-it's low maintenence,works great,and the whole assembly is $9.Thanks for confirming that more than a couple turns of the collar means change the spring-I have always felt that way too. I know that most people probably use AE springs so here is the Losi buggy spring chart for reference-

Losi 2" buggy springs-

2.5lb-red
2.9lb-orange
3.2lb-silver
3.5lb-green
3.8lb-blue
4.5lb-black

Losi TC springs start at 7.2lb.

Also our track is hard packed dirt but not clay and semi-smooth.Softer suspensions usually work better so they can "float" a little over the surface irregularities.I'll be going out for some practice tomorrow and post my results.Thanks again,Kris

[Dlan44]

I know this may sound dumb........but we tested it at the Winter Nats on a sprint. Gary McAllister makes beautiful bodies, but that big scoop creates lift. We talked to Gary about it and I beleive he may be making some for Dennis Klein with a flat hood.
On two Klein sprint cars we had a tight off condition. Turn in was OK, but nothing to brag about. During practice we removed the hood to refuel and didn't put it back. The car was like a different machine. Turn in was very good, and she came up off the cornere like it was suppose to. For grins, we put the body back on and it went right back to tight off.
In Phoenix, my son had the same problem. He came in, I removed the hood, problem solved. It may not fix the problem you are having(if the chassis is way off), but I bet it will make it better. Just look at the side view pic and you can see how it could lift at speed.
I don't know a easy way to test it on an EDM........and I know you don't want to mess up your Smokey Unick/Curtis Turner paint scheme(very nice).

BTW.....if you have the scoop cut open to catch some air..............it makes it worse.

[Doug Carter]

Great point, Dell. A quick test might be to take a small 3" x 5" of lexan with a simple .250" fold on the short end, and servo tape it to the back of your front shock tower, to cover up the scoop in the air. That very well may help a lot. Those scoops are cool, but unless you are using them to intake air to a nitro motor, they are very aesthetic.


dc

[lugnut727]

Interesting, I'll keep that in mind.

Dannyeight,
You were asking about shocks & oil for a sprint. I run an electric Customworks. I use TC3 shocks with stock shafts. I don't like longer shafts like .71's because in a crash the piston will bottom out on the shock cap.

To lengthen the shocks I use a heavey duty rod end that looks like a hiem(Sp). I also cut the white clip inside the shock down so its just one of the flat pieces. I can make two clips out of one regular white clip. this adds about .188 travel to your shocks. It's important you be sure that no burrs are left in the hole of the flat plastic piece. Also be sure NOT to clamp/hold onto the white piece by the edges. If you do it won't stay put in the shock. I recomend you practice two or three batteries after you do this to be sure you got it right. Also cut a few extra clips incase you should need one.

As far as oil goes I like heavey oils 60-80wt. Springs I like equal in the front and a split in the rear. ussually heavier in the LR, it just fits me & our tracks here.

I also modify my wing mount so I can move it forward and back. This produces huge changes in the car.

[TQT2]

Ahhhemmm, did you say adjust two corners of the car??? Not to start controversy.

I do believe you should only adjust one corner at a time...due to something called cross-weights. Now mind you I personally adjust one corner, but that's only in RC racing. I've done my fair share of racing in other forms and have saved myself alot of back-tracking in the setup department.

Now having said that; if you have a car that's tight in and loose off. I would only address the loose off condition. As that would tell me to add weight to the left rear of the chassis and by doing so, would remove weight from the right rear.... hence by taking weight off the right rear, your adding it to the right front....causing the vehicle to have more steering in and less steering off...which would correct the: (tight in & loose off condition).

This is my personal preference as I like to drive anything that sticks in the corner. I'm not a loose in - loose off kinda guy. I wanna know where I'm going in and out of the turns. :)

[JohnBoy72]

My dad was the set up guy but I did hear some of the guys tell me before taking my ill handling off the track for changes to drive it around the track in the wrong direction to see if the car handled a little better...there was a couple of times where we were completely off and it helped...

[RCB3]

When I setup my EDM and Truck I use a scale on each corner to help get it balanced to start with and then adjust it and see what the adjustments do.
DrOlds- Put some antisquat in it and see what will happen. It should make the rear stiffer under acceleration.

[lugnut727]

Hey Trouble, I men TQT2...lol.
You should always address the first part of the corner first. If the car doesn't work right going into the corner the rest of the corner is junk too, because your trying to make up for a poor entry. But If you can correct the car with one change do so. His adjustment to the left rear would be exactly what I would do too.

TQT2,
Whats going with the fair grounds?? I haven't heard a thing. Email me or PM me.

[TQT2]

Crash....ehhh, I mean Jimbo...lmao

Not to pick on ya, but if ya read my post the way I meant for it to be understood... it says adjust for going in...and coming out. Which most of us know if your lacking corner speed, you will have hurt your straight-away speed as well. (I probably didn't make it that clear for the lesser experienced racer)

I'm not sure what's going on with the Fair, I forgot to call Dave back....I'd like to try and help out with getting it prepped.

[mld469]

Cornering dynamics are all about weight transfer. If you're loose off (under power) you are not transfering enough weight to the rear tires under power. If you push off, you are tranfering too much weight under power. Tire selection is the first step, but using springs and shock oil to control weight transfer is what controls push or loose.

Same applies to push or loose entering the corner, you are either tranferring too much weight to the front tires (loose off power), or not enough (push off power). If you figure out where your problem is (on power or off, entering or exiting) you can have a good idea of what you need to do based on weight transfer.

This works for oval or road racing, but in oval you can work on only turning one direction. Front caster also has a big impact on turn-in, but that's another discussion. If you focus on weight transfer, you can figure out what needs to be done most of the time.

[Hazlett]

I have to disagree that this is a heavy right rear. Actually if you were to put his car on the scales you would see his issue, is more than likely, a very high WEDGE or CROSS whatever you prefer to call it.

When you have high cross this statically loads the L/R and the R/F......when this is done it makes the L/F and the R/R very light. Now once the L/F gets the initial grip to START the turn in the R/F takes over, shortly before the APEX the weight transfers the R/R and the right side tires are now carrying the majority of the load(under loaded here and the car is loose...over loaded and you are TIGHT) after the APEX stagger takes over and the caster determines when the weight is set back onto the rear tires. If you have a car that is R/R heavy, it will tend to be slower off the corner than a heavy static loaded L/R.

The Key in oval racing is getting OFF the corner, you even want a small push on entry, this will ensure that you are FREE off the corner.

Another tip...

Camber sets the timing of the weight transfer
Caster tells it how much to transfer

Tires are the almighty in racing....the man with a basic(neutral) setup with the right tires will win more races than the man with the most current ...up to date setup/chassis with wrong tires any day.

OLD SCHOOL thinking.....
Load the car with Left side weight and then put a soft R/R tire and R/R spring.
Result: Good in the corner slower off!!

New School thinking......
Statically load the right side(ex. low left side weight) add cross to make the L/R and R/F "HEAVY"
Result: little harder to get in the corner but a rocket off the corner. TIP...a little more stagger here or a stiffer insert will help cure the entry...then hold on!!
When this is done properly it will give the effect of driving a stake through the R/F tire and putting that stake in a slot....Once the car reaches the apex it ROTATES and is Gone!!!

These are just a few things to think about....also driving style palys alot into setup...just because Joe Blow has a T4 and he is rocking on this setup...doesnt mean that you will fly with it also.

Just food for thought!!!

OER

[rcokc]

I think both are saying the same thing, only in different words.

I would like to share an experience that I had lately with a CW-DD on a hard packed slightly powdered surface. The first qualifier was going great unltil about a minute left. The car became very loose coming out of 2 and 4. Upon inspection after the race, I noticed that the center spikes on the RR were completly worn off. I mean gone!!!!!!!!!! I put a fresh tire on the RR and continued with my second heat, the only change made was a fresh battery pack and a NEW tire. The same thing started happening again, 30-45 seconds remaining in the race, the sprint started doing the same thing. Again, the RR tire center spikes were gone, about a 1/8 - 1/4 inch bald strip down the center of the tire. The next new tire got a softer insert. The car made it thru the B main without "as much" wear, traction on that right rear was significantly reduced as the pins wore away.

[Hazlett]

The way I look at inserts in these RC cars is just like Air Pressure in the big cars.

The harder insert was acting like higher air pressure....creating a smaller contact patch, becuase the tire couldnt deflect...compress, squash...how ever you would like to put it.

When you went to the softer insert....

It should have alowed more contact ( why no wear on the middle) and the car should have been a little better towards the end of the run.

When you have more contact patch on the ground you have more surface to heat up....usually will start a little slower( due to the slow build up of the heat(larger surface to heat)) and then as it gets the heat....it should really start to hook up and go!!

With the harder insert (smaller contact patch under load) it heats up very quickly, when this happens it is good early in the run and then the tire overheats sooner....equaling a slower car at the end of the run.

A fix for this with out changing the insert...... increase the static load on the L/R

Hazlett

[nosgsvette]

What do you do when you run the same set up week after week, the car handles the way you want, but the track has started to get bumpier. Now im still getting threw the corner great but the unavoidable bumps on the straightaways upset the car so much that it sends it out of control. Other cars im racing seem to glide right through the bumps. Im runnig a customworks EDM/ Latemodel W/ out of the box set up with 40 in the front and 50 in rear with stock pistions. ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????
???????????????????????????????????????BUMPS?????? ????????????????????????????
??????????????????????BUMPS??????????????????????? ?????BUMPS????????????????

PLEASE HELP MY BOUNCY RIDE :confused:

Brian Wirtz

[twisted]

try a lighter oil.

[nosgsvette]

ill give it a try ,,,, thanks:p

[mgtmadness]

I have an rc10 Terminator with 40 degree kickup,unknown caster blocks, .56 rear shocks with just installed tc3 .36 shafts in back. .89 bodies w/ .71 unobtanium shafts in front.all running 50 weight oil,#2 and #3 associated pistons,track master tires,slipper elim.,unknown rear spring(pretty stiff)and RF gold spring,and LF red cut truck spring.
my problem is,is that i feel like the car isnt turning enough(Suspension set-up),i hit the wall pretty hard and go over it.it just does not wanna turn.i let off the throttle slightly.it still pushes hard to the wall.
Any suggestions?should all the shocks have #2 or #3 pistons,and 50 weight oil?i do not have threaded shocks.sometimes if i do make it thru the corner the rear is a lil twitchy,and it will sometiimes turn tight on corners 3 and 4.corners 1 and 2 no steering pushes hard.

Anyway the car pushes hard ,what can i do to fix this?pushes coming out of the corner not going in.
New shocks?
i run the car at Radio Hill Raceway in dundee,NY.

[Fast RC 007]

...

Good luck, I'm pretty new too.

[mgtmadness]

I have a mix match sets of rc10,rc10b2,rc10t2 springs,and i could cut truck springs to make fit.how much softer in the rear?

[JimmyD]

Hey Mgt..
What springs were on the car when you got it??
Wht I ask is... I watched Greg get it out last season off the shelf and turn 57 laps with it... My opinion is talk to Greg, he built the car...He will help you...
See ya Saturday...
JimmyD

[mgtmadness]

yeah i might.thing is i had to change the setup some.fill the shocks,bleed them,get them all good,set it on the track,then shocks get super full of air bubbles.

[Fast RC 007]

...

[Mike Elam]

any of you guys have a good starting point for a cw gbx on a very highbite track that is around 180 to 200foot driveline? we run mainly bsr xxpink front and rear.

thanks
Mike Elam

[CSB]

Now having said that; if you have a car that's tight in and loose off. I would only address the loose off condition. As that would tell me to add weight to the left rear of the chassis and by doing so, would remove weight from the right rear.... hence by taking weight off the right rear, your adding it to the right front....causing the vehicle to have more steering in and less steering off...which would correct the: (tight in & loose off condition).

This is my personal preference as I like to drive anything that sticks in the corner. I'm not a loose in - loose off kinda guy. I wanna know where I'm going in and out of the turns. :)

I realize this is kind of an old thread, but I feel my input can help racers who may have questions in the future.

If you are is tight in and loose off, cure the tight condition first. Being tight going in means you are turning the wheel more and really working to get the car through the corner. By the time you reach the corner exit, your car has broken over, and you are now faced with a loose condition. Less right front spring is one of the best ways to cure being tight going in. You can also put a sitffer left front spring on the car to promote more weight transfer to the right front.

Always fix handling problems as they happen, as in fix corner entry first, then work on the middle, finally fix exit. You cant get off the corner fast if you cant get in fast.

FYI - Crossweight isnt nearly important as bite. When my cars, either real or r/c go on the scale, bite is the first thing Im looking at.

[LEFT TURN]

Hey guys wondering if someone could give me some help. I have a t4 and race it on dirt oval. Problem i'm having is that it pushes in the corner. I've tried tires springs oil weight. I've even slowed the truck down it still pushes bad could it be that the rear diff is too tight. If it is the rear diff what should I set it at. I have it set at the factory setting now a 1/8 of a turn out from tight. THANKS

[The Jed Show]

Read CSB's post above as he addresses the problem you're having. Does it ride pretty level front to rear? If it does, try a little rake (nose lower than rear). Front toe-out could help you too. I've never run a T4. Hopefully others can give you more specific advice.

The factory diff setting should be ok, I doubt that's your problem.

[mcastor11]

Hey guys wondering if someone could give me some help. I have a t4 and race it on dirt oval. Problem i'm having is that it pushes in the corner. I've tried tires springs oil weight. I've even slowed the truck down it still pushes bad could it be that the rear diff is too tight. If it is the rear diff what should I set it at. I have it set at the factory setting now a 1/8 of a turn out from tight. THANKS

Blue springs in front, silver in rear. 30 weight oil, not much pre load, just enough to get arm level. Worked on mine. I left the diff the same as AE recommends. I locked the slipper down. One thing I found out, Mcallister make a 40's ford body for the T-3 that works good on the T-4 as far as corners go.

[redneck racer]

awesome thread, keep it going. I drive a tc4 latemodel. It has been really loose and I'm going to try some of the things mentioned. Thanks!!!

[rawlmaddog]

Fr sshocks-12lb spring 45wt oil Hing pins lower hole Caster blocks 25 Wheelbase short
Front arms level at ride height Battery full left Rear shocks 7lb 35wt oil Make dogbones level at ride height Running the car as midmotor

[RCRacer]

Guys I have a Suspension Tuning Guide I put together a few years ago when I had RCRP up and running. If you find it useful please let me know. If you feel the need to dispute or disagree with any of the info it contains please let me know.

It can be freely ditributed, I never charge for it..

Check out the link..

S F Racing Tuning Guide - http://www.rcrproducts.com/suspguide.doc

[markstolz]

Hi guys I need some help with a setup on a tc3 this is what I got
tc3
one way up front
200mm raliy kit
foam tires2xpink
jr servo
novac gtx
birdman 19t

inside high bite clay
220 drive line
10 to 12deg banks

Help with a basic set up will be great help
thanks mark

[RCRacer]

Ok guys here is my methodology for a basic setup no matter what the track, no matter what the car. Anyone who feels that I am wrong or would like to argue my methodology please do it in a polite manner..

First there are a few aspects of a basic setup to understand.

Regardless of what kind of car or track your racing, you have to decide what gear you want to run by what the track demands. Lets stay focused on ovals. No matter what surface, dirt, concrete, asphalt.

One is gearing: OK, take the longest straight away. What gear will get you from “on the gas” point leaving the corner to the “let off point” of the next corner. Say your car does pull all the way from “on the gas” to “let off” with no trouble. OK, now lets try to go to a taller gear, higher final drive ratio and see if the car “tops out” before your let off point. If it is still accelerating at the “let off point” then go taller yet. Eventually you will either get the car to top out, where it stops accelerating before you let off or the gearing will create a “loose on power” condition where the cars rear tires loose traction when you come out of the corner and accelerate the car wants to break the tires loose. OK, then you have to either shorten or lower the final drive ratio or learn how to “peddle” with your finger. Once you have figured out the gearing you can move on to other aspects of chassis tuning

Another is cornering: What makes a car turn… Anyone? The ability to take one type of force and use it against another. When you let off and want your car to turn it has to be able to over come the force it has of going straight ahead. Weight transfer is essential in most circumstances. So how do you get weight to transfer. Your cars suspension must be free and able to allow the weight to move.

First thing I tell my drivers who complain about a car not handling is to tear it down and make sure it is all straight and true. Meaning if you lift an arm with no shock and or spring that it will willingly fall, etc. Ok, so the car is checked out and free, lets move on.

Shocks: in our case are actually oil filled piston dampener and consists of a few parts that can cause trouble. Make all of your shocks are in good working order, seals intact shafts straight, pistons all the same side to side and I use the same front to rear to start.

Springs: My method for finding out what spring rate to use is sort of weird, but bare with me, it has worked for me and others whom I have shared this with. First, empty and clean all of your shocks. Install a slider tattle tale o-ring on the shaft and put your softest springs on all the way around. Make sure that your ride height is ok, if not go up one spring rate. Yes this is done with no oil in the shocks. OK, now put on tires you know are good and run the car. Make sure to set all of the tattle tale sliders to a point so that they will indicate the compression of the shock. I usually will run the car like normal coming out of a corner easy and then down the straight away and into the next turn then stop to check the tattle tales. If the shocks are bottoming out the springs are too weak and the spring rate should be increased. Eventually you will find a spring rate that will allow for the most weight transfer without allowing the suspension to bottom out. That’s your starting spring rate. Oh I record all of the measurements of my tattle tales when I am doing this to help with the next step.

Shock oil: Shock oil or dampening fluid, slows down the action of the shock by resisting the movement of the shock at a given rate. The lighter the oil and larger the piston holes the lower the resistance of the movement and the faster the normal rate of teh spring will control the shock. I start with a relatively low weight oil in the front and rear of a car. The same on both sides of the front and the same for the back. Again I set my tattle tale sliders and run the car. You should notice the car seem to calm down from the first step, not bouncing all over the place. Now this is where you have to be able to drive consistently and see if the car reacts similarly for each lap. I again record the sliders and do the same method as before. Once I find an oil that allows for maximum weight transfer but doesn’t let the car bounce all over the place I am at a good starting place for final tuning. This should be a point where the car feels pretty good and handles decent.

Thus a good starting setup. From here you will have to tweak for tire grip, power plant output, track conditions, driver skill, etc..


I hope this helps..

[markstolz]

Wow thanks for the info. I will try all of it. The last 2 races I got the car to work to were I can hold it down the whole race but thay will get me out of the turn. I droped down 2 on the gearing and burp the throttle going in to the turn to try to get more powerout of the turn. and thay will still out pull me. All the other drivers run the same gearing so it must be in my setup.

I will run
30/64
or
28/64

and we turn 49/51 laps 4min
Thanks for all the help mark

[rawlmaddog]

Lets take a vote what is the best front shock angle? Straight up,Laid down,or somewhere in between.:rolleyes:

[creekside r/c]

depends on car.....custom works gbx shocks straight up....terminator laid down

[ksg47]

so how does the tie rod play their part in setting up a car? like what are the good verses the bad things of having longer ones to shorter ones

[DIRTDEVIL3]

WOW!! I wish I would have noticed this post last summer. The wealth of knowledge shared here is priceless!!

[creekside r/c]

usually the longer and straighter the betterwhen u start putting them at angles is when camber gain,effects performance .its not always bad in certain conditions....but lets be honest the name of the game is to try to keep the most tire to the track as possible....ok take the left rear corner of ur car and u take the insde end and move it down a hole or 2 in the bulkhead when u compress the suspension it pulls the top of the tire in....ok now when u shorten the length it reacts faster....now the exact opposite u move the end up a couple holes now it pushes the top of the tire out and when u shorten the length the top of the tire reacts faster....example if the corners are slick move the left rear turnbuckle up to gain more side bite in the corners...now the length is dictated by the corner entry speed and amount of deceleration a slow corner longer length ....sweeping corner shorter length....and remember this will affect forward bite down the straights usually bad

[shoemaker]

where can sway bars figure into these set-ups for electric cars?

[ksg47]

what exactly is ackermann what does it do and where is it best to run it at thanks

[Doug Carter]

where can sway bars figure into these set-ups for electric cars?

They work very well, on all types of cars. Some people prefer to not run them at all, letting the springs, pistons and oil do all of the adjustments, but in many situtations, thy can be a big tuning aid.

Using a rear swaybar or "anti-roll bar" will allow the inside or left rear tire absorb some of the lateral cornering forces of the rear traction. This will decrease rear bite or loosen the car up, but make the rear traction smoother and less "grabby." Adding an swaybar at the front of the car has a similar, but opposite effect: it decreases steering, but makes it much smoother and more consistent.

I use a swaybar when the track has so much bite that I want to decrease traction on one or both ends of the car without going to a stiffer spring or heavier oil.

[Doug Carter]

what exactly is ackermann what does it do and where is it best to run it at thanks


Ackerman angle is the difference in steering angle between your two front wheels as they are turned. A large Ackerman angle would be, if while entering the corner, the left wheel was turned in more than the right. A small Ackerman angle (or theoretically none) would be when both wheels are turned at the exact same degree throughout the steering travel. You can adjust Ackerman by adjusting the steering linkages/mounting points.

Because the path that the inside wheels travel through a corner is a smaller radius than the path that the outside wheels travel, a little Ackerman is desirable. More Ackerman angle will give you smoother steering, while less Ackerman will make the car more aggressive entering the corner.

Truthfully, most experts (real racing chassis dynamics) would argue if Ackerman adjustment is significant at all, because of inside tire traction & drag, slip angles, bump steer and other factors that keep this setting from being a major factor in chassis setup.

I prefer to have a small to fair amount of Ackerman in the steering, and then I leave that setting alone completely.

[newbie27]

I have few questions on setup, I used to race karts and when setting up the front end I would square up the right side,and then set toe useing the left front keeping the right front square with the kart. Why do you have front and rear toe on RC cars, does anyone use this method on RC's? Also what does haveing a wider front end than rear of car affect the cars handling? Thanks Tim.

[Speed]

:tire: How do you make banked turnes. I got a dirt track in my backyard and I tried to make a good turn but it came out like crap. Any sugestions?

[davisg]

This may have been discussed in here but i didn't have enough time to look for it. This weekend on my CW GSX it was running fine then the diff came loose so i tighten that back up and ever since that the thing will take off to the left every time i touch the gas, i tried to loosen it up some but still didn't really help that much. The cars right rear end wants to keep coming around just with a little gas.

Is there a fine line on how tight the diff can be or is there something else causing it? Or is the torque control spring to tight? Any help is much appreciated because it just is not fun to looping it everytime.

And no the wheels do not hit the nerf bars already check that.

Thanks

[Doug Carter]

Sounds like it's time for a diff rebuild with all new parts. When it loosens up, that little plastic locknut in there that holds the thrust washer setting is pretty much useless from then on. Your best bet is to put the Associated $6 rebuild kit in the diff and start from a fresh canvas with all fresh diff and slipper settings, per the instructions.


d

[loopedout]

We have an RC10GT EDM running on a slick, dry DO. The problem is no matter what changes we make, the rear end wants to come around coming off the turn. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[loopedout]

ok we got it figured out, remove rx and servos, R&R car with 1/8 late model, voila! problem solved.

[newbie27]

OK guys i got a problem with entering the corner and spinning out, here is my setup on a CW GSX sprint,

Front:
LF: blue buggy front, 15 degree caster, 1 camber, .71 shock with 40wt oil no preload
RF:blue buggy front,15degree caster, 1 camber, .71 shock 40wt oil no preload
LR:blue buggy front, 3 degree toe in, 1 camber, .89 shock 50wt oil 1/2"preload
RR:blue buggy front, 3 degree toe in, 1 camber, .89 shock 50wt oil 1/4"preload

I have the XL long arms installed and have the long shock towers installed, RR has the longer dogbone to make it same length as RF.
This is a high bite track long straights(Peabody KS). I started the night running wide ribs on the front but changed to a less agressive tire and it helped lessen the turn in causeing me to spin on entry, I am running holeshot rears. It was better after changeing front tires but still cant get the corner speed I need. I also should add at the end of the night I noticed the LR tire had no dirt on it at all and the RR was covered.

[93TA]

what are you running for toe?

add some preload to rf, and take off the rr

go back to stock 25 caster blocks

might also want to go thinner oil in the rear and or stiffer springs in the front

[SLIDER Racing]

I have a DD CW Intimidator that I run with a late model body! Not matter what I have done to the car its ALWAYS been loose off unless I never lift! However thats not always possible! I just ordered a set of Dynotech adjustable toe rear arms! Do think this will help solve some of the problem?

[newbie27]

I am running heads up in the front, I also am running the on center king pins. Thanks for the info it is greatly appreciated, I will give these changes a try.

[newbie27]

Thanks 93TA for the tips, car handled like a dream last night, put the stock 25 degree caster blocks back on it and also ran Losi x-2000 in the rear and it was a rocket coming out of the corner, and as long as I didnt over drive the corner it was great on entry also.

[highline]

I am new to the 1/8 scale scene and dirt oval for that matter. I am loving it more than I could imagine. If there is anybody out there that could give a general direction or any idea as to what some of you may be using in your 1/8 buggies that would be awesome.

I am looking to see what diff oil and shock oil set-ups some may be going with also if you could point me in the ball park what you guys are setting your camber adjustments.

Thanks a whole bunch in advance. Great site!

[Butch Clay]

Slider, way back when I ran my DD Intimidator I had the same loose off condition. The thing that finally fixed it was a front sway bar, probably in the .075" wire dia range. I now have one with the really offset chassis and it works fine without the sway bar.

[Hoodlum11]

i would run the heavist oil you can get for the front end i use 120,000. then 60,000 for the center. then for the rear diff i use the lightest oil you can get i use 700. For shocks i use lightest shocks for the left side of the car and the heaviest on the right side.

[Flat Tracker]

We have an RC10GT EDM running on a slick, dry DO. The problem is no matter what changes we make, the rear end wants to come around coming off the turn. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hello I am new to the forum but to answer your question, maybe. Are you using foam tires? if so you should true down the inside edge to remove some steering{traction} because it sounds like the front is biteing too much.

[Flat Tracker]

Anyone run a DM-1 1/7 scale car?

[highline]

i would run the heavist oil you can get for the front end i use 120,000. then 60,000 for the center. then for the rear diff i use the lightest oil you can get i use 700. For shocks i use lightest shocks for the left side of the car and the heaviest on the right side.


First, thanks. Sounds a little heavy. Were you running that in your buggy? I am completely new to the dirt oval scene so dont take my questions personal, just trying to learn. I really appreciate your input. Since the introduction to dirt oval I have been asking questions like this and have heard that some may run this type of set-up..(120 front,60k center..etc,.) My local hobby shop said to run (7k front, 5k center. and 3k rear). Why is there such large differences between the two set ups?


What weight oil were you using in your shocks?? Springs??

What other kind of set-ups are people running, every little bit helps? I am new to oval but very familiar with nitro racing.

[TJSRCN]

Hey Highline


Just Wanted To Know Where You Are Running Your 1/8 Scale,what Tracts,i Run Family R/c,and Outback In Greenville.have U Tried Them Yet,great Bunch Of Guys.

Tj

[highline]

Hey Highline


Just Wanted To Know Where You Are Running Your 1/8 Scale,what Tracts,i Run Family R/c,and Outback In Greenville.have U Tried Them Yet,great Bunch Of Guys.

Tj


Hey Tj,

I have raced a couple of times @ Family R/C and once @ H&H, havn't tried Outback. Sounds like a nice track though. Trying to get a good set up going. What would you suggest?

[Rodney]

Hi Doug,
If the car is loose from the apex out, the car is lacking in left rear traction(bite). The reason the rear end of the car kicks out is because the right rear tire is driving more than the left rear tire. So in order to solve this problem you need to put more weight to the left rear to give that tire more traction(bite). So it's not that the right rear is lacking in bite, but it's the left rear lacking bite. You agree?

Lets keep this coversation going, I like it!! thanks
I agree lugnut.. I'm new to rcr but grew in sprints car racing.. Have realitves still racing aprints. If the car is loose, more left rear.. If th e front end pushes more righ rear. If we wanted more left rear we wedge the right front. and vice-versus if we are in the ball park:checkeredflag: :checkeredflag: Rodney

[___Cory___]

http://www.speedysracingparts.com/rc10.htm

Anyone try one of these things? It is a conversion for 1/10th pan cars to use touring and truck shocks. I'm curious to see if ANYONE has bought one of these, tried it and/or had positive results. It's a relatively low cost to go from paved oval to dirt oval if it can be made to work well.

[rcralphie]

High fella's im new to the thread but run oval in saint louis tryin to make my car better for next year does any one have any set up advice for nitro tc3?:twocents:

[FULLT1LT]

there should be a lot of stuff,type in nitro tc3 under search,hope this helps

[rcralphie]

Thank's

[BobRooney]

Currently I am running indoors(on pavement because of weather) on a very tight and short track, with foam tires. A small change in the spring settings is causing a drastic change in the overall handling of my car....From spinning out in the corners to hopping thru the corners and sometimes even catching and bycycling over. When my setup tends to hop is my best setup and if I drive it easy enough I can get it to work for me...but I cant figure out how to improve it and make it smoother...any suggestions?

[needthat22]

Currently I am running indoors(on pavement because of weather) on a very tight and short track, with foam tires. A small change in the spring settings is causing a drastic change in the overall handling of my car....From spinning out in the corners to hopping thru the corners and sometimes even catching and bycycling over. When my setup tends to hop is my best setup and if I drive it easy enough I can get it to work for me...but I cant figure out how to improve it and make it smoother...any suggestions?


ok first thing is i would check all suspension pins and turnbuckles just to make sure there is nothing binding, as for the hoping that says that either the rear suspension is to stiff or the rear tires are to soft. the spinnng out in the corners is due to the right front spring being to soft. the "catching and bycycling that you are refering to" is called traction rolling that is from too much traction pretty much the right front tire is too soft. what set-up are you running shock oils,springs,tire compounds? hope this helps also what kind of car are u running edm terminator based car, 4wd latemodel, sprint car?

[BobRooney]

Sorry for the late reply
I'm running a losi xx-nt with the oval conversion kit and associated shocks(the short ones for the TC3 I think) I have 55rf/45lf/45rr/15lr oil weight...with yellow associated front springs and gold RR, and green LR springs. I have centerline "silver" foam tires on the front and back. Thanks,

[sprinter8]

hey guys, im new here and to sprint racing. i have the cw gbx enforcer. right now all i need to know is how to get more weight on the left front? im eating up the right front like crazy, the car handles pretty good, tho it does push a little much coming out of the turn.

[Todd Putnam]

hey guys, im new here and to sprint racing. i have the cw gbx enforcer. right now all i need to know is how to get more weight on the left front? im eating up the right front like crazy, the car handles pretty good, tho it does push a little much coming out of the turn.

Cars work diagonally:

- Increasing preload (turning the shock collar toward the spring) on the LR or RF increases crossweight or "wedge" in the car, increasing LR and RF weight. This will make the car tighter or push more.

-Increasing preload on the LF or RR will decrease the crossweight or wedge, increasing the weight on the LF or RR. This will make the car looser or turn more.

-Decreasing preload has the opposite effect. :thumbsup:

[sprinter8]

thanks todd

[hrnts69]

What affect does Short Shocks have on a "Loose" track? (Buggy Tires) Do you want long shocks on a "loose" track or is short shocks better?

What affect does moving the turnbuckles have on a car? What does lowering/raising them on the shock tower do to the cars handeling?

What affect does shock angel have on a car? Should the RF & RR Shocks be all the way to the right hole on the rear arm?

[curtisp]

Here's a site (http://users.pandora.be/elvo/) with some set-up info. There's plenty to read. Hopefully you will find what you're looking for.

[hrnts69]

SAWEET!!!
Thanks Curtisp

[A&J RACING]

DOES ANYONE HAVE SUGGESTIONS FOR SET-UP ON NEW RC10GT2?:confused:

[terry14]

this thread is great. i have always used the same theories with my rc cars as i did when i raced imca modifieds. then i read this thread. things that i still don't understand worked for me last night. my nitro late model has always been extremely loose in the corners. i have tried alot of spring combinations. after reading this i took a little of dougs advice and a little of my thoughts. put a lighter spring on the left rear, a heavier spring on the right front, a rear sway bar and WOW. the car is planted in the corners. it goes against all i was tought about big cars, but it worked for me. the only thing i have come up with is real cars have a solid rear axle, and rc cars have independant rear suspension. maybe that is what makes the changes so different. thanks to everyone who has put ideas in this thread.

[BobRooney]

I'm having issues with my late model Losi hopping thru corners when I'm on the gas. I've checked and rechecked my car because I thought I had to be binding somewhere, but I'm not. I run AE T3 shocks with blue springs and 35wt oil in the front and green springs and 35wt on the LR and 15wt on the RR. My tires are Dirt Master (foam) silver in rear and front. Any suggestions would be great!
thanks,

[hrnts69]

What affects does a Sway Bar have on a Nitro Truck? If i put one on the back will it tightin the truck up? What happens when you put one on the front of the truck?

A&J RACING- I run a XTM Nitro X-Cellarator, which is a knock off GT2. The only thing ive done is changed the camber to +3 degrees in the LF, -3 degress in the RF, +2 degrees in the LF, and -2 degrees in the RR. And changed to a stiffer spring in the RF also. Other than that, placed all the shocks in the outer holes on the bottom A-Arms, and then changed the preload on the adjustable shocks according to the track. Placed 3rd in the B-Main at Big Bills Money race with a underpowered engine! The truck handeld awesome for me.
Hope that helps you some.

SBS Motorsports

[rednekdirtoval]

could u go to a heaver weightoil in the shocks?

[Driver]

I'm new to dirt oval racing of course. I own a tc3 4wd late model and I'm building a 1/8 scale late model car. Can any of you guys give me some setup tips. Like a basic set up. What i'm looking for is ride height, front and rear toe and camber settings, shock oils and diff oils. A friend of mine mounted the losi stinger 1/8 late model body tonight. Graphics and paint this weekend. Also what tires should I run? Are the new losi rally tires a good choice? Thanks in advance!

[plipitkc]

First thing, Go to your local track and check the rules along with what tires, springs, settings, etc everyone is running. You'll be surprised how helpful the L8M drivers are.

A loose track setup (midwest track) could be 120k frt, 10k rear, 40wt shock, set your springs so the chssis doesn't dig into the track or roll over in the turns.

Later

Dr Phil

[rccar306109]

-go to bumpsandjumps.com and click on "oval help"
Its so good I printed it out and Im gonna bring it to the track.
-Take notes
-make small changes and see what it does
-dont make too big a change then, change something else to correct it.
-crashing puts you down a lap or two. if you see a crash I would rather let off the throttle and drive around it than take the risk by going fast and trying to avoid it and the marshall running on the track.
-I love to sometimes tweak it a little and just drive it the way it is, puts more challenge into it and its kinda more fun.
"fish tail off of every corner, turn right to correct it, keep going do it again 100 more times,
Hope this helps,
(and the part "keep it the way it is" doesn't break your car, its just something I do.

[Driver]

Thanks for the info and help. I went to www.bumpsandjumps.com (http://www.bumpsandjumps.com) and I don't think it took me to the right site. I'll try http:// and see if that works. Thanks again. Thanks to you to Dr. Phil.

[Driver]

Thanks for the info and help. I went to www.bumpsandjumps.com (http://www.bumpsandjumps.com) and I don't think it took me to the right site. I'll try http:// and see if that works. Thanks again. Thanks to you to Dr. Phil.

Nope, that didn't work either.

[mizeracing]

its www.bumpsandjumpsrc.com (http://www.bumpsandjumpsrc.com)

[rccar306109]

its bumpsandjumpsrc.com sorry about that

[Driver]

Thanks, got it.

[Speedy]

What affects does a Sway Bar have on a Nitro Truck? If i put one on the back will it tighten the truck up? What happens when you put one on the front of the truck?


SBS Motorsports

[/URL]

Before we talk about sway bars think of your vehicle front to rear traction.
The more front traction the less the rear traction and the opposite is true.
Vehicle Balance.

Sway bars will take the leaning away from your truck at the loss of traction.

So if you install a sway bar on the front of the truck it will loose steering due to
the sway bar moving the weight of both springs at the same time thus taking out the sway of the chassis.

SOMETHING TO THINK about:
Now you can split the springs lbs. weight in half and add a heavy sway bar.

Also, a lighter sway bar the more bending the less spring movement between both springs.

What ever you do just keep in mind its all about front to rear balance to your truck.

I hope this helps.

Speedy
[URL]http://rcsoftware.web.officelive.com/default.aspx (http://photos.hobbytalk.com/showphoto.php/photo/31511)

[Speedy]

Hello I was wandering if any one would be interested in giving me some help on set up and explaining why to change things? For instance if I'm loose coming out and you say put a little in the right rear why? I'm trying to learn what changes to make when I have a problem without always having to ask some one. So iff some one could explain to me how everything works it would be greatly appreciated. The problem I'm having right now is my vehicles are so loose coming out of the corner and on the power it has got me so frustrated I'm ready to hang it up and call it quits. I know part of the problem is the track because I have no problems with loosness at RVR or Monee. So if anyone could explain chassis set up to me and how to adjust for loose stuations I would really appreciate it.

Everyone has there own driving style and feel for what a setup should be.
The stop watch or lap time will tell all for sure.

Doing is learning and the biggest help that I can give to you is not give up, and
download this setup guide http://rcsoftware.web.officelive.com/tech.aspx

Think as your vehicle gos through the turn of entering,middle, exit, is it pushing or
loose.
Then make one change and you will know if it better.
Also, don't forget to have FUN!!:checkeredflag:

[racegoer711]

Regardless of what or who you believe, to cure a loose car off the corner, you soften the RR and stiffen the LR. You need to get more traction in the RR. Standard, long-time tested, simple chassis tuning.
Where ever you put the stiffiest spring , that is the tire you are giving more traction to. So softening the RR is "basically"the same as stiffining the LR . So yes , you are giving more traction to the LR. That is SIMPLE BASIC chassis tuning.

[latemodel13]

That's wrong. A softer spring will allow more weight transfer to that tire giving it more load and more traction.

[Teamt2c]

What is the normal Set up concerning ground clearence?

[gnail]

Hi was wondering if there is any one out there runnining this same truck on clay dirt oval track looking for a set up?maybe some of you will share your set-up with me? thanks in advance

[Speedy]

Everyone has there own driving style and feel for how the vehicle needs
to handle.

Here is a guide that you can use to help you get started.
You can download them free from here:

http://rcsoftware.web.officelive.com/tech.aspx

[Blue Duck]

What about different weights of shock oil? Were do you start on choosing what oil to put on each corner? How much does a rough and bumpy track change that choice.

Foreign to me reguards, thanks.

[swindellfan]

ride height or ground clearance, I use 16mm in front and 17mm in rear. Level is a balanced car. nose lower means more turn in, rear lower means more push. Weight transfer is the factor. Most people say level ride height and then tune from there.:checkeredflag:

[Teamt2c]

thanks,

[rangerjkb]

Trying to find setup for OFNA 1/8 nitro Latemodel (droop, shock oil, springs, collar setting, ride hieght, etc). Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

[dr_destructo]

I read thru this entire thread looking for a discussion about caster. Any thoughts? I have 20 deg, and 30 deg for my T4, but still running the stock 25deg. I know I bought a T4 that had been ran on carpet and it has(I believe) the 20deg. I assume to take steering away? So, would the 30 deg be an advante for dirt?

[DJM]

I have played with front Castor. And have found that less Castor give more tire contact with the surface of the road. And therefore more steering. Where as more Castor give less steering,or less contact with the road. But when the Castor is increased It makes the car steer straighter over uneven surfaces. Where less Castor makes the car more twitchy or steering wonders and harder to keep a straight line. So by changing steering Castor you are always going to have a trade off. Also more caster on one side or the other, causes the car to pull to the side with the least Castor. Less Caster your car will turn in a tighter radius. More Castor and your car will turn in a larger radius. So you can control how your car turns through the corners and goes down the straight-away. Hope this helps.

[kevkirch]

this thread has alot of good info.

[ucl48]

Everyone has there own driving style and feel for how the vehicle needs
to handle.

Here is a guide that you can use to help you get started.
You can download them free from here:

http://rcsoftware.web.officelive.com/tech.aspx

I want to thank you so much for posting this web site. i downloaded the oval set up guide followed the adjustment guide and it really worked . I laminated the sheet and keep it handy during testing and the car responded just as the guide said. Very impressive.

[tomkat]

Everyone has there own driving style and feel for how the vehicle needs
to handle.

Here is a guide that you can use to help you get started.
You can download them free from here:

http://rcsoftware.web.officelive.com/tech.aspx

I cant get this do download .. possible to just have somebody open the dirt oval set up guide and then send me it please? thank you

[B24]

I cant get this do download .. possible to just have somebody open the dirt oval set up guide and then send me it please? thank you

Sent you a PM with the file.

Keith

[RCRacer]

Anyone interested in a copy of my tuning guide can now get it from www.rcrproducts.com (http://www.rcrproducts.com) clicking the link on the front page. Or go directly to it at www.rcrproducts.com/rcrpsusgid.doc (http://www.rcrproducts.com/rcrpsusgid.doc)

if you have trouble you can pm me or email me and I will gladly send it out.

Todd Johnson
R/C Racing Products

[Speedy]

I want to thank you so much for posting this web site. i downloaded the oval set up guide followed the adjustment guide and it really worked . I laminated the sheet and keep it handy during testing and the car responded just as the guide said. Very impressive.

Thank you.

I'm glad to help.

Having fun is what its about and I love racing R/C.:checkeredflag:

[wade]

Been racing carpet for too long :confused:
Couple quick questions
T-4 truck, lowered kit on it, foams, 13.5 2s hard pack dirt, no loose dirt, no banking

spring weights where should the heaviest spring be located RR?
softest LR? what about the fronts? same on both fronts?

Cross weight %'s what are you looking for?
When I scale the rear. LR Heavier or RR Heavier
same question for the front

Thanks in advance
Wade

[Richie95]

That all depends on how you feel the car is doing. The most common way to do a basic setup(for me that is) it to start out with the RR spring heavier than the LR spring. Only by a lb or 2. The fronts I try to leave even to start with. From there I adjust to my driving comfort. Now I can tell you that for the past few weeks i've been running my left side springs heavier than the right side springs on my EDM. So if you end up having this happen, dont worry, give it a shot and see how it does. As far as a starting point for springs, i'm not really sure where to go with that. I havent run a truck in years. Also, no matter what i've races, wether it be a full size car or RC car I've ALWAYS run with the LR total weight heavier than the RR total weight. Hope this helps a little bit. Good Luck:checkeredflag:

[latemodel13]

I'm running rf 8lb lf 6lb rr 5 lb lr 7 lb. Shock oil makes a big difference on how it drives. If it turns too Quick thicker oil will tame it down some. You will need to do a couple things to make it turn . Take out the rr toe by drilling a hole where the screw holds the hingepin in . This takes the rr to 0 toe. Change the frontend to inline axles and put a rear swaybar on it. I made spring spacers to use rc4less springs. You need to play with the front camber to get even tire wear on the truck. Hope this helps.

[SQURILL s7]

just got a 10 th scale slider any advice on what those should be set at

[lowridinjuggalo1]

Everyone has there own driving style and feel for how the vehicle needs
to handle.

Here is a guide that you can use to help you get started.
You can download them free from here:

http://rcsoftware.web.officelive.com/tech.aspx


for some reason i cant seem to get this to work when i click on the dirt oval one it send me hear http://www.quick-download.info/openo...FQLixgod3x7LcQ any advise on this would help thanks

can anyone explain roll out to me thanks

[runninrich]

Hello everyone I just picked up an Ofna Sprint Car and I was wondering if anybody had a starting setup that they are willing to share

[CeO21]

Welcome Robert to DODC! You make get help sooner if you'll make a thread in the GAS/ Nitro section too. There are a lot of helpful Racers on DODC. Cecil

[rced]

for some reason i cant seem to get this to work when i click on the dirt oval one it send me hear http://www.quick-download.info/openo...FQLixgod3x7LcQ any advise on this would help thanks

can anyone explain roll out to me thanks

Try this link: www.rcrproducts.com/rcrpsusgid.doc (http://www.rcrproducts.com/rcrpsusgid.doc)

This link explains roll out well: http://www.dallas-music.com/rollout.html

[lowridinjuggalo1]

Try this link: www.rcrproducts.com/rcrpsusgid.doc (http://www.rcrproducts.com/rcrpsusgid.doc)

This link explains roll out well: http://www.dallas-music.com/rollout.html

thanks for the rollout info the link u gave me sent me to a suspetion tuning guide i was trying to get the software to download and it want.. the link u gave me is helpfull but not what i was looking ofr but will use it lol.. thanks marcus

[lowridinjuggalo1]

http://rcsoftware.web.officelive.com/default.aspx


this is the link to what im trying to download and it want work for me.. does anyone no how to work it thanks marcus

[rced]

thanks for the rollout info the link u gave me sent me to a suspetion tuning guide i was trying to get the software to download and it want.. the link u gave me is helpfull but not what i was looking ofr but will use it lol.. thanks marcus

Sorry, I only copied and pasted the link without testing it. Maybe the WebPage was cached. Here is the latest rollout download off of RCTech: http://www.mediafire.com/?rujni1tytmk

[JBM38]

Been a while since this thread has been used. What's new and going on in the set-up world for dirt racing?

[JBM38]

WOW nothing new happening in dirt oval as far as set-ups?

[Speedy]

......

[charlestown62]

Im looking for a start set up for a xxx sct late model track is hard and loss im running a 10.5 novak I added the tlr up grade kit any help I would be greatful.

[charlestown62]

Here is pic of car